TPA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream and Acetyl Propionyl

[Matty316]

Before I continue I just want to say I'm just looking for some more info and opinions. I'm not here to rant about the goods or evils of using Acetyl Propionyl, Acetoin or diacetyl in eliquids.

I've just found out that one of my favorite flavors from TPA (Vanilla Bean Ice Cream) contains Acetyl Propionyl. Should I be concerned? Have any of you stopped using this flavor because of it? Is the concentration of Acetyl Propionyl in this flavor particularly high or low?

Sorry about the barrage of questions I just want to find out more before I decide to stop using it or not.

cheers.

 

[Capt.shay]

Probably in more than one flavor you use. Should you be concerned? That is up to you. There is no way to discuss this without getting in to the whole good/evil debate. That is the point of contention here. There are dozens of threads in other sections about this whole debate and I hope we aren't going to have it here as well. This section is about making juice. Your choice of ingredients is up to you. We will try to help you make them tasty or you can also look at several threads here that use DAP free ingredients for alternatives.

 

[Lannie]

I just looked that one up on the Bull City site and it says it has "more than 1% and less than 10%" so it could be minimal or substantial, depending on your point of view. Capella's has a diketone-free version of that flavor, if you wanted to try it instead.

 

[Lannie]

There's also TFA's Vanilla Bean Gelato, which appears to be diketone-free as well. I got that flavor because the Capella's Vanilla Bean Ice Cream was out of stock (and still is, at BCV).

 

[Hans Wermhat]

FW has a Vanilla Ice Cream that's pretty tasty and D/AP free.

 

[Matty316]

FW has a Vanilla Ice Cream that's pretty tasty and D/AP free

cheers Hans I'll give that a try next time.

 

[Hans Wermhat]

It's not a vanilla BEAN flavor, but it's not bad.

 

[herb]

FW has a Vanilla Ice Cream that's pretty tasty and D/AP free.

FW Vanilla Bean IS not dieketone free , the pic below is from BCV's website , TPA's VBIC is also surrounded by a "caution" box .

I only use Capella's VBIC these days .

 

[Hans Wermhat]

But they DO have a "Vanilla Ice Cream" flavor that IS diketone free.

 

[Hoosier]

Should I be concerned?

My beautiful wife is concerned about the neatness of socks in my drawer. That's her thing, not mine, but it doesn't mean she is shouldn't be. (She will never get me to be concerned about the neatness of my sock drawer.)

Have any of you stopped using this flavor because of it?

No. I like what the flavor does and use it. I would be smoking if I didn't have great flavor from vaping. I like tobacco, real tobacco, in almost any format. A great flavorful vape is what allowed me to switch and prefer vaping to smoking.

Is the concentration of Acetyl Propionyl in this flavor particularly high or low?

I do not have any quantitative data and could not care less what the actual number is.

 

[Matty316]

Well having listened to what you guys think I can see opinioins are still very much split. I was always going to come to my own decision but just wanted to find out more and hear other opinions before I did.

I guess it comes down to why I stopped smoking and took up vaping in the first place and that was for health reasons. Is vaping something that contains Acetyl Propionyl something I consider an acceptable risk? For me it's not but this is only my personal opinion.

I'll start looking for an alternative which should be easyer thanks to you guys suggestions.

Cheers everyone.

 

[mcclintock]

I use some flavors with AP but I wish TFA would specify their stuff better. A chemical this important and the spec shows a 10:1 range!!!! And it's probably actually on the low end of that range, but unless you're willing to test it or have enough experience you can actually tell from taste you can't say. To be assured to keep AP below 200 ppm (sometimes considered a "caution" threshold) you can't use more than .2% flavoring.

Flavor West is the only flavor manufacturer showing test results for DA, AP and Acetoin to a high precision. Thay also tend to use only acetoin for their butter notes. No info on butyric acid is provided, however.

 

[SailCat]

You'll find FlavourArt's full disclosure here. Atmos Labs had Dr. Farsalinos advise them in the production of a full disclosure showing zero diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin although these Greek flavorings aren't yet available stateside. TPA/TFA does one as well although some of theirs do contain custard notes.

Flavor West remains suspect because they lied about the issue in the past if for no other reason. Here's their disclosure. Nature's Flavors certainly contain diketones but not diacetyl and they refuse to disclose information (give 'em a jingle & ask if you'd like: 714-771-2212).

Non US companies like Inawera and Hangsen are unlikely to pay for testing.

And the beat goes on. That Capella's VC1 is sure tasty though they don't disclose nothin' except to say the V2s are cleaned-up versions.

Hell, I vape FA Pandoro from their Kitchen (not for vaping) Line but do so in moderation 'cause that stuff is yummy!

Vape on!

 

[mauricem00]

this does present a real dilemma. I love cream flavors but diketone free cream flavors like TFA DK flavors seem a little bland compared to flavors containing diketones. OSHA has classified acetoin as a diketone because of molecular similarities. hopeful they will develop a good tasting safe cream flavor but till then I guess I will have to settle for bland cream flavors

 

[Jdurand]

I guess it all depends on if you see yourself being a life long vaper or if this is a shorter term venture for you. I started vaping to quit smoking, not to vape the rest of my life. I don't have a quit date for vaping yet, but I do plan to stop in the near future. With that in mind I don't worry much about the "bad stuff" as my exposure really won't be long term.

 

[Dixie1954]

@Matty316 - The site for Perfumer's Apprentice which is where TFA comes from has this as the component list in that flavoring >>> Perfumer's Apprentice - they have these for most if not all of the flavorings they make. Hopefully this helps.
Perfumer's Apprentice this is the whole list.