protected vs. unprotected IMR 18650s?

[GimmieMore]

Looking to order some batteries for the Vamo I am expecting.

18650 IMR seems to be the way to go... I've been comparing prices on a few websites that seem reputable.

On gotvapes I came across 18650 IMR high-drains in both protected and unprotected...

My instinct is to grab the protected ones, but I think I read something somewhere that says you shouldn't use the protected ones with APVs for some reason or another.

Thoughts?

 

[GimmieMore]

Ooo.... madvapes has better prices.... but they don't say protected/unprotected...
Hmm... decisions decisions...

Edit: but the button top ones are out of stock... ugh...

 

[Mr.Self_Destruct]

IMR refers to the battery's chemistry, IMR is referred to as a safer chemistry battery. You do not need a protected IMR battery for your Vamo.
I would suggest AW or efest batteries. Maybe even check out the IMR batteries that Madvapes carries.

If a battery is ICR, I would suggest going with protected.

Go with IMR batts they perform better and are safer chemistry.

 

[Mr.Self_Destruct]

You don't need button top batts in the vamo.

 

[GimmieMore]

Is the button top thing just to make up some extra size?

 

[GimmieMore]

I am looking at MadVapes IMR LiMn batts. None of the chargers send to correlate to that battery type though... Am I missing something??

 

[bubucis]

u can use unprotected batts beause vamo have a overcurent, temperature protection it self. Im usging panasonic NCR18650B 3.7V 3100mah and NCR18650B 3.6V 3400mah. With one batt i can vape 2 days and these batts working perfect! I am going thru 5-6ml per day and vaping on 4.5v with 2.5ohm clearo. These batts i get from ebay for about 15$.

 

[Baditude]

Try the prices at RTD Vapor. IMR unprotected are the best for a variable voltage battery. They are high drain, which means they can provide the high demands of a boost circuit better than the protected batteries can. I highly recommend the AW.

The Vamo already has protected circuitry that is far better than what any protected battery has.

 

[KeithB]

A few quick points:

1. IMR batteries are needed in the VAMO because they are able to deliver more power to the device. A protected ICR/LiCO battery will likely have it's protection circuit trip and cut power to the device when you attempt to use it unless you're vaping at a fairly low setting.

2. It's important to note that there do exist unprotected ICR/LiCO batteries. They should probably not be used by anyone for any reason. Some mods do have protection built in for this type of setup but if they don't, you have a very unsafe PV on your hands.

3. I believe the V1 version of the Vamo had issues with flat top batteries that were addressed in the V2. Some mods do require button tops but the Vamo isn't one of them. For example, the Provari has a recessed positive battery contact for reverse polarity protection; a flat top would not make contact.

 

[tj99959]

Basically if you are using Li Ion batteries, they need to be protected (ICR). If you are using Li Mn batteries, they don't need protection (IMR).
Button top batteries are for devices with recessed positive terminals. This has been a common practice for a long time, My TV remote control with recessed positive connections.

note:
All AW IMR batteries are button top.

 

[markfm]

For a boost PV the IMR are generally preferred, but one minor correction.

The old "have to use IMR, ICR can't supply the current" conventional wisdom doesn't apply with good, modern, high capacity batteries, unless a PV is really pushing a lot of watts. A pretty pedestrian protected AW ICR 2600 is rated for 2C, 5.2A, max discharge rate, and the trip will occur somewhere above that point. Assuming the VV is only 85% efficient (not too great a regulator), and the trip occurs at precisely 2C (it shouldn't), and your PV is set to output 15W (healthy, the max output for a Vamo 2 in VW mode), the battery will run down to about 3.4V (3.4V x 5.2A x 0.85) before nominally hitting the trip point.

This doesn't mean that the IMR aren't generally better under PV high amp loading, less sag, better total runtime, just that the AW high capacity protected ICR should also be acceptable technically (if they fit a PV). With batteries it depends on the specifics of a particular product.

 

[apdb90]

I'll jump on this thread rather than starting a new one.... preface this by apologizing if this is a stupid question. I'm a complete noob who probably has more money than brains (and I have little money). I just got a VAMO, and it's my first VV. Until this point, I've been using eGo.

I have a very similar question. Running a VAMO with Clearomizers at 2.5-2.9, and have been in the 4.0-4.5v range depending on the juice. I have access to a metric TON of AW Protected 2600,2900, and the new 3100maH batteries. Am I GTG with these, or should I stick with unprotected cells?

These are the AW's I'm referring to:

AW Battery AW 18650 Protected 2900 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery - AW18650-29

 

[Baditude]

Running a VAMO with Clearomizers at 2.5-2.9, and have been in the 4.0-4.5v range depending on the juice. I have access to a metric TON of AW Protected 2600,2900, and the new 3100maH batteries. Am I GTG with these, or should I stick with unprotected cells?

