I've been reading where using a milk frother helps to speed up steep time. Is it worth it to buy one? If so, which one do you use? I hear Ikea has inexpensive ones but there is no Ikea store near me. I've also checked on Amazon and many complaints have been that even the more expensive ones don't last very long. Tell me about your experience with using a milk frother and if you find it actually does speed up the steep time and how long you have been using it for mixing.
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The only thing a milk frother will truly speed up is the mixing of all your ingredients, which is helpful but it won't truly speed up the steep time. The only thing I know of that truly steeps e-juice is TIME, nothing else will produce the same results, at least nothing I know of anyway. Ask a vintner (wine maker) to mature a bottle of wine in a week & he will laugh in your face, its simply not possible.
I'm no expert by any means but I have done a LOT of research on steeping. From what Ive heard, steeping or maturing e-juice occurs when the flavor molecules bond with oxygen molecules & stabilize, this is why the flavor profile develops & "richens", its a chemical process that takes times & there are no true shortcuts through this process.
From what I hear though you can "possibly" shave a few days to a week maximum off the steep time by utilizing a couple methods however, I haven't seen anyone do side by side comparisons to prove this. The alleged methods are a milk frother & a ultrasonic cleaner. Your supposed to mix your recipe in a beaker or graduated cylinder & then use the milk frother to agitate & thoroughly mix all the ingredients, do this until its milky with bubbles (some say to do this a few times, e.g., get it milky, let it clear & rinse & repeat) then poor it in a bottle, secure the cap tightly & then place it in a ultrasonic cleaner for several sessions.
I haven't tried these methods personally so I can't speak from experience on this but from what I heard people swear it helps. I would love to see someone do a side by side test on this, making 2 bottles of the exact same recipe, placing one in a drawer & use the milk frother & ultrasonic cleaner on the other, then bust em out in a week & see if there is any noticeable difference. If anyone has the means & interested to do this I would love to hear the results.
I'm no expert by any means but I have done a LOT of research on steeping. From what Ive heard, steeping or maturing e-juice occurs when the flavor molecules bond with oxygen molecules & stabilize, this is why the flavor profile develops & "richens", its a chemical process that takes times & there are no true shortcuts through this process.
From what I hear though you can "possibly" shave a few days to a week maximum off the steep time by utilizing a couple methods however, I haven't seen anyone do side by side comparisons to prove this. The alleged methods are a milk frother & a ultrasonic cleaner. Your supposed to mix your recipe in a beaker or graduated cylinder & then use the milk frother to agitate & thoroughly mix all the ingredients, do this until its milky with bubbles (some say to do this a few times, e.g., get it milky, let it clear & rinse & repeat) then poor it in a bottle, secure the cap tightly & then place it in a ultrasonic cleaner for several sessions.
I haven't tried these methods personally so I can't speak from experience on this but from what I heard people swear it helps. I would love to see someone do a side by side test on this, making 2 bottles of the exact same recipe, placing one in a drawer & use the milk frother & ultrasonic cleaner on the other, then bust em out in a week & see if there is any noticeable difference. If anyone has the means & interested to do this I would love to hear the results.
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I have been using an Ikea milk frother for awhile now.
What I do is mix my mix in a graduated glass I bought a Walmart. Then I put it in a sauce pan of very warm water.
I mix with the frother for a couple of minutes until it has the consistency of water
The reason I do this is so that the VG will thin out and bubbles ( flavoring ) can get into the whole mix.
As far as speed steeping goes, your guess is as good as mine. But to me, I can taste a difference when not using this method..
What I do is mix my mix in a graduated glass I bought a Walmart. Then I put it in a sauce pan of very warm water.
I mix with the frother for a couple of minutes until it has the consistency of water
The reason I do this is so that the VG will thin out and bubbles ( flavoring ) can get into the whole mix.
As far as speed steeping goes, your guess is as good as mine. But to me, I can taste a difference when not using this method..
I've seen some hilarious innovative ideas for shaking juice. I've also seen or read someone attaching a bottle to a fan, an oscillating tool, a sander and a Sawzall. I have a back massager that has a vigorous vibration 
. I might try to tape a bottle on it and see what happens.
