Shelf life of unmixed pg/vg base & nic base

[dms25]

Hi,

New to DIYing here but with new laws pending in the EU I'm thinking of giving it a try. If I were to order base ingedients for 6 liters of juice this would last me 2-3 years. However I do not have a freezer space to store this amount of liquid (I move around a lot). I can store it in a dark place at roughly 18c.

So my question is what is the shelf life of these bases, when still in the original container and unmixed?

 

[AndriaD]

Only the nicotine needs to be stored in a freezer, to preserve its life/potency/flavor (lack of flavor, actually). The PG and VG don't need any special precautions, though I keep mine under the kitchen cabinets, so they're in a usually-dark space with a fairly stable temp. So get the nicotine in as high a mg level as you can -- usually 100mg I think, though I've seen a few places that offer higher. Depending on your usual mg level for vaping and how much you vape per day, a small amount of 100mg can go a long way -- I vape 5mg, less than 5ml per day, so the 3/4 liter I currently have in the freezer is about 10 yrs' worth.

Andria

ETA: also, there's no real need to stockpile PG/VG ; they're used in a LOT of other applications, so cannot be banned.

 

[dms25]

Thanks AndriaD!

Does the shelf life of Nic base vary if it's PG&VG or just PG?

The place I want to order from has max 48mg/ml PG in 10x100ml glass bottles, sounds like a good option for storing. And at the 2mg/ml I will be vaping it at that is 24 liters of juice which is also a good 10years for me!

 

[AndriaD]

I don't think the carrier matters too much, for its shelf life; I *suspect* that VG might go bad before PG does, but that's just a gut feeling, due to VG's more "organic" nature, no real facts on that. I do know that VG, even just chilled, but especially in a freezer, gets so thick that it's almost more of a gel than a liquid; to be able to use it in a mix, it would need to come to room temp or pretty close to it, or it's very difficult to work with -- especially in a syringe; I keep my VG under the cabinet, so it's room temp all the time, but even in a 14ga syringe, it's very difficult to draw up, it's so thick. I don't use enough VG to make it worth pouring, so I struggle with the 14ga syringe for the little bit I use. PG is thin enough that even straight from the freezer, it can be drawn up in a syringe quite easily.

Andria

 

[VNeil]

...I don't use enough VG to make it worth pouring, so I struggle with the 14ga syringe for the little bit I use. PG is thin enough that even straight from the freezer, it can be drawn up in a syringe quite easily.

Andria

I put my working stock of VG in the microwave before I pour it or use a syringe. It thins down quite well. I store my working stock in a 250ml glass bottle, which fits in the microwave well.

Our resident chemist, Kurt, suggests nic may store longer in VG because he believes most of the oxidation occurs from oxygen naturally trapped in the PG/VG, and he believes VG has less. He has had good results with VG based 100mg nic, stored for 6 years in glass bottles in his freezer, with minimal air space in the bottle.

On the other hand, PG is a natural antibacterial and antiviral, so especially if stored in cool temps but not in a freezer, PG ****MIGHT**** be better for that reason. But I'm speculating. I split the diff and bought my nic in a 50/50 base. I figure there is enough PG to keep the bugs down, and it should store well in a freezer. Just my own speculative guess.

 

[dms25]

On the other hand, PG is a natural antibacterial and antiviral, so especially if stored in cool temps but not in a freezer, PG ****MIGHT**** be better for that reason. But I'm speculating. I split the diff and bought my nic in a 50/50 base. I figure there is enough PG to keep the bugs down, and it should store well in a freezer. Just my own speculative guess.

so does that mean PG base nic cannot be frozen?

 

[Rossum]

so does that mean PG base nic cannot be frozen?

What do you mean? Neither PG or VG (nor any mixture of the two) will turn into a solid at temperatures available in a conventional freezer that operates around -0F or -20C. They will simply get more viscous. But either one can be stored at those temperatures.

