I really don't see what your problem is here what's wrong with wanting to know what's in something you are inhaling on a daily basis? You have your opinion I have mine and my opinion is just as valid as any other vapers.
Pyrazine Additives
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I really don't see what your problem is here what's wrong with wanting to know what's in something you are inhaling on a daily basis? You have your opinion I have mine and my opinion is just as valid as any other vapers.
So if every ingredient and/or chemical is listed, who is going to determine which are good or bad for you and to what extent? I mean, really how many times have we heard how bad/good something was for us and then years later, just the opposite is reported/discovered. Welcome back red M&M's! Me thinks that any juice producer is not likely to include an ingredient that could cause mass illness or deaths.
You say that now. But what if you could make that same ejuice for 100th of the cost exactly the way they make it would you still pay $20+ for that bottle you know you can make for $2 possibly even less?
No not all habits are bad but unfortunately the human race is very habitual by nature. It is 10x easier to form a habit that it is to break it. I think that where all the negativity stems from when someone says "bad habit". Seems like the govt though only wants to tax and regulate your "bad habits" and none of their own. Term limits people term limits!
My problem isn't so much with you or your opinion as it is the affinity so many people seem to have for complaining without thinking all the way through.
Lets say a "simple" ingredient list is all that's needed.. How do we go about that, pg, vg, nicotine mg/ml, and flavorings? Well the flavorings differ between brands, do we demand the brands?
In theory this plan has already made cloning e-liquid's from vendors that have "special blends" much more simple than it currently is. So there's a hit to their wallet.
Or do we go further and demand that companies get the full ingredient list for every flavor? So then these companies have to get every flavoring they use tested to find out exactly what is in them as most flavoring companies don't divulge all of that information since it is their recipe. That testing, especially when considering the sheer amount of flavorings that might be in a juice line is going to be expensive. If you're already selling juice and doing well at it that's all well and good you can probably afford it, still a hit to the profits but sure... How about if you're just trying to start up a juice line?
This is all of course based off the impression that I got that the op and you were calling for the government to make juice companies list their ingredients.. If you were just saying you think they should voluntarily that's whatevs, but I think they'd be fools to spend that type of dough on a list of words that most people can't pronounce let alone come up with the definition of without quite a bit of research in a market where most people are about simplicity and are coming from most times pack a day habits that were telling them right there on the box they were killing them. Maybe at some point in the future it will be easier to impliment such a thing or perhaps a single company out there will take note and do such of their own volition but no company should be forced to more or less give you the basis of their proprietary recipe. In my mind there seems to be such a big difference between the ingredient list on the back of a package of cookies and e-juice labels.
yeah yeah tldr. i kno
millions of years of evolution have given us the ability to desire what tastes good and equally on the other side, what tastes bad is a protective response to being eaten.... evolution is a wonderous thing 
1. We haven't been here for a million years.millions of years of evolution have given us the ability to desire what tastes good and equally on the other side, what tastes bad is a protective response to being eaten.... evolution is a wonderous thing
2. No such thing as evolution. We've been able to taste what is bad and good since the beginning....Creation is a wonderful thing.
1. We haven't been here for a million years.
2. No such thing as evolution. We've been able to taste what is bad and good since the beginning....Creation is a wonderful thing.
How long has the human race been on the planet earth then?
Earth may have been here for millions of years...but the human race around 6000 years. That's for another discussion though. I am by no means trying to argue points. Hell, its been argued for thousands of years and we are definitely not going to solve it here. We all have been given the oppurtunity to choose.
That's all good, but my view is: If it's in my juice I want to know!
Expect the label to weigh twice as much as the bottle itself then. Artificial or natural flavours is what it's - usually - allowed to be called.
Check any package of processed food or snacks. Doesn't say much else either. Which ingredients ( aka 'molecules ) as allowed to make these flavours is also regulated elsewhere.
In the EU for instance its a list of 200 pages densely printed paper as hardcopy. Chems listed there are allowed to manufacture flavours. For some maximum concetrations are lined out too.
A succesful flavour is worth money - don't expect the makers to lay open their trade secrets.
