Organic USP Vegetable Glycerin VG Base?

[vapesmooth123]

Looking for Palm based, not soy (possible allergen).
I thought Organic VG became popular a couple years ago but apparently not. There's a few threads about this already but with not much answers, mostly a lot of people saying organic is a scam or unnecessary because non organic would be just as pure as organic and that the particular extraction methods etc are what determines cleanliness mostly. Well, I'm also just trying to be nice and buy organic since this is palm oil which has a horrible rep in terms of environmental destruction (although I think they'll soon/eventually get it under control, weird thing is I almost never see it in the ingredients in food I buy) so I hope growing it organic helps some.

Anyway, here's someone's thread and the link after that was suggested but it's not even USP and therefore shouldn't be vaped, and is also expensive. If anything at most, organic should be about 3X the price of non organic for a specialty item like this (or only 2X if something like an apple). You can find a gallon of VG non organic USP with free delivery for under $20 each when you buy two, not $65 a gallon plus shipping for the organic in the second link.

Where can I find pure organic VG?

Vegetable Glycerin, Organic

What do you think about these here claiming to be organic? Price is good and is Palm based and USP and meant for vaping.
123seesix | eBay

1 GALLON PURE ORGANIC NON-GMO VEGETABLE GLYCERIN FOOD GRADE VG USP. 128 OZ.

Someone left negative feedback saying FRAUD! SELLING BIOWASTE GLYCERIN AS ORGANIC! NO >USDA < SEAL!means NOT ORGANIC!


USDA organic seal = only if grown in the US if I'm not mistaken, and I don't think they even produce Palm VG in the US, so maybe the feedback is wrong? However @ $33 a gallon with shipping free anywhere in the US (~$9 heavy item), plus the ebay %8-%10 fee and paypal's %3, the deal is a bit too good to be true. Also, if you look they have gallons with the bottle label saying organic but the smaller bottles they sell as organic also but the bottle label doesn't even say organic. I think they would make a big deal about it being organic and not forget to have the label say Organic.

Actually scratch that, the seller claims it a product of USA on the actual label. I think it's BS. There's barely any Palm oil production in the US also.

Palm oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palm oil in the US

United States Palm Oil Production by Year (1000 MT)

Plants: Can Palm Oil tree be grow in large scale in USA? - Quora


So just stick to regular USP VG I guess.

 

[BrotherBob]

What do you think about these here claiming to be organic?

Whatever VG taste good to me and has the USP on the label is just fine.

 

[FACE MEAT]

Edit: Apologies, I was drunk.

 

[vapesmooth123]

The point obviously is if there's such a thing readily available as Organic USP VG, less the derailment other threads have about "non organic is just as good because it's refined so much that the source doesn't matter".

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The high-end nic concentrate manufacturer carolinaxtract.com states their nic can have the base option of Organic USP VG. So obviously it is used in vaping but that ebay source seems shady and actually too cheap.




100MG/1ML Supercritical Nicotine in USP/PG or USDA Certified Organic VG

Carolina Xtraction Technologies Corp CXTC

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I just found this too. Key word USP vs other "non USP organic vegetable glycerin".
Certified Organic Glycerin @ Draco Natural Products
It says it's Corn based instead of the common Palm derived. Soy based wouldn't be used by juice manufacturers for those who are allergic to Soy.

I assume as long as it's USP and not soy based (I'm not soy allergic but just saying in general) it's safe but I'm not sure at all.

"While there is a glut of industrially produced conventional glycerin in the market, Pure Organics™ is one of the only processors of USP Grade certified organic glycerin."

"Get ready for a whole new organic world of possibilities for your cosmetics, personal care, and food products. Thanks to a new, sustainable process developed and patented by scientists at Pure Organics™, USP grade 99.7% pure certified organic glycerin is now commercially available. This is great news for formulators who would like to make an organic product, but are having difficulty sourcing the organic glyerin they need to attain an organic label claim for the product."



Edit: Found another source. Not sure how price compares to others since they go by weight. And not sure if it's Soy or Corn or Palm etc based.
Glycerin Organic Raw Material


Here's another but it's Soy based,
Organic Vegetable Glycerin | Inesscents
and it's $109 a gallon plus shipping
Organic Vegetable Glycerin | Inesscents

$29.99 a gallon plus shipping , and from a vape/CBD shop so I guess I found it:
VEGETABLE GLYCERIN USP ORGANIC 1 GALLON SOURCED IN USA

Also this for $34 shipped gallon eBay. Seems a bit shady but could be real. Gallon in picture doesn't say Organic though and might be using the term "organic compound" to deceive.
Pure Organic One Gallon Vegetable Glycerin USP VG Kosher 99.9% Pure Food Grade