These are the AW's I'm referring to:

AW Battery AW 18650 Protected 2900 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery - AW18650-29

Ultimately, what does the manufacturer recommend?

I know Provape recommends only using IMR unprotected batteries (specifically AW brand) for the Provari. Something about the protection built into the protected batteries causing issues with the protection circuits in the Provari's processor.

Some devices are also picky about the type of top a battery has. Flat top vs button top.

Sorry not to give a more specific answer to your question. I know you will be giving up some "perceived" mah's by not using the protected batteries, but my feeling is you will actually get better and longer performance by using the IMR's. You don't need protected batteries in the VAMO, it already has protection circuitry built in.

And based on past experience, I have more faith in a mod's protective circuitry than I would trust what is built into a battery's.

I'll also refer to what the previous posters said:

1. IMR batteries are needed in the VAMO because they are able to deliver more power to the device. A protected ICR/LiCO battery will likely have it's protection circuit trip and cut power to the device when you attempt to use it unless you're vaping at a fairly low setting.

2. It's important to note that there do exist unprotected ICR/LiCO batteries. They should probably not be used by anyone for any reason. Some mods do have protection built in for this type of setup but if they don't, you have a very unsafe PV on your hands.

3. I believe the V1 version of the Vamo had issues with flat top batteries that were addressed in the V2. Some mods do require button tops but the Vamo isn't one of them. For example, the Provari has a recessed positive battery contact for reverse polarity protection; a flat top would not make contact.

For a boost PV the IMR are generally preferred, but one minor correction.

The old "have to use IMR, ICR can't supply the current" conventional wisdom doesn't apply with good, modern, high capacity batteries, unless a PV is really pushing a lot of watts. A pretty pedestrian protected AW ICR 2600 is rated for 2C, 5.2A, max discharge rate, and the trip will occur somewhere above that point. Assuming the VV is only 85% efficient (not too great a regulator), and the trip occurs at precisely 2C (it shouldn't), and your PV is set to output 15W (healthy, the max output for a Vamo 2 in VW mode), the battery will run down to about 3.4V (3.4V x 5.2A x 0.85) before nominally hitting the trip point.

This doesn't mean that the IMR aren't generally better under PV high amp loading, less sag, better total runtime, just that the AW high capacity protected ICR should also be acceptable technically (if they fit a PV). With batteries it depends on the specifics of a particular product.

 

[Racehorse]

I use high-drain IMRs for VV devices and mods that have protection circuitry build in.

I use protecteds for mechanical mods.

I see no reason to use IMRs with mechanical mods, as the demand on the battery while vaping at 3.7 or 4.0 just does not warrant it.

I also like protected batteries. If I use IMRs, I use with a fuse. I'm sort of safety obsessed. iI there is no circuitry build in that will automatically detect a problem. I meter my batteries when I take them off the charger, I let them "rest" too. I use a PILA charger because batteries and chargers are not the place to scrimp, IMHO.

If you trust your vendor, I would just use their recommendations. Read up at battery university, too.

 

[ThetaReactor]

Protected = ICR = LiCo, unprotected = IMR = LiMn.

They're all Li-ion. They use different materials, cobalt vs. manganese. The cobalt stuff provides better capacity, but they explode when they fail, hence the need for protection circuitry. The manganese batteries vent rather than exploding, which is why they're considered safer, unless you're using an unvented PV/pipe bomb.

IMR is better for most of our purposes. The extra capacity of the ICRs generally comes at the low end of the voltage curve, and if you're trying to pull high amps at that point they're going to cut themselves off anyway.

 

[apdb90]

Thanks for the replies. I'm running unprotected in it now, and it's not a big deal to add some unprotected cells into an order to AW if I need more. I was just curious with the comments regarding the new protected cells because that's what I have the most access to.

 

[markfm]

In a regulated single 18650 vv, the IMR will generally perform better, though it does depend on the specific pv. My prior post was just a general note - even two years ago you really had to go imr, but current higher capacity icr make them a possibility.

As previously noted, go by the pv maker's recommendation.

The tube pv I use is a stacked VV mod, with really nice electronic safeties. The best running batteries for it turn out to be a minimally protected ICR, one that just has a basic PTC; not recommended to use in any other pv, and my pv also runs fine with both standard protected icr and imr batteries. This is a case where the specific design permits multiple choices, though I still only use the list of batts that the designer recommends.

 

[steved5600]

Funny you should ask. I just ran into that problem. Bought 2 trustfire batteries and they won't work in one of my APV's. It won't work in my Vision VW but will work in my Provari. I failed to note the PCB on the description which also means BMS Battery Management System on the battery. It is meant to prevent draining the battery too low, etc.