Pg and vg???

[James416]

I was simply saying that there's the possibility of getting junk and better, ppl do certain things to it "WE" may not like, we can prevent this by doing some research and also looking at the msds.. If "WE" can get a better product then why not? And for the ppl talking about how we knowingly harm our bodies, I try pretty hard not to, smoking was an ADDICTION I didn't have a choice, I did buy high end because I know the cheap ones are worse.. It just amazes me all the ppl who's viewed this thread and nobody had info except when to debate..

 

[idle]

You have to remember PG and VG isn't intended for vaping or consuming for that matter,

PG has been thoroughly tested for inhalation. It can be found in fog machine liquid, which is commonly used at various concerts and events and would be inhaled by the attendees. It also can be found is medications that are inhaled such as my Asthma inhaler. It has also been used to treat air quality and has been released into the air in closed room situations.

Both PG & VG are rated as G.R.A.S and approved for Human consumption. Generally recognized as safe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edited to add link on Propylene Glycol which includes links to studies

http://www.vapersclub.com/pg.php

 

[idle]

Your point about not knowing what vendors may do is a valid one, but probably applies to the finished e-liquid product, not so much to the production of VG or PG. Unless you think someone is making PG & VG at home. I think you might have lost some people when you said you don't trust the VG or PG that comes from drug stores.

I also am not trying to down play the importance of being safe. My earlier point about knowingly harming ourselves was simply to put into contrast that what most of us tolerate as safe if probably much more harmful to us then inhaling PG or VG. My concern is not that people are taking a close look at PG and VG, it's just that there seems to be a level of fear about these products that don't exist with many everyday products. Before you by fruit or vegetables at the super market do you look for MSDS sheets on how they were produced? You may look into the source it came from or prefer to buy organic or grow your own (which is great) but you are holding PG & VG to a much higher standard that you do many other things (of course this is only speculation as I do not know what you do or don't do before you consume something).

If, in general, the public was as concerned about the quality of soda/pop as they were PG & VG there would be riots in the streets.

 

[Battlelance]

You have to remember PG and VG isn't intended for vaping or consuming for that matter, I doubt the brands sitting in the Walmart pharmacy really had our health in mind when making it..

First of all, you can't say something is or isn't intended for vaping, because no serious (that I'm aware of) studies have been done on the subject. Inhalation of a particular substance in e-liquid is another story.

As for consuming, they are intended for that use. Glycerin (whether devised from animal or plant based sources) can be taken internally and applied topically. Polypropylene glycol is used as a carrier in a number of products (including medicines (both injectable, ingestable and via inhalation)), and is FDA approved for inhalation. As a matter of fact, PG is used as a air disinfectant in hospitals.

Also, a MSDS is very different from a chemical analysis. MSDS is designed for basic handling safety, and a general reference in case of emergency for the specific product. I have a MSDS here for 4% acetic acid (white vinegar) that says it may cause irritation of the mouth/stomach, and to follow standard first aid in the case of an emergency, including administering CPR if required. I'm not aware of anyone requiring CPR after using vinegar, but whatever.

 

[Battlelance]

If, in general, the public was as concerned about the quality of soda/pop as they were PG & VG there would be riots in the streets.

Exactly. Sodium benzoate is a fantastic corrosion inhibitor and phosphoric acid makes a wonderful concrete etcher.

 

[James416]

First of all, you can't say something is or isn't intended for vaping, because no serious (that I'm aware of) studies have been done on the subject. Inhalation of a particular substance in e-liquid is another story.

As for consuming, they are intended for that use. Glycerin (whether devised from animal or plant based sources) can be taken internally and applied topically. Polypropylene glycol is used as a carrier in a number of products (including medicines (both injectable, ingestable and via inhalation)), and is FDA approved for inhalation. As a matter of fact, PG is used as a air disinfectant in hospitals.

Also, a MSDS is very different from a chemical analysis. MSDS is designed for basic handling safety, and a general reference in case of emergency for the specific product. I have a MSDS here for 4% acetic acid (white vinegar) that says it may cause irritation of the mouth/stomach, and to follow standard first aid in the case of an emergency, including administering CPR if required. I'm not aware of anyone requiring CPR after using vinegar, but whatever.