$72 plus shipping per gallon but soy based
Palm-Free Organic Glycerin - Wholesale - FNWL

Palm derived and USP but minimum order is 20 tons from China
Usp Grade Organic Vegetable Glycerin For Natural Hair /100% Natural Palm Oil Glycerin - Buy Organic Vegetable Glycerin,Technical Grade Glycerin,Refined Glycerine Usp Grade 99.5% Product on Alibaba.com

$800 per ton
Natural Organic Refined Glycerine Usp Grade - Buy Glycerine,Refined Glycerine,Glycerine Usp Grade Product on Alibaba.com


New Zealand I think but it says "not Palm based" so it's possibly Soy based
Vegetable Glycerine, Organic - Solvents - Cosmetic Ingredients - PureNature
"This Glycerine does not contain any Palm oil derivatives and is Pharmaceutical grade, meeting the specifications of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).
It may be used internally and is fit for use in vaporising formulations."


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Maybe the following is why some are using the misleading title of Organic when the plants grown to make the VG are possibly not even organic.
"Vegetable Glycerin also known as glycerol or “VG” for short, is a clear and odorless organic compound, made from soy, palm, or coconut oil, that has been gaining in popularity."
from 1 Gallon Vegetable Glycerin USP Kosher - FREE SHIPPING***

Basically how PG is an 'organic compound' but not actually organic plant grown.


Here's USP Organic derived from mustard seeds @ $74 a gallon + shipping
Certified Organic Glycerin USP


Pre-mixed juice with organic USP VG base
"Ingredients: certified organic, USP (pharmaceutical grade) vegetable glycerin, certified organic flavors, distilled water. Pharmaceutical grade nicotine and pharmaceutical grade propylene glycol if requested."
Flavors

More pre-mixed juice with USP organic VG base
"Our organic USP vegetable glycerin comes from a US company, but the glycerin itself is sourced in India, from palm fruit."
How Sarcastic Fringehead eJuice is Born | Premium Organic e-Juice – SFVapery

This looks like another deceiving with the organic (organic compound) title
Vaporium Vapors | Online Vape Shop

another possibly not actually organic
ORGANIC VEGETABLE GLYCERIN






Basically I googled through the first 6 pages of "organic vegetable glycerin usp" and only linked the results that are actually USP and organic. Results seems to die off after page 6. Anyway, I think I'll pass for now and just get non organic but maybe someone who knows more about the safety of these than me can chime in if they're interested in this which I think a lot of vapers would like their VG base to be from Organically grown plants.

 

[FACE MEAT]

Edit: Apologies, I was drunk.

 

[plumeguy]

Didn't sign out. My mistake.

 

[vapesmooth123]

Requesting MODS to remove snarky, obsolete comments in this thread, in attempts to make a good thread for those interested in USP VG organically grown.

 

[dannyv45]

I've been using essential depot VG for years now and find it works well for me regardless of if it's organic or not. But thank you for the education. I can't say I grasped it all it's just to much information at one time for my mind to handle especially at this late hour. I'm not really into pure natural organics where vaping is concerned being 90% of the flavoring for vaping is chemically derived. But I would have to say for some this topic does have valid merit.

 

[mhertz]

I'm sorry I can not help you out mate, but I enjoyed your postings and applaud your nice researching and hope you find what you're looking for

Agreed, remove the totally-inapropriate comments please!

 

[Dixie1954]

I am confused as EDs VG is Palm derived >>> and at less than $20 each gallon shipped is a great deal >>> Glycerin Vegetable KOSHER USP - 2 x 1 Gallon Containers - FREE US SHIPPING

 

[vapesmooth123]

The whole point is that USP Organic VG is from organically grown palm trees.

I wonder if the organic corn and/or mustard seed VGs are vape'able and not a known allergen such as the Soy derived VG which shouldn't be used for vaping (for personal use and if you're not Soy allergic I guess it wouldn't' be a problem if it's USP but don't take my word for it but I'm just saying in general for E juice use venders shouldn't sell Soy VG without disclosing, although this might be easily overlooked by some assuming there's no Soy).

