The (polite) Clone/Authentic discussion! :D

[schuff]

I don't know off the top of my head, but it was discussed at length in another clone vs. Authentics thread...i do know the company went out of business because of it. Also that the ..... user wasn't using proper batteries, and of course that was the makers fault...not the user for not doing proper research

I know every detail of that situation.

The company was Puresmoker and the mod was the legacy. The mod had proper venting and a functioning hot spring.

The individual that injured himself decided to buy his batteries at radio shack. He ended up with unprotected ICR batteries. At some point he experienced a hard short and the rest is history.

People using improper batteries in any device can lead to a hazardous situation. Luckily the legacy had proper venting at the top and bottom. Had it not we probably wouldn't be talking about cosmetic damages today. Perfect example imagine if the guy at VapeBlast hadn't have dropped that mutant clone with no venting I think we would be talking about some serious damage.

 

[USMCotaku]

I posted a link to the story...prodigy v. 3.1 mod....enercell batteries....foolish user......

 

[Coldrake]

Colorado e-Cigarette Explosion Lawsuit

It was the prodigy v. 3.1

Thanks. I thought you were talking about the guy in Florida. I hadn't heard of this one. Maybe if that guy had been a member of ECF he would have known something about battery safety.

 

[AlfyB]

And Puresmoker was a great company. I don't think they ever got back into business. There's a few of their products I would love to be able to get these days, especially their tiny Icon... It's disheartening to see how one idiot can ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[USMCotaku]

Thanks. I thought you were talking about the guy in Florida. I hadn't heard of this one. Maybe if that guy had been a member of ECF he would have known something about battery safety.

a smart person knows to research before jumping in to anything, especially what amounts to a possible pipe bomb! This guy obviously doesn't fit that label however

 

[AlfyB]

Patents can be denied as well for products too similar to an existing product. Like, as an example, every mechanical tube mod. I doubt tiny differences in voltage drop and really nice threading are going to be enough for the patent office.

You can still patent you name and logo. It does not stop copies being made, but it does stop clones using your name. And the names of the best known products nowadays are definitely patentable (no common usage).

 

[USMCotaku]

You can still patent you name and logo. It does not stop copies being made, but it does stop clones using your name. And the names of the best known products nowadays are definitely patentable (no common usage).

you can't patent a name or logo, that is trademark

 

[Supergrover]

I like clones, all of mine are equal or better than the authentic version, and I can afford to go out to dinner alllllll week with the money I saved.

 

[Christer01]

I stopped buy a vapping store along my travels and they had a black Stingray clone on sale for $50 or something. I remember a reviewer saying the clone hits as hard, or harder than the original. It's still one of my fav devices but the black has been flecking off almost since day one. It gets all over my hands and clothes. I can't wait for the thing to be all copper. That being said I don't recall any discussion about the original mods finish flecking off after time goes by. Can anyone point me to a discussion along those lines? I'm looking for a mod I can be proud of that hits hard and looks nice, clone or original. I've bought several clones that are subpar and I am tired of wasting my money. Any Help?

 

[Derack]

I think people get into their head that because it cost more...it must be better quality.When in reality alot of clones are just as good as the original(alot of clones are even BETTER than the original).Alot of times you see the clone improve on the device.When it comes down to it...its a metal tube.If you feel the need to pay 200 dollars for that then more power to you.I just hate how so many people think that all clones are garbage and no clone is the same quality as the original(totay BS).I recently bought a brass m16 for 14 dollars off fasttech and I havent had any issues at all with it(it even has a spring loaded solid positive pin,unlike the original).This is one of the cheapest mods off fasttech and honestly it is perfect.

 

[USMCotaku]

I stopped buy a vapping store along my travels and they had a black Stingray clone on sale for $50 or something. I remember a reviewer saying the clone hits as hard, or harder than the original. It's still one of my fav devices but the black has been flecking off almost since day one. It gets all over my hands and clothes. I can't wait for the thing to be all copper. That being said I don't recall any discussion about the original mods finish flecking off after time goes by. Can anyone point me to a discussion along those lines? I'm looking for a mod I can be proud of that hits hard and looks nice, clone or original. I've bought several clones that are subpar and I am tired of wasting my money. Any Help?

doesn't sound like you wound up with an infinite or Hcigar....if it functions well, I would be helping the black come off faster I like the metal tones though. My two are stainless steel.....though when I can afford it I'll be getting a solid copper mod as my dripper

 

[schuff]

I think people get into their head that because it cost more...it must be better quality.When in reality alot of clones are just as good as the original(alot of clones are even BETTER than the original).Alot of times you see the clone improve on the device.When it comes down to it...its a metal tube.If you feel the need to pay 200 dollars for that then more power to you.I just hate how so many people think that all clones are garbage and no clone is the same quality as the original(totay BS).I recently bought a brass m16 for 14 dollars off fasttech and I havent had any issues at all with it(it even has a spring loaded solid positive pin,unlike the original).This is one of the cheapest mods off fasttech and honestly it is perfect.

