The Muffin Man and The Milk Man - Company's response to Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl

[skoony]

Where's the witch hunt ? The op asked a vendor if their product contains DA/AP. Vendor responded that their product doesn't contain any harmful ingredients, not responding directly to the question. The op followed up with an email asking if they have test results. Where is the harm in that ?
Why are you stating that the op is senseless ? Just laugh it off if you think diketones in e liquid is a non-issue.

Clearly you are pretending not to under stand my point again ! We have gone through this on the VS thread that you repeatedly derailed until i was forced to close it. Remember ?

If i don't care whether a product contains lead for example, i wouldn't constantly post in a thread discussing lead in various products and repeatedly downplay the 'supposed' danger of lead. I would just let the people who care have their discussion and i would go to a thread that discusses my concerns. That is unless , my interests where where allied to the lead interest for example, or i had another agenda.

Just saying !

And clearly you know that i'm not saying what you re-stated my argument as . You are a lot smarter than you pretend to be.

what are you talking about?
if he his not intending to purchase the product,
why are my motives suspect and not his.
I have never said the OP´s inquiries were senseless.
you are the one that is trying to obfuscate my points.
if he feels the need to make inquiries go ahead.
there is no need for a play by play account.
regards
mike

 

[Mazinny]

what are you talking about?
if he his not intending to purchase the product,
why are my motives suspect and not his.
I have never said the OP´s inquiries were senseless.
you are the one that is trying to obfuscate my points.
if he feels the need to make inquiries go ahead.
there is no need for a play by play account.
regards
mike

Cool story brother ! i won't get in a back and forth with you. Not my thread, and i won't contribute to the derailment of it any more than i already have.

Your posts speak for themselves.

Continue !

 

[skoony]

Cool story brother ! i won't get in a back and forth with you. Not my thread, and i won't contribute to the derailment of it any more than i already have.

Your posts speak for themselves.

Continue !

well finally I agree with you.
my posts do speak for myself.
I am not afraid to admit it.
regards
mike

 

[Richriv]

It has become ridiculous to me that every single time this issue is raised, a few individuals on this forum jump in with the same argument. If you're not concerned about diketones, then just move on to another thread. There are quite a few people here that are concerned about this matter. Continue with the flowing of information or as it's been described here the "witch hunt".

 

[c3scott]

If you trust vendors to provide testing results and you think vaping is good for you....I'll stop there.

 

[LisaR]

I'm with Mazinny on this. I commend emolinare for following up on this and pushing the vendor for test results. If you don't want to know, don't follow the thread. Many of us DO want to know what's in our e-liquids, and it takes all of us (or at least more than one) to push the vendors to disclose. Otherwise it's pretty much buyer beware. Consumers actually caring what they are spending money on is pretty much the only thing that keeps capitalism honest.

to emolinare for pushing for REAL information!

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I still believe that some members posting in threads like this are protecting their own ejuice financial assets.

 

[Underwhelmed]

I still believe that some members posting in threads like this are protecting their own ejuice financial assets.

Yes, and sometimes they just also happen to be tools.

 

[emolinare]

Skoony, I'll give you an example. Imagine you're planning on buying a product for a daily consumption. You worry about peanut content - because it's not listed on the label. Would you pickup the phone and simply ask the company or would you take the product to a lab and do your own testing? Please allow me to say that if you're the type who takes all products of your concern to a lab for testing, you may have a problem with communication, because most of us see no harm in asking. As far as me, I will always prefer companies that disclose the information vs those who choose to keep people uninformed.

UPDATE: It has been couple of days now and vendor did not reply to any further emails.

 

[skoony]

It has become ridiculous to me that every single time this issue is raised, a few individuals on this forum jump in with the same argument. If you're not concerned about diketones, then just move on to another thread. There are quite a few people here that are concerned about this matter. Continue with the flowing of information or as it's been described here the "witch hunt".

fair enough.
so i don't get to voice my concern that when this subject
comes especially as the OP is presenting it?
he doesn't appear to even want to purchase the
vendors e-juice at all. so what is the point of his post?
is he hoping they do not send him test results so he
can call them out? who would benefit from that?
there are enough vendors offering test results to
keep anyone concerned happy.
its not necessary to be calling anyone out with all
the information available.
why can't one who is concerned about a vendor
just move on? there are plenty of fish in the sea.
i have never said people shouldn't be concerned.
all i have said is i wish some people would use
some perspective. deliberately looking for problems
when clearly other avenues of approach exist does
not help.
if one insists on doing so there there is a forum
on another platform that specializes in this type activity.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

I'm with Mazinny on this. I commend emolinare for following up on this and pushing the vendor for test results. If you don't want to know, don't follow the thread. Many of us DO want to know what's in our e-liquids, and it takes all of us (or at least more than one) to push the vendors to disclose. Otherwise it's pretty much buyer beware. Consumers actually caring what they are spending money on is pretty much the only thing that keeps capitalism honest.

to emolinare for pushing for REAL information!

there are more than enough vendors that supply test results
there is no reason not to know whats in your juice.
seek out the vendors that supply the information you want.
they are more likely to have the same concerns that you have.

regards
mike

 

[emolinare]

....as the OP is presenting it - he doesn't appear to even want to purchase the vendors e-juice at all. so what is the point of his post?