I think you all are misunderstanding why I started this thread for 1, and 2 I simply have been saying there is a difference between different brands and you will see that by looking at the msds, some of you were helpful sending me info to read, "what I've been looking for" not once have a said I'm an expert, I'm looking for info on it to learn, I asked the questions and nobody said anything, except to debate what I've said, I see I've attracted the most ignorant ppl on ECF that would prefer to debate rather then educate. It's a shame the little bit of info givin was given in debate rather then help me and others learn more about what me and others are vaping.. There's always gunna be a better and safer product!!! I'm not gunna waste my time with this thread anymore. Thx for the help lol

 

[idle]

I hope I'm not coming across as dismissive about this issue. I'm not tying to suggest 'just shut up and vape it'. I'm absolutely in favour of taking a close look at what is in these products. But lets not reinvent the wheel here. PG & VG have been extensively tested already. As to your point about the lack of responses including scientific data, it's not that they don't exist, maybe just that people are not sitting here waiting to post them each time these questions are asked.

 

[MisterMike]

You have to remember PG and VG isn't intended for vaping or consuming for that matter, I doubt the brands sitting in the Walmart pharmacy really had our health in mind when making it..

This is where I disagree. USP is a standard set down to ensure the quality and purity of a product, precisely for health reasons. It states maximum acceptable levels of certain impurities, and if the product goes over those levels on any of the tests, it's not USP grade any more. The sheet that's been linked to gives the results of one such test on a (presumably) random sample of their VG, and quite honestly, the results are very favourable for the product. They look for these things in any product manufactured to USP standards.

For example, it tested out at less than 0.1 ppm for arsenic. As has been stated, that's equivalent to 0.1 mg/L. Some quick research shows that the minimum lethal dose of arsenic is approximately 1mg/kg/day. I would have to consume 10 litres per kilogram of my body mass per day to even get close to dying from arsenic poisoning. In my case, that's 660 litres, so I think that it's reasonably safe for me to consume a few mL per day. Not completely harmless, but when compared with the tens of parts per million of arsenic in cigarette smoke, I know for sure I'm better off vaping.

I agree that we don't know what steps this stuff goes through when being processed into e-liquid. I'm sure nothing particularly bad happens, but I can't be certain. If I were overly concerned, I'd feel a lot safer doing my DIY, because I know that my USP PG and USP glycerin goes directly from the source bottle into my e-liquid.

Sure, it's not 100% safe, but then again, neither is anything else in this world. Hell, for the first seven or so years of my life, I was exposed daily to highly elevated levels of atmospheric lead, courtesy of the Ethyl corporation. I'm still around.

Edit: I think debate is a healthy thing. It's a civilized exchange of differing ideas, after which both parties can make up their own minds.

I'd also stop throwing around the word "ignorant" (read: uninformed). It seems as though anyone who has responded has taken the time to inform themselves on the subject, and they've drawn their own conclusions based on the data available.

 

[idle]

I think you all are misunderstanding why I started this thread for 1, and 2 I simply have been saying there is a difference between different brands and you will see that by looking at the msds, some of you were helpful sending me info to read, "what I've been looking for" not once have a said I'm an expert, I'm looking for info on it to learn, I asked the questions and nobody said anything, except to debate what I've said, I see I've attracted the most ignorant ppl on ECF that would prefer to debate rather then educate. It's a shame the little bit of info givin was given in debate rather then help me and others learn more about what me and others are vaping.. There's always gunna be a better and safer product!!! I'm not gunna waste my time with this thread anymore. Thx for the help lol

I think you are being a bit too sensitive here. You asked for opinions, so why call people ignorant because you don't like the opinions they offered?

Your original question was basically 'where is the best place to get PG & VG in Canada' or 'who makes the safest PG & VG'. My reply was that (in my opinion) any USP Grade PG would be very similar to each other. Another poster suggested a drug store. Just because you don't like the answer your receiving does not mean we are ignorant or not understanding your question.

I hope you find the answer you are looking for. If you can return here with some evidence that shows that Doug's Chemical Company in Bracebridge Ontario has the cleanest PG with the best looking MSDS then that would benefit all of us and I would be appreciative.

Cheers

 

[Battlelance]

I think you all are misunderstanding why I started this thread for 1, and 2 I simply have been saying there is a difference between different brands and you will see that by looking at the msds, some of you were helpful sending me info to read, "what I've been looking for" not once have a said I'm an expert, I'm looking for info on it to learn, I asked the questions and nobody said anything, except to debate what I've said, I see I've attracted the most ignorant ppl on ECF that would prefer to debate rather then educate. It's a shame the little bit of info givin was given in debate rather then help me and others learn more about what me and others are vaping.. There's always gunna be a better and safer product!!! I'm not gunna waste my time with this thread anymore. Thx for the help lol

Debate? What debate? We're simply providing you with more information, and in some cases, clarifying some misinformation you seem to have. If this was not at all helpful to you, or you choose to dismiss it, then I hope this thread helps someone else who might have the same questions as you.

This is the end of this thread for me. Good luck in your search.

Sincerely,
Some Ignorant Dude