 

[mhertz]

I'm sure alot of ejuice is made of soy VG, and many suppliers switch up feedstock from time to time, sometimes palm, sometimes soy, sometimes rapeseed etc. One big supplier of US soy VG states it's allergen free as no actual soy in final product. The glycerol portion of VGs is the exact same no matter mustard seed, corn or palm, and if there are leftovers, it's very very low, and most else is water. I'm guessing the point in COAs called 'fatty acids and esters' is what's the leftovers(could be wrong though), and in EP glycerin it's allowed I believe 0.02% and i'm just now looking at a COA stating 0.004%. Note i'm guessing here only, sorry... It could be non-feedstock still, as i'm no expert, just an avid reader/researcher I'm guessing it's feedstock material because VG is glycerol splited from the fat/oil(fatty acids), well of course the glycerol itself is also coming from the feedstock, but glycerol e.g. found in different veg-oils or even animal-fat or any fat or oil, is the same IF all the rest fatty acids are distilled out of the triglycerides(fatty acids and glycerol combined) and no other extraction-solvent contaminents(alkaline solutions if not using hydrolysis of high heat, water and pressure solely, I believe)...

I'm not saying to not go continue your hunting for organic grown feedstock VG, but i'm saying that vaping corn, rapeseed, mustard-seed etc VG is fine i'm pretty sure...

In EU, then many VGs state palm-free on them so as to advertise that they don't contribute to the deforestation issues of palm-derived products and so mostly non-gmo rapeseed is used because it's abundant in EU so they don't have to import palm from e.g. indonisia/malaysia which I guess is more expensive...

 

[retired1]

The reason why many are going to soy based glycerin is due to the growing concern of the destruction of palm trees. (Whether it's warranted or not is for another discussion on sites more suitable for such things.)

Currently, the three major sources for vegetable glycerin are palm, coconut and soy. As more start climbing on "don't use VG derived from palm trees" bandwagon, you're going to see a lot more use of VG derived from soy.

 

[mhertz]

Many advertise with the deforestation issues, but I personally suspect it's much more about the lower cost of using local feedstock like soy, rapeseed and corn etc, vs having to import e.g. palm kernel oil from indonisa/malaysia, but I could be wrong though.

Some big players in the palm industry like musim-mas has made an organisation for making the palm growth non-destructive, but it still has a lot of critics stating they don't do a good enough job...

"What is Certified Sustainable Palm Oil? We call it palm oil that was certified by the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO) according to specific criteria."

"The Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO) was established in 2004 to promote the production and use of sustainable palm oil for people, the planet and prosperity. Forty per cent of the world’s palm oil producers are members of the RSPO, as well as many product manufacturers"

VG from nicotine-river and liquid-barn(musim-mas) is RSPO palm-derived VG, btw...

The glycerol portion of glycerin/VG, which VG is almost entirely consisting off, in addition to water, is the exact same no matter if palm or soy or human or animal fat! - this is something many don't realise, so sorry for repeating myself(not the OP though )...

 

[vapesmooth123]

I was definitely thinking VG from Soy might not be an allergen to people with a Soy allergy because it's so highly refined. I thought I wrote that actually.

Anyway, good stuff.
I guess if the large scale manufacturer of the soy based VG states it's allergen-free such as you found, then a vender buying from them doesn't have to worry about those people with a soy allergy.

And as mhertz said, I guess it's fine to vape any USP VG whether it's soy, rapeseed, mustard, coconut, corn, (I wouldn't touch human/animal-derived VG though).

That's kind of what I'm waiting for confirmation now, if anyone knows %100 if it's fine to vape these USP VGs whether it's soy, rapeseed, mustard, corn. Because the Organic versions are linked above, although pricey and possibly the same amount of 'clean' as non-organic, but there's always people who prefer organics.

 

[vapesmooth123]

Some have said the VG is too refined for someone with a soy/corn/coconut allergy to worry about what it's derived from but Essential Depot says:

Essential Depot Vegetable Glycerin is distilled from SOY or PALM products and each meet a minimum purity specification of 99.7+%. The 0.3% remainder is usually water as glycerin readily absorbs moisture from the air which is difficult to completely remove during the distillation process. There is no residue of the original feedstock in the Vegetable Glycerin Essential Depot provides according to the specifications from the two major manufacturers from which Essential Depot purchases its Vegetable Glycerin. That is not to say that someone who is allergic to SOY or PALM based products can safely use products made with Essential Depot Vegetable Glycerin. Essential Depot always recommends to test to ascertain if this Vegetable Glycerin will cause a reaction before it is used. Further, each manufacturer’s testing confirms no residue of any GMO components.

Side note, it's probably GMO soy considering the last sentence.

http://www.essentialdepot.com/product/CUBE-4VG-SOY.html

 

[mhertz]

Some have said the VG is too refined for someone with a soy/corn/coconut allergy to worry about what it's derived from but Essential Depot says:

Essential Depot Vegetable Glycerin is distilled from SOY or PALM products and each meet a minimum purity specification of 99.7+%. The 0.3% remainder is usually water as glycerin readily absorbs moisture from the air which is difficult to completely remove during the distillation process. There is no residue of the original feedstock in the Vegetable Glycerin Essential Depot provides according to the specifications from the two major manufacturers from which Essential Depot purchases its Vegetable Glycerin. That is not to say that someone who is allergic to SOY or PALM based products can safely use products made with Essential Depot Vegetable Glycerin. Essential Depot always recommends to test to ascertain if this Vegetable Glycerin will cause a reaction before it is used. Further, each manufacturer’s testing confirms no residue of any GMO components.

