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vapdivrr

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While I agree that it's obviously better to vape 5 ml of 12 mg than 20 ml of 3 mg, I'm curious why you think VG is "worse" than PG?
Honestly it's an opinion, but I feel vg is a thicker, stickier chemical that's sugary and leaves a thicker film, so it just seems that it can be something that's not as good as pg which has been used in inhalers already. But it's not only that, but what goes with it, in that most who are using max vg are also vaping sub ohm, dtl , and hi watts, which goes thru a lot more juice, so it's kind of 2 fold. Perhaps the body breaks it all down and there is no ill effects what so ever, which would be awesome, but just from an observation, it seems like a thicker , more syrupy chemical might be something that might make the lungs work harder

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vapdivrr

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Yeah, Diver, I'm with you there. If you need X amount of nic per day, I think there's not much doubt you're better off with lower juice amounts used to get it.

I've been trying my son's Juul, and an HCigar Akso I won (very similar) with 50mg nic. Although they're very tight, and don't deliver a big hit, you can absolutely feel it almost immediately. Chain vape 3-4 hits, and it's a genuine buzz. I guess the kind the teens like. I mean, even without the nic salt speed of absorption, it's using juice with nic that's about 4x as much as mine. And it's hitting the system incredibly fast, like a smoke. I can't help but wonder how this might've helped me that first month when I was chain vaping like a fool to get over the urge. But then, if I'd started with Juul, how much nic would I be using almost 2 years later? Especially since so much of the habit for us long term smokers is related to the act of inhaling, as opposed to just meeting a nic need.

I've actually been thinking about getting some nic salt and using it half/half with my freebase to mix juice in my customary 14-15mg strength, just to see if it would help me vape less juice throughout the day.
Never tried salts because I'm a TH junky and just like the thump 24 mg regular gives me. I do have a couple 18mg juices, but when I vape them, I find myself doing more restrictive lung hits and definitely vape more. If I was younger and was thinking of quitting vaping, I would definitely be trying to lower slightly, but I'm in it forever, so I just stay with the higher nic levels. The funny thing is, is that I dont seem to have a hard time not vaping even at such a high nic level. I have tried stopping a couple times just to see what would happen and it didnt really bother me. Last year I stopped for almost 3 days and I wasn't freaking out and honestly wasn't too bad. I'm pretty sure this is because after 7 years of vaping my body is rid from those other addictive chemicals in cigs and that the nic in vaping isn't as addictive. There was no way I could of just quit smoking, but quitting vaping seems to be a lot easier

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Not all max vg users are high watter subohm folks. A nice thick sauce vapes very well in low watt, high resistance applications too.

To some all that PG makes things seem a lot harsher than need be and turns people away from vaping due to sore throat or just don't like the choke they get.

It's akin to smoking tobacco through a water pipe versus a non filtered tip hit from a cigarette. Most folks I know who try stuff like a Juul can't get a good drag without coughing their brains out so they just assume all vapes are that way and cringe when they see a clouder.

I tried a Bo and hated it. Way too harsh. So I dumped the pre-filled sauce, filled it with some 70 percent VG low dose freebase and absolutely loved it. It leaked out all the juice so I shelved it until...

If Bo or Juul (or insert brand X here) had options of ultra-light, thicker juice or some better flavors I'd be all over them and so would a bunch of other folks I know. Folks who don't dig on being all sky'd from puffing on a vape stick.
 

Rossum

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Honestly it's an opinion, but I feel vg is a thicker, stickier chemical that's sugary and leaves a thicker film, so it just seems that it can be something that's not as good as pg which has been used in inhalers already. But it's not only that, but what goes with it, in that most who are using max vg are also vaping sub ohm, dtl , and hi watts, which goes thru a lot more juice, so it's kind of 2 fold. Perhaps the body breaks it all down and there is no ill effects what so ever, which would be awesome, but just from an observation, it seems like a thicker , more syrupy chemical might be something that might make the lungs work harder
I'm not a "Max VG" guy, but I much prefer 2:1 VG : PG vs. 1:1. Technically, I am vaping sub-ohm, but only mildly (most often ~0.75) and not at all DL.

That's one of the best things about vaping: People are different and can try different things until they find what they like and what works for them. A Juul might be perfect for some folks, but not for others.
 

chellie

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Both provide exactly the same same amount