So how does vaping create formaldehyde?

[VapinNationStation]

Ok I looked it up, and I don't understand what they mean. Its kind of long so bear with me.

Their explanation:

"The reaction is essentially an incomplete combustion reaction.
In a vaporizer, the idea is to get the propylene glycol, glycerine, and and "flavor" molecules into the vapor phase (or into aerosol droplets) without chemically degrading them.
However, the way this is accomplished is with very high-temperature resistor coils - the idea is that if you have a small amount of heat in a confined space, and the liquid is distributed throughout an absorbent (like cotton, for example), then the heat transfer will happen very quickly and a large amount of liquid will be vaporized.
The problem is that when you have a very high temperature heat source, and there is lots of oxygen in comparison to the liquid, there is a good chance that at least some of the liquid will reach the combustion temperature instead of just vaporizing.
What happens is that the hydrocarbons in the propylene glycol and glycerin molecules are partially oxidized - oxygen reacts with them to "steal" electrons. If the combustion was complete, you would wind up with just carbon dioxide and water. When combustion is incomplete, you can get any number of compounds, two of which happen to be formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. Carbon monoxide is another one I would be concerned about."

What I get from this is, you need to have less airflow or it will heat faster (oxygen helps feed heat). I mainly use a revenger 230 and cascade sub ohm tank with 0.15 ohm coils (its a quad coil). And I vape at 100w full open airflow.

This is what I dont get, they say its caused by incomplete combustion (vapor) but thats the whole point of vaping, to get vapor. Should I just close off the airflow a bit and it will reduce the amount of formaldehyde? Am I just interpreting this wrong, or are they just speaking nonsense?

 

[zoiDman]

Ok I looked it up, and I don't understand what they mean. Its kind of long so bear with me.

Their explanation:

"The reaction is essentially an incomplete combustion reaction.
In a vaporizer, the idea is to get the propylene glycol, glycerine, and and "flavor" molecules into the vapor phase (or into aerosol droplets) without chemically degrading them.
However, the way this is accomplished is with very high-temperature resistor coils - the idea is that if you have a small amount of heat in a confined space, and the liquid is distributed throughout an absorbent (like cotton, for example), then the heat transfer will happen very quickly and a large amount of liquid will be vaporized.
The problem is that when you have a very high temperature heat source, and there is lots of oxygen in comparison to the liquid, there is a good chance that at least some of the liquid will reach the combustion temperature instead of just vaporizing.
What happens is that the hydrocarbons in the propylene glycol and glycerin molecules are partially oxidized - oxygen reacts with them to "steal" electrons. If the combustion was complete, you would wind up with just carbon dioxide and water. When combustion is incomplete, you can get any number of compounds, two of which happen to be formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. Carbon monoxide is another one I would be concerned about."

What I get from this is, you need to have less airflow or it will heat faster (oxygen helps feed heat). I mainly use a revenger 230 and cascade sub ohm tank with 0.15 ohm coils (its a quad coil). And I vape at 100w full open airflow.

This is what I dont get, they say its caused by incomplete combustion (vapor) but thats the whole point of vaping, to get vapor. Should I just close off the airflow a bit and it will reduce the amount of formaldehyde? Am I just interpreting this wrong, or are they just speaking nonsense?

If you want to minimize Formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde formation, the key to Limit the Temperature the Coil can reach. So Reducing the Amount of Airflow is going to be Bass Ackwards.

If anything, you would want to Increase Airflow.

 

[zoiDman]

Ok I looked it up, and I don't understand what they mean. Its kind of long so bear with me.

Their explanation:

"The reaction is essentially an incomplete combustion reaction.
In a vaporizer, the idea is to get the propylene glycol, glycerine, and and "flavor" molecules into the vapor phase (or into aerosol droplets) without chemically degrading them.
However, the way this is accomplished is with very high-temperature resistor coils - the idea is that if you have a small amount of heat in a confined space, and the liquid is distributed throughout an absorbent (like cotton, for example), then the heat transfer will happen very quickly and a large amount of liquid will be vaporized.
The problem is that when you have a very high temperature heat source, and there is lots of oxygen in comparison to the liquid, there is a good chance that at least some of the liquid will reach the combustion temperature instead of just vaporizing.
What happens is that the hydrocarbons in the propylene glycol and glycerin molecules are partially oxidized - oxygen reacts with them to "steal" electrons. If the combustion was complete, you would wind up with just carbon dioxide and water. When combustion is incomplete, you can get any number of compounds, two of which happen to be formaldehyde and acetaldehyde. Carbon monoxide is another one I would be concerned about."