Whether shaking the juice actually reduces steep time or not, I understand that it's important to really get the flavors mixed so I'll be trying different ways to do that and see what happens. Hmmm, I also have a vibrating Shiatsu chair. Maybe I can give my self a massage and mix my juice at the same time.
. I might try to tape a bottle on it and see what happens. Whether shaking the juice actually reduces steep time or not, I understand that it's important to really get the flavors mixed so I'll be trying different ways to do that and see what happens. Hmmm, I also have a vibrating Shiatsu chair. Maybe I can give my self a massage and mix my juice at the same time.
Using a milk frother does two things:
1: Mixes up the ingredients really well - this is a good thing.
2: Aerates the mixture and oxodises the nicotine - this may be a good or bad thing depending who you are reading at the time.
I use a frother and it makes for a better tasting liquid quicker and faster. If you're worried about oxidising the nic then use a narrow deep container to froth in and ensure the frother is right at the bottom of it so you get the least amount of air into it.
1: Mixes up the ingredients really well - this is a good thing.
2: Aerates the mixture and oxodises the nicotine - this may be a good or bad thing depending who you are reading at the time.
I use a frother and it makes for a better tasting liquid quicker and faster. If you're worried about oxidising the nic then use a narrow deep container to froth in and ensure the frother is right at the bottom of it so you get the least amount of air into it.
I don't use nicotine in my juices, it's just VG and flavoring so that won't be a problem for me. I'm going to keep my eye out for a frother at Big Lots or some discount place.
Here is one to consider... IKEA Produkt Milk Frother Silver Color Frothes Milk IN15 20 Secods Cold and Hot | eBay
Hey great idea I will just use my vibratory tumbler for cleaning shell cases I'm a re loader I could fit a ton of my bottles into it. Hmm
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Hi all!
You should avoid any mixing strategy which dissolves oxygen.
Yeah, I'm from that think-tank. I'm also a professional chemist, and not in the sense of 'professional vaper'..
Anyway, the crucial part is why. Flavours are concentrated colloids in PG (false dissolutions of both hydrophobic and hydrophyllic substances) and the maturing process (steeping up, I did not see that phrasal coming, English is not my mother's language) ought to rearrange the micelar part in new stable aggregations, a whole new colloid.
And that, in organic matrixes (I.e. , the solvent is mostly derived from hydrocarbon chains) really is a slow process.
Mechanical stirring just homogenise that matrix, but it does not fully rearrange its components. Time does, quicker in hot, but hot also poses a serious risk of other unwanted and discontrolled reactions... So...
Let it gently mature in cold (not refrigerated), dark places and be patient. The waiting should be worthwhile..
Tapatalking..Mind those lampposts!
P.D.: I forgot to tell you about the oxygen thing, but it might be pretty clear. Not only the oxidization of some components could ruin your long-waited flavour, it could interfiere with the rearrangment of all micelles...
Any micelle, i.e., aggregation of flavout molecules in their original PG matrix, to be rearranged to another new micelles in the final e-liquid, if partially oxidized should show different properties about flavouring, and what is worse, could be dramatically changed in the functional groups, those which work in team to render the sought flavour and make possible new bondings to rearrange the micelles. Something that, unless stated by the manufacturer, we should avoid. Do not mix with aeration!
As a matter of fact, I cannot recall of any flavour in which the manufacturer advises to get a good aeration to oxidize anything! Maybe they exist, but....
You should avoid any mixing strategy which dissolves oxygen.
Yeah, I'm from that think-tank. I'm also a professional chemist, and not in the sense of 'professional vaper'..
Anyway, the crucial part is why. Flavours are concentrated colloids in PG (false dissolutions of both hydrophobic and hydrophyllic substances) and the maturing process (steeping up, I did not see that phrasal coming, English is not my mother's language) ought to rearrange the micelar part in new stable aggregations, a whole new colloid.
And that, in organic matrixes (I.e. , the solvent is mostly derived from hydrocarbon chains) really is a slow process.
Mechanical stirring just homogenise that matrix, but it does not fully rearrange its components. Time does, quicker in hot, but hot also poses a serious risk of other unwanted and discontrolled reactions... So...
Let it gently mature in cold (not refrigerated), dark places and be patient. The waiting should be worthwhile..
Tapatalking..Mind those lampposts!
P.D.: I forgot to tell you about the oxygen thing, but it might be pretty clear. Not only the oxidization of some components could ruin your long-waited flavour, it could interfiere with the rearrangment of all micelles...