I hate when I see someone say the "some clones are better than the authentics line." 90% of the time people say that because the clone has a slightly lower voltage drop when that may be true but completely irrelevant when talking about how a mod functions. Unless there is a huge sag voltage drop is a useless stat.

More importantly I look at the day to day use. I see it over and over and over again people coming in to get the new "high end clone" of this RDA, that mod or that drip tip etc. They are getting something new every month because of spinning the post, dropped it and now the locking ring jams or the hot thread hot button issues. Then I have customers that enjoy authentics come in with the same mod they've had for over a year complaining about is there a way to buff a scratch out.

There are good clones true and there are bad authentics but a truly well designed authentic mod and RDA will be your best friend for a very very long time.

 

[USMCotaku]

My panzer clone is very well made, and bullet proof as drops to hard floors will attest to.

 

[Derack]

I hate when I see someone say the "some clones are better than the authentics line." 90% of the time people say that because the clone has a slightly lower voltage drop when that may be true but completely irrelevant when talking about how a mod functions. Unless there is a huge sag voltage drop is a useless stat.

More importantly I look at the day to day use. I see it over and over and over again people coming in to get the new "high end clone" of this RDA, that mod or that drip tip etc. They are getting something new every month because of spinning the post, dropped it and now the locking ring jams or the hot thread hot button issues. Then I have customers that enjoy authentics come in with the same mod they've had for over a year complaining about is there a way to buff a scratch out.

There are good clones true and there are bad authentics but a truly well designed authentic mod and RDA will be your best friend for a very very long time.

I have never owned a authentic but I do own clones(RDAs and mechs) and they all still work.The oldest clone i have is a aluminum and brass sentinel(10 bucks from fasttech),I think its over 2 years old now.I gave that one to my dad and its still working perfect.It's a metal tube so its not like its gonna break easily.

 

[vapero]

I hate when I see someone say the "some clones are better than the authentics line." 90% of the time people say that because the clone has a slightly lower voltage drop when that may be true but completely irrelevant when talking about how a mod functions. Unless there is a huge sag voltage drop is a useless stat.

More importantly I look at the day to day use. I see it over and over and over again people coming in to get the new "high end clone" of this RDA, that mod or that drip tip etc. They are getting something new every month because of spinning the post, dropped it and now the locking ring jams or the hot thread hot button issues. Then I have customers that enjoy authentics come in with the same mod they've had for over a year complaining about is there a way to buff a scratch out.

There are good clones true and there are bad authentics but a truly well designed authentic mod and RDA will be your best friend for a very very long time.

I think your statement applies more to electronic mods rather than mechs and rdas.

if it is done right it doesn't need to fail.

I have +20 rdas and 5 mechs, besides 2 rdas that rusted on me (a $6 + $5 lost) everything has worked flawlessly and all for the price of $300, I prefer my big collection than 1 mech and 2 toppers.

for me the great thing about clones is this I get to try everything I want, if I don't like an rda that I bought I don't worry next week I can replace it with another one. what would happened if I bought a $120 rda and discovered that I didn't liked it? I'm not on the us so the classies don't work for me, I'll be stuck with that investment and would had to wait a couple of months before justifying another +$100 purchase

in the end it all boils down to free market and spending wisely (for some it means using your money to support the mod makers and for some it means using your money the most efficient way and supporting your family)

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

The knock off brand of Frosted Flakes I buy at the grocery store for 1/4 of the price doesn't say Kellog's and have Tony the Tiger on it.
Painter's that "knock off" a DaVinci or Van Gogh aren't doing so to "honor" them.

I draw the line at clones that "clone" the logos, maker's marks, and serial numbers.
That's not an "homage" or "authentic replica" .

And the funny thing is that it's completely unnecessary unless the goal is to deceive a vendor or deceive a customer.
Or, I suppose for some, to deceive their friends (to which I woulld say--seek help)

If you're going to make a 'knock off" just make one and call it what it is.

 

[treehead]

Are there any fairly wealthy folks here?

I guess not Asbestos, I think we're all just lowly peasants trying to scrounge up whatever we can, throwing our morals aside just to appear like we have the real thing.

Lol, I make really good money, I make 80k a year in my current nursing position, that's only if I take a month off altogether, and only work 40hours a week (usually alot more unfortunately :/).

I'd think your just a wee bit silly if you think all wealthy people buy authentics only, and "poor" people only buy clones. I could literally buy every authentic that releases every day, I just choose not to, because I like to find the best deal, or use my money to it's full potential (like save up for vacations to europe, or buy a bmw s1000rr). I'll admit, there are obviously more high quality mods in the authentic category, and I'll gladly pay for a higher quality mod, but it's not always the case 100% of the time. Sometimes the clone will perform better, be made of a better material (I love copper, and alot of clones offer the copper "version" exclusively), or even be made larger into a 26650 mod/atty (which is 2x better than the 18650 version usually, for my preferences anyway).

Some people are brought up knowing how to find the best deal, I don't need coupons, but I still use them because I think it's just an intelligent use of your money. I'll be that much richer if I get the same quality product, for less money. Do you really use buying authentics to prove that your wealthy?

 

[treehead]

The knock off brand of Frosted Flakes I buy at the grocery store for 1/4 of the price doesn't say Kellog's and have Tony the Tiger on it.
Painter's that "knock off" a DaVinci or Van Gogh aren't doing so to "honor" them.

I draw the line at clones that "clone" the logos, maker's marks, and serial numbers.
That's not an "homage" or "authentic replica" .

And the funny thing is that it's completely unnecessary unless the goal is to deceive a vendor or deceive a customer.
Or, I suppose for some, to deceive their friends (to which I woulld say--seek help)

If you're going to make a 'knock off" just make one and call it what it is.

I highly doubt the cloners do it just to ruin some lives lol, I'd be willing to bet it's more like making a popular design available in larger quantities/lower price, all while making a profit for their business as well.

Some people love Kellog's Frosted Flakes (Reese's puffs is where it's at lol, nobody can knock them off because they make such a high quality product), and some people think the "knock off" tastes the same, only it comes in a massive 3lb bag for half the price. The only difference in the vaping world is that manufacturers don't patent their name/product, if they did, the cloners would have to name it the "FayKun", or "Vlume Peil", and have to change something up by a few mm's.

 

[JohnnyBGoode]

Since the original inventor , think some Japanese guy, actually not very much changed in the basic concepts of vaping. You have eliquid, some kanthal and some wick to bring things together. They might change the battery or its holder a little, change the shape and form of a tank but the basic principle still holds. Since all these companies or designers or mod builders or whatever , don't even pay licenses to the original inventor of the concept , I don't quite see why their derived products should be protected and couldn't be replicated.
Most of them only drive up the price by producing limited batches anyway. They could easily outsource to China and mass produce originals if they wanted to.
No mech is worth 200,- not by a long shot. The fact you can't buy a clone for 20,- delivered to your door doesn't alter that fact.
Same standard of quality could easily be mass produced for 40,- or less. This way an original wouldn't need to cost much more than 60-70 bucks and far more people would buy the original.
I bought an original Gus Lord for 90 euros. Fairly reasonable for the elaborate craftsmanship. That is however my far out max for any mod. At the time there were no clones yet and I fell in love with it.

However since I like collecting, I for sure will not buy everything original. There is no need, certainly not with mechs. There are plenty quality clones out there.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I highly doubt the cloners do it just to ruin some lives lol, I'd be willing to bet it's more like making a popular design available in larger quantities/lower price, all while making a profit for their business as well.

Some people love Kellog's Frosted Flakes (Reese's puffs is where it's at lol, nobody can knock them off because they make such a high quality product), and some people think the "knock off" tastes the same, only it comes in a massive 3lb bag for half the price. The only difference in the vaping world is that manufacturers don't patent their name/product, if they did, the cloners would have to name it the "FayKun", or "Vlume Peil", and have to change something up by a few mm's.

Great Post!
I get that it's about making coin--my point is I personally won't buy a clone that tries to pass itself off as the real thing.
I have clones--cost was part of the reason--but availability was the main reason.
I wanted a Mercedes sedan, I could afford a Chrysler 300 sedan. But my 300 wasn't available with the Mercedes logo on it.

I'll let you in on a secret (you may be aware of). I sell industrial automation to major manufacturers--including food products--and often that "knock off " brand is the exact same product (comes off the same filling line with a different package- contract packaged) and sold as the economy brand. In other cases it is the same product that hasn't met the QA standards of the "name" brand. (Example:Individual Frosted Flakes that broke and are too small to meet Tony the Tiger standards)

And I think you're on to something with your comment about "Patents".
Is it a case of it just not happening (manufacturer's not applying)? If so, why?
Is it a case of patents not being "enforceable"?
Technically there really are no rules governing the devices so how does that affect the legal pursuit of patent infringement?
Can you sue someone for stealing your ecig design when the legal definition of an ecig doesn't exist?
Currently we know what an ecig IS NOT and that is a smoking cessation device.

But perhaps you most illustrious comment is that REESE's PUFFS are DA' BOMB!!!!

Only I no longer buy them......I buy what's on the shelf right below it...

Peanut Butter COCO LOCO