What I get from this is, you need to have less airflow or it will heat faster (oxygen helps feed heat). I mainly use a revenger 230 and cascade sub ohm tank with 0.15 ohm coils (its a quad coil). And I vape at 100w full open airflow.

This is what I dont get, they say its caused by incomplete combustion (vapor) but thats the whole point of vaping, to get vapor. Should I just close off the airflow a bit and it will reduce the amount of formaldehyde? Am I just interpreting this wrong, or are they just speaking nonsense?

BTW - This member has done a Lot of Study into Formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde.

mikepetro's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

If you want to minimize Formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde formation, the key to Limit the Temperature the Coil can reach. So Reducing the Amount of Airflow is going to be Bass Ackwards.

If anything, you would want to Increase Airflow.

Agreed. To cut airflow from full to anything less, the coils and juice would actually get so hot you probably could not even put it near your lips without fear of burning. Plus have the coil burn out in a few puffs.

 

[VapinNationStation]

If you want to minimize Formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde formation, the key to Limit the Temperature the Coil can reach. So Reducing the Amount of Airflow is going to be Bass Ackwards.

If anything, you would want to Increase Airflow.

I cant use tc because its kanthal. But I get what you're saying. Ive done the conversion for 100w its only about 3.4volts for 2 batteries so I should be fine then. Thanks!

 

[VapinNationStation]

Agreed. To cut airflow from full to anything less, the coils and juice would actually get so hot you probably could not even put it near your lips without fear of burning. Plus have the coil burn out in a few puffs.

Its actually more on the lower end of the power, the coils rated 80w - 200w and the tip dont get hot, ive ramped this sucker up to 140w but the vapors TOO hot for me hahah. The tip does get warm then full open 100w is my sweetspot. Also the ecig auto set itself on rtc mode when I first got it. So I think it does its own little self temp control not really sure. Ive never messed with that half of this battery/boxmod ive never used software wise.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Its actually more on the lower end of the power, the coils rated 80w - 200w and the tip dont get hot, ive ramped this sucker up to 140w but the vapors TOO hot for me hahah. The tip does get warm then full open 100w is my sweetspot.

I just cannot image vaping something with that high of watts. Yes, I do temp and sub-ohm but have no desire for a hot vape or vapor. I guess I just don't see that appeal of it. But that is the beauty of the vaping journey and whatever it takes to keep us off those nasty cigarettes is really the goal..

Good luck to you,

 

[bombastinator]

I cant use tc because its kanthal. But I get what you're saying. Ive done the conversion for 100w its only about 3.4volts for 2 batteries so I should be fine then. Thanks!

The thing the anti-vapers don’t like to talk about is how much formaldehyde there actually is compared to, say, regular big city air. The answer I understand is near none unless you actually set your wick on fire. I remember one study that talked about significant amounts of formaldehyde, but only above 450f. What is cotton made of? Cellulose. What is paper made of? Cellulose. What is the temperature that paper spontaneously flashes into flame? Fahrenheit 451.

 

[Mordacai]

VapinNationStation, there's a Japanese study where they tested more than one type of device. As a lot of studies concentrated on c4e type and they artificially chain vaped them at unrealistic levels, quite probably drying the coil out and burning it somewhat in the process.

And in no way am I saying that vaping is perfectly safe, but tell me what is?

But airflow wide open and TC is possibly the way that you would want to go if you reduce risk.

 

[zoiDman]

I cant use tc because its kanthal. But I get what you're saying. Ive done the conversion for 100w its only about 3.4volts for 2 batteries so I should be fine then. Thanks!

One of the Biggest things a Non-TC Vaper can do to reduce the potential of Formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde formation is to Not Do Back-2-Back Hits.

That, and the Addition of a Few Drops of Water can significantly reduce the Vapor Point of an e-Liquid.