Any micelle, i.e., aggregation of flavout molecules in their original PG matrix, to be rearranged to another new micelles in the final e-liquid, if partially oxidized should show different properties about flavouring, and what is worse, could be dramatically changed in the functional groups, those which work in team to render the sought flavour and make possible new bondings to rearrange the micelles. Something that, unless stated by the manufacturer, we should avoid. Do not mix with aeration!
As a matter of fact, I cannot recall of any flavour in which the manufacturer advises to get a good aeration to oxidize anything! Maybe they exist, but....
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Hi scaredmice,
You're talking way over my head but then again I'm a noob. Are you saying we shouldn't mix the juice at all and just let it sit and vigorous mixing is counterproductive?
If so, why would there be so many testimonials on how intense mixing improves flavor and could possibly speed up steeping? I'm just learning.
I think he's saying that mixing is OK but oxidising isn't. I think.
I just mixed up 100ml of base using my frother but without getting it aerated. We'll see how it works out.
I just mixed up 100ml of base using my frother but without getting it aerated. We'll see how it works out.
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He's saying that airation is bad as it quickly oxidizes nicotine and introduces unnessessay oxigenation which causes unpredictable bonding of flavor molecules. Steeping with heat is a better choice but again although not as severe can cause unpredictable bonding of flavor molecules. Natural steeping is best. And I agree.
I do heat steep when in a hurry and testing but for the most part I make enough to be able to rotate my mixes giving them enough time to allow them to steep naturally.
I do heat steep when in a hurry and testing but for the most part I make enough to be able to rotate my mixes giving them enough time to allow them to steep naturally.
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Yes, the short tale would be that one: mix it, as strongly as you like or could, but avoid aeration. If you're using a close bottle, just the top closed air chamber (as it is unavoidable). If the bottle or flask is open, then reduce the stirring to avoid the aeration (formation of bubbles).
Heat would help in mixing, but remember to avoid long exposures, as heat, if prolonged or too strong, could also get undesirable results.
In any chance, the rearrangment of the micellar solution (the colloid) that we call steep up or macerate, cannot be sped with stirring, as it does not affect the micelles too much. It only renders an homogenized mixture of the base and original flavour components (as they appear on the concentrated flavours), but the final maceration (rearrangment of the colloid) is to be achieved just with some time.
Heat would help in mixing, but remember to avoid long exposures, as heat, if prolonged or too strong, could also get undesirable results.
In any chance, the rearrangment of the micellar solution (the colloid) that we call steep up or macerate, cannot be sped with stirring, as it does not affect the micelles too much. It only renders an homogenized mixture of the base and original flavour components (as they appear on the concentrated flavours), but the final maceration (rearrangment of the colloid) is to be achieved just with some time.
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Wow, some interesting takes on mixing ejuice batches.
i would stick with a magnetic stir plate / with teflon stir magnet.
got mine here:
Brew Smarter with A Stirstarter Magnetic Stir Plate for Home Brewers | eBay
42$ hard to beat:
My video on my digital scale and stir plate in action !
i would stick with a magnetic stir plate / with teflon stir magnet.
got mine here:
Brew Smarter with A Stirstarter Magnetic Stir Plate for Home Brewers | eBay
42$ hard to beat:
My video on my digital scale and stir plate in action !
That's professional mixing, you only need a nitrogen tank and a glass bubble sinker to get all professional!
Well, let's talk seriously.....
Use the final flask, (topaz, blue, whatever darked glass) with air-tight safety cap, and you'll ready to go.....
I know, as you put the ingredients over a scale, you can even weigh all of them! (That's something many people forget, mixtures are in weight!, and glicerine is heavy, about 1,26 g/mL.....but anyone, me included, take a volumetric approach to end sooner.....).
As I was telling you, almost fully professional!
I haven't really been keeping up to date with the DIY scene.. are ultra sonic cleaners not good for steeping now?
As far as I know people are still using ultrasonics, but I believe it's the heat rather than the sonics that are doing the steeping. There was a post by a scientist who had knowledge of ultrasonics a while back that said unless the machine is specifically tuned for working with the viscosities of eliquid the sonics won't do much - so a device designed to clean jewelry won't have much effect at all.
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