Side note, it's probably GMO soy considering the last sentence.

glyCUBE - 4 gallons SOY DERIVED Vegetable Glycerin - Volume Discounts

Yes, i've read that before, but just think it's about liability issues ... They state:

"There is no residue of the original feedstock in the Vegetable Glycerin Essential Depot provides according to the specifications from the two major manufacturers from which Essential Depot purchases its Vegetable Glycerin."

Then how could it possibly corrolate with soy allergy?

ADM, a really big glycerin maker in US, probably where ED also gets there soy VG from, has this stated from one of there big exporters:

"Our glycerine is distilled from Soy products and is a minimum specification of 99.7% purity. The 0.3% remainder is usually water as glycerine readily absorbs moisture from the air and is difficult to completely remove during the distillation process. There is no residue of the original feedstock in the glycerine for those who are concerned about possible allergens.

Made in the USA."

You can see ED copy pasted from this, but because they want no liability if ADM has somehow screwed up with there product, added there own disclaimer...

I'm no expert either, but if no original feedstock is in the end-product, then the actual feedstock used, and possible allergies thereof, is irrelevant imho... No soy, means no soy-allergy... It's impossible to be allergic to "only the glycerol part" of soy, as then you're allergic to all fats and oils out there, as glycerol is universal... If soy-derived VG triggers soy-allergies, then the VG-manufacturer is lying about the no feedstock in end-product thing, or has screwed up a batch...

It's used in food too this brand states, and it will just state 'glycerin' on ingredients-list on the back i'm sure...

 

[Capt.shay]

Some have said the VG is too refined for someone with a soy/corn/coconut allergy to worry about what it's derived from but Essential Depot says:

Essential Depot Vegetable Glycerin is distilled from SOY or PALM products and each meet a minimum purity specification of 99.7+%. The 0.3% remainder is usually water as glycerin readily absorbs moisture from the air which is difficult to completely remove during the distillation process. There is no residue of the original feedstock in the Vegetable Glycerin Essential Depot provides according to the specifications from the two major manufacturers from which Essential Depot purchases its Vegetable Glycerin. That is not to say that someone who is allergic to SOY or PALM based products can safely use products made with Essential Depot Vegetable Glycerin. Essential Depot always recommends to test to ascertain if this Vegetable Glycerin will cause a reaction before it is used. Further, each manufacturer’s testing confirms no residue of any GMO components.

Side note, it's probably GMO soy considering the last sentence.

glyCUBE - 4 gallons SOY DERIVED Vegetable Glycerin - Volume Discounts

This is a CYA statement. The true take away line here is:

There is no residue of the original feedstock in the glycerine for those who are concerned about possible allergens.

 

[mhertz]

100% agreed - Although had to look "CYA statement" up, lol

I believe the above, but just am slightly puzzled about the COA-entry/USP/EP-monograph-section of "FFA and esters" as this sounds like original feedstock to me, although not sure... Glycerol is splitted from the fatty acids(veg-oil i.e. feedstock) when making glycerin(3 FFAs and one glycerol molecule in each triglyceride, which the veg-oils, and all other fats and oils are made up off), so any fatty acids in end-product sounds strange, but the COA of this ADM glycerin just states PASS and not how much present, just passes spec, which I hate when manufacturers do that like often with nic COAs... I'm possibly wrong here, since the "no feedstock" part thing... One other really clean rapeseed-derived VG(99.9% glycerol) stated the FFA/Ester amount as 0.004 or so, which is crazy low, but again I don't really know if i'm mistaken something here...

 

[vapesmooth123]

The high-end nic concentrate manufacturer carolinaxtract.com states their nic can have the base option of Organic USP VG. So obviously it is used in vaping

also just wanted to chime back in that I noticed on a Virgin Vapor bottle I have, it says certified Organic USP grade Vegetable Glycein as an ingredient. The bottle is from a year+ ago. Dunno If it's soy based or what but just saying, if the palm based (from palm fruit or something and not palm coconut, and not a known allergen at all if I'm not mistaken), if the Palm kind is harder to find as Organic vs the other kinds which are known allergens, then I would think they're using a known-allergen based VG. Even mustard and corn are allergens to some people.