 

[VapinNationStation]

One of the Biggest things a Non-TC Vaper can do to reduce the potential of Formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde formation is to Not Do Back-2-Back Hits.

That, and the Addition of a Few Drops of Water can significantly reduce the Vapor Point of an e-Liquid.

I don't think its very hot, because its 100w going into basically 4 coils, so probobly 25w each coil in the 1 coil now that i think about it. I usually don't take more than 1-2 puff then put it down for a couple mins, and the puffs only last about 1-2 seconds. Also even at 100w I can get 2500-3000 puffs out of a single coil before any sort of odd taste. Thanks for the info, im just now trying to wrap my brain around this formaldehyde, after a couple years of vapin. Im not sure how to add a pic but heres the coil Screenshot it auto set itself in RTC mode so i think it does the tc by itself not sure

 

[bombastinator]

I don't think its very hot, because its 100w going into basically 4 coils, so probobly 25w each coil in the 1 coil now that i think about it. I usually don't take more than 1-2 puff then put it down for a couple mins, and the puffs only last about 1-2 seconds. Also even at 100w I can get 2500-3000 puffs out of a single coil before any sort of odd taste. Thanks for the info, im just now trying to wrap my brain around this formaldehyde, after a couple years of vapin. Im not sure how to add a pic but heres the coil Screenshot it auto set itself in RTC mode so i think it does the tc by itself not sure

I remember a story somewhere about someone raiding a vape shop where many people vaped all day for months and months. They did testing of everything looking for formaldehyde. The only place they could find any was in the artificial fibers of the couch. By this measure it’s more dangerous to sit on a scotch-guarded sofa than it is to vape.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

The thing the anti-vapers don’t like to talk about is how much formaldehyde there actually is compared to, say, regular big city air. The answer I understand is near none unless you actually set your wick on fire. I remember one study that talked about significant amounts of formaldehyde, but only above 450f. What is cotton made of? Cellulose. What is paper made of? Cellulose. What is the temperature that paper spontaneously flashes into flame? Fahrenheit 451.

Yeah Bomb, but realistically the paper is not wet and compressed into a small id like a coil/wick. So that and controlled air flow help to cool them down while a flat sheet of paper has air to fed the fire with no protection.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I don't think its very hot, because its 100w going into basically 4 coils, so probobly 25w each coil in the 1 coil now that i think about it. I usually don't take more than 1-2 puff then put it down for a couple mins, and the puffs only last about 1-2 seconds. Also even at 100w I can get 2500-3000 puffs out of a single coil before any sort of odd taste. Thanks for the info, im just now trying to wrap my brain around this formaldehyde, after a couple years of vapin. Im not sure how to add a pic but heres the coil Screenshot it auto set itself in RTC mode so i think it does the tc by itself not sure

nvm

 

[Mordacai]

Nice one zoiDman, increase specific heat capacity.

 

[zoiDman]

I don't think its very hot, because its 100w going into basically 4 coils, so probobly 25w each coil in the 1 coil now that i think about it. I usually don't take more than 1-2 puff then put it down for a couple mins, and the puffs only last about 1-2 seconds. Also even at 100w I can get 2500-3000 puffs out of a single coil before any sort of odd taste. Thanks for the info, im just now trying to wrap my brain around this formaldehyde, after a couple years of vapin. Im not sure how to add a pic but heres the coil Screenshot it auto set itself in RTC mode so i think it does the tc by itself not sure

Wattage is kinda a Funny Thing.

If I made a Coil out of a Coat Hanger, the Ohms would be Soooo Loooow that I would Need 4 Digit Wattage to make the Coil even Warm to the touch.

But if I make a Coil from 30ga NiChrome 80, the Hit at 25 Watts might be Too Hot for even the Most Grisly vaper.

It's Really all about Wire Temperature.

 

[BrotherBob]

two of which happen to be formaldehyde and acetaldehyde.

Welcome and glad you joined.
"So how does vaping create formaldehyde?"
Hmmmm... According to the information below, you have 40 vs 29000 ng vaping vs smoking. I think I will stick to vaping. Probably get less formaldehyde vaping than walking down a city street.
VapeWild Test Results
E-Cigarettes Can Churn Out High Levels Of Formaldehyde