Freezer storage is of doubtful benefit to PG or VG, but it is definitely beneficial for nic base because it slows all chemical reactions compared to storing the product at a higher temperature, and nicotine likes to oxidize.

 

[herb]

I have been storing only nic in 100% PG base for close to two years in the freezer and no issues at all .

 

[dms25]

What do you mean?

Well VNeil said his 50/50 should store well in a freezer so I thought maybe he was insinuating that pure PG would not.

As I am ordering 10years worth of nic I want to make sure I can store it properly for that long!

 

[Rossum]

Well VNeil said his 50/50 should store well in a freezer so I thought maybe he was insinuating that pure PG would not.

As I am ordering 10years worth of nic I want to make sure I can store it properly for that long!

Nobody has stored either one that long and reported results, but the results from people who've stored it 5-6 years are quite encouraging. Make sure it's in glass bottles with quality caps and minimal air in the headspace of the bottles.

It's not entirely clear whether VG or PG is a better medium for long-term storage of nic. Most of mine is in PG, but after reading a lot, I'm starting to think VG might be a better choice for the really long term, simply due to its higher viscosity. It's not like "bugs" are gonna grow it at freezer temperatures anyway.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

The freezing point of PG is something like -60F and for VG it is something like -20f for high purity VG.
Un refrigerated or frozen the stated shelf life for PG is ~2 years and about 6 months less for VG.
That is kept reasonably cool and in the dark.

PG seems to do fine in a freezer at 0 F not sure about VG in a freezer though, some of it has more water than others.
I have to wonder if it might try to separate because of the water content...

 

[Rossum]

Yep, but the "stated" shelf life of both VG and PG seems to be under-stated, and I think those numbers should be regarded as minimums.

As long as they are in well-sealed containers what exactly is going to happen to them?

 

[dms25]

The place I am ordering give a 5yr shelf life to all bases in glass bottles. We all know canned food lasts easily 10 years after the expiry date, let's hope it's the same for this

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Yep, but the "stated" shelf life of both VG and PG seems to be under-stated, and I think those numbers should be regarded as minimums.

As long as they are in well-sealed containers what exactly is going to happen to them?

I have not a clue but I expect that PG will last far longer than VG.
I was just giving times that I had gleaned from some manufacturers of PG/VG websites.
I suspect that PG might last for decades in a deep freezer at around 0 F.
I have suspicions that VG might not be as friendly to freezing though due to water content.
All VG has some water in it. the higher grades have less but all has some.

 

[Rossum]

I'm keeping my stash of straight PG and VG at room temperature. I'd rather use the freezer space it would occupy for nic.

 

[seebo]

The freezing point of PG is something like -60F and for VG it is something like -20f for high purity VG.
Un refrigerated or frozen the stated shelf life for PG is ~2 years and about 6 months less for VG.
That is kept reasonably cool and in the dark.

PG seems to do fine in a freezer at 0 F not sure about VG in a freezer though, some of it has more water than others.
I have to wonder if it might try to separate because of the water content...

both last a LONG time. i don't know exactly the age PG can last, but i know for a fact that VG can last 5 years or more because the bottle of USA made, Pharmaceutical Grade (USP) VG that i have has an expire date of 12/2019.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I'm keeping my stash of straight PG and VG at room temperature. I'd rather use the freezer space it would occupy for nic.

I have a big freezer in the basement.

 

[Rossum]

No basement here. But I would find space for it anyway if I though it were necessary.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

No basement here. But I would find space for it anyway if I though it were necessary.

I have 2 litres of 100mg in the freezer. Since I only went thru about 150 ml in 11 months.... I think I am set for quite a while.
Since I went to the Sub Tank Mini's though my juice consumption has gone up a lot so maybe 1/4 liter per year now? So 8 years worth of nic?

What I really need is more swine and bovine flesh in my freezer.

 

[dms25]

Another question, what about PG based flavours, it seems the shelf life is a lot shorter for flavours, do you keep them in the freezer too?