The most important thing as vapers is that we know that what we are inhaling has no harmful effect on the lung. The diacetyl risk is well known (popcorn lung), but there hasn't been sufficient research into the thousands of various chemicals that flavorings can be composed of. On this note, we honestly don't know enough. Ingesting these products may be considered relatively safe by many people if not done to excess. Remember, the dose makes the poison. Very small amounts of most substances probably are not that harmful, especially when compared to everything else in life. But, if it causes lung damage, it could potentially be as harmful as smoking. That's the question that at this time cannot be answered, even if you listed every one on a label.
Of course, there's lots of bad stuff in cigarettes. That's not news. If our vaping doesn't cause even greater levels of some toxic chemical, then it's always better than smoking.
It's gonna take a little time, money and research. Until that time, we can only stay away from the obvious problems, and try to minimize the risk of the unknown. Requiring some crazy labeling scheme when we don't even know the long term results of inhaling these seems like putting the cart before the horse. Just be careful, minimize the flavors, stay away from the obvious dangerous ones.
Of course, there's lots of bad stuff in cigarettes. That's not news. If our vaping doesn't cause even greater levels of some toxic chemical, then it's always better than smoking.
It's gonna take a little time, money and research. Until that time, we can only stay away from the obvious problems, and try to minimize the risk of the unknown. Requiring some crazy labeling scheme when we don't even know the long term results of inhaling these seems like putting the cart before the horse. Just be careful, minimize the flavors, stay away from the obvious dangerous ones.
Behaviorally modern humans have been around for about 50,000 years. Anatomically modern humans are a bit older, at around 200,000 years, but still not "millions."
Of course, we had already been evolving for quite a while before that point, as well...
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I guess it all depends on what your definition of human race id. At least until something else is discovered . I was going on homing and homo erectus. Basically when tools were being used. 1.8 million ago.
having only read the OP's title all I can think is going from smoking to vaping isn't giving up one addiction for another, it is changing the way you get the thing that you're actually addicted to, nicotine, into your system
Not arguing here, but these are my thoughts on this. 
"E-liquid is as addictive as cigarettes." Well, if they both have nicotine in them, then yes. I have to agree with that statement. On the other hand, I did not start vaping to quit nicotine, I vape to quit smoking and still get my nicotine, because I am an addict and I am man enough to admit it.
I have no idea what ingredients are in cigarettes, but I know they even include the sweepings from the floor. I smoked them for over 40 years without that list. I seriously doubt we will ever get that list.
I make my own juice. I know exactly what is in it if I make it unflavored. If I add flavorings, then I am at the mercy of the flavor maker. The chances of getting that list of ingredients is just about as slim as the one for cigarettes. It's just not gonna happen folks. Those are trade secrets and they are not going to give them up. The fact that any of them divulged which of theirs have diacetal in them surprised me. After 40+ years of smoking, for me to complain about the lack of a list of ingredients in flavorings would sound pretty hypocritical.
At this point, I am in this for harm reduction. How much harm reduction? I have no idea, but I can tell you that in just over 100 days of vaping, I feel so much better. I can breathe. I can sing for the first time in 20 years. Am I concerned about the ingredients? Yes, I am. That is part of the reason I make my own, but I don't think I know any more about the ingredients in my juice unless I use it unflavored. I have been experimenting with unflavored and it is not unpleasant. It has no taste at all and the vapor is nice and dense. I get my hit of nicotine and that is why I vape. I have pretty much decided that I want to switch completely to unflavored juice when my stash runs low. This should make my coils and wicking jobs last a whole lot longer. Since 4 friends also vape my juice, I will have to continue to make my custard, and it is so good that if it is in the cabinet, I am going to grab one of those bottles every time.
The flesh is weak.
"E-liquid is as addictive as cigarettes." Well, if they both have nicotine in them, then yes. I have to agree with that statement. On the other hand, I did not start vaping to quit nicotine, I vape to quit smoking and still get my nicotine, because I am an addict and I am man enough to admit it.
I have no idea what ingredients are in cigarettes, but I know they even include the sweepings from the floor. I smoked them for over 40 years without that list. I seriously doubt we will ever get that list.
I make my own juice. I know exactly what is in it if I make it unflavored. If I add flavorings, then I am at the mercy of the flavor maker. The chances of getting that list of ingredients is just about as slim as the one for cigarettes. It's just not gonna happen folks. Those are trade secrets and they are not going to give them up. The fact that any of them divulged which of theirs have diacetal in them surprised me. After 40+ years of smoking, for me to complain about the lack of a list of ingredients in flavorings would sound pretty hypocritical.