Hi skoony.... Well, let me clear it up for you: The Muffin Man is the only e-juice I am vaping on, pretty much ever since I've switched to vaping.
Let me add... Wouldn't a typical conclusion be that I am either already buying or at least planning to buy this e-juice and that's why I am asking the vendor about the content?
Well, it's not obvious to you, you seem to jump to a completely opposite conclusion and then go on and on, basing entire triads on what is your own misunderstood interpretation. Next time just ask, you'll save yourself some time.

 

[KattMamma]

These compounds are known to cause deadly 'popcorn' lung disease

I take issue with these kinds of threads because of these types of comments. These compounds are NOT KNOWN TO CAUSE ANYTHING. They are suspected of causation, but the suspicion actually involves an industrial setting and other compounds. And try as they might, they have yet to prove anything.

And I have zero financial interests in any vapor-related products. I work in a completely unrelated industry. I just hate seeing vapers give vaping a black eye that's not justified.

As skoony said, if you're concerned about DA and AP, there are plenty of vendors who now offer test results. You can also do your own testing. Or vape unflavored. Or quit vaping. You have options that will set your concerned mind at ease. If you keep pushing this unwarranted witch hunt against DA and AP, you might take away MY options. That's where my concern comes from.

 

[emolinare]

These compounds are NOT KNOWN TO CAUSE ANYTHING.

There seems to be a wealth of information saying otherwise:
Diacetyl - Toxipedia

You can also do your own testing. Or vape unflavored. Or quit vaping. You have options that will set your concerned mind at ease. If you keep pushing this unwarranted witch hunt against DA and AP, you might take away MY options.

As I've mentioned earlier, I solely vape on one of their e-juice products. That's why I've decided to ask the vendor if their product contains DA or AP.
It is mind boggling to see that some people see an 'unwarranted witch hunt' as you say, in a very simple question to vendor about the content of their product.

 

[jrlakeman]

I think there answer was reasonable if your that suspicious dont vape it. I vape both as my adv and have talked on the phone with the owner on a shipping mishaps hes a very good business man. He went well beyond my expectations to make good on my issue.

 

[KattMamma]

That article links to the CDC, but fails to mention that even the CDC admitted that there were likely other factors contributing to those cases of popcorn lung. From CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic :

Workers in microwave popcorn manufacturing are exposed to many materials besides diacetyl. Thus, NIOSH's initial studies in a total of 6 microwave popcorn plants were not able to definitely determine if diacetyl exposure contributed to lung disease or was a marker for other hazardous substances that contributed to disease.

 

[emolinare]

I think there answer was reasonable if your that suspicious dont vape it.

I am sorry if you feel the right answer is to stop vaping their product, instead of asking vendor about the content while keeping community posted on the progress.
I thought that this forum is really about informing and exchanging information about e-cigarettes and e-juices in general.

 

[skoony]

Hi skoony.... Well, let me clear it up for you: The Muffin Man is the only e-juice I am vaping on, pretty much ever since I've switched to vaping.
Let me add... Wouldn't a typical conclusion be that I am either already buying or at least planning to buy this e-juice and that's why I am asking the vendor about the content?
Well, it's not obvious to you, you seem to jump to a completely opposite conclusion and then go on and on, basing entire triads on what is your own misunderstood interpretation. Next time just ask, you'll save yourself some time.

your first two posts gave no indication at all you used it nor
were considering using it.
even if you are or did,whats the point?
you make a post and question peoples conclusions?
give me a break.
do your research.get your results. take action
in your best interest relying on the information
you gathered.
tell me why would you think anyone is interested.
your just another consumer doing what consumers do.
nothing to see here.
my interpretation is not flawed. your presentation is.

regards
mike

 

[sparkky1]

There are "currently" no regulations that require test for these compounds.Hopefully we will see other distributors doing this, because it's pretty clear that we can't trust many of the e-liquid manufacturers to do this testing themselves.So as it stands for the company's that won't provide lab analysis use at your own risk assessment does apply...........

Virgin Vapor Prepares for FDA Regulations - Testing E-Liquids for Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl
admin | AEMSA

 

[emolinare]

There are "currently" no regulations that require test for these compounds.Hopefully we will see other distributors doing this, because it's pretty clear that we can't trust many of the e-liquid manufacturers to do this testing themselves.So as it stands for the company's that won't provide lab analysis use at your own risk assessment does apply...........
Virgin Vapor Prepares for FDA Regulations - Testing E-Liquids for Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl
admin | AEMSA

Thanks, that's great, looks like industry is already moving in the right direction. Testing of products and disclosing results is necessary in order to speed up evolution of e-cigarette products.