At this point, I am in this for harm reduction. How much harm reduction? I have no idea, but I can tell you that in just over 100 days of vaping, I feel so much better. I can breathe. I can sing for the first time in 20 years. Am I concerned about the ingredients? Yes, I am. That is part of the reason I make my own, but I don't think I know any more about the ingredients in my juice unless I use it unflavored. I have been experimenting with unflavored and it is not unpleasant. It has no taste at all and the vapor is nice and dense. I get my hit of nicotine and that is why I vape. I have pretty much decided that I want to switch completely to unflavored juice when my stash runs low. This should make my coils and wicking jobs last a whole lot longer. Since 4 friends also vape my juice, I will have to continue to make my custard, and it is so good that if it is in the cabinet, I am going to grab one of those bottles every time.
The flesh is weak.
Very good post Tmg666 and I was thinking along the same lines. Here is the ingredient list for a typical strawberry food flavoring. For anyone who doesn't feel like taking the time to check out those two links, you really should. It doesn't take long to get the point
So OK, now we know what's really in it. It doesn't help me though and I doubt that helps anyone else here either. So what do we really need to know about our flavorings?
Not arguing here, but these are my thoughts on this.
Beautiful, well thought and spoken post. I am in the same camp as you sir, just passing two years of vaping, after 45 years smoking. 63 years on, and my lungs at least, feel like I'm 25. Thank you for that nice commentary!
Not arguing here, but these are my thoughts on this.
"E-liquid is as addictive as cigarettes." Well, if they both have nicotine in them, then yes. I have to agree with that statement. On the other hand, I did not start vaping to quit nicotine, I vape to quit smoking and still get my nicotine, because I am an addict and I am man enough to admit it.
I have no idea what ingredients are in cigarettes, but I know they even include the sweepings from the floor. I smoked them for over 40 years without that list. I seriously doubt we will ever get that list.
I make my own juice. I know exactly what is in it if I make it unflavored. If I add flavorings, then I am at the mercy of the flavor maker. The chances of getting that list of ingredients is just about as slim as the one for cigarettes. It's just not gonna happen folks. Those are trade secrets and they are not going to give them up. The fact that any of them divulged which of theirs have diacetal in them surprised me. After 40+ years of smoking, for me to complain about the lack of a list of ingredients in flavorings would sound pretty hypocritical.
At this point, I am in this for harm reduction. How much harm reduction? I have no idea, but I can tell you that in just over 100 days of vaping, I feel so much better. I can breathe. I can sing for the first time in 20 years. Am I concerned about the ingredients? Yes, I am. That is part of the reason I make my own, but I don't think I know any more about the ingredients in my juice unless I use it unflavored. I have been experimenting with unflavored and it is not unpleasant. It has no taste at all and the vapor is nice and dense. I get my hit of nicotine and that is why I vape. I have pretty much decided that I want to switch completely to unflavored juice when my stash runs low. This should make my coils and wicking jobs last a whole lot longer. Since 4 friends also vape my juice, I will have to continue to make my custard, and it is so good that if it is in the cabinet, I am going to grab one of those bottles every time.
A most excellent post sir! These flavorings we inhale are very closely guarded proprietary secrets, your not going to get a list of them, not now, not ever. If you want to be sure and know what you are vaping, unflavored is the only way. We are, after all, a bunch of lab rats in a new and very exciting experiment. It really isn't known at this time what the long term effects of vaping PG and VG in the amounts that we do are. But for certain, it feels to these lungs that it is better than smoking. I hope I can say the same in ten years time, but then again, this will be just another anecdotal observation. Data has been tainted by 32+ years of smoking...
Yeah, but how am I supposed to know otherwise? Gov already tells me how much salt I should be intaking, if my ribeye steak is too fatty, how many times a week I should (statistically) have sex with my wife, and how many times I should pat my Golden Retriever on the head without being condescending to her, and thus politically incorrect. Or worse. So.....if they don't instruct me about vaping then how do I really know if I was right to give up a 45 year smoking habit for this? IDK, times are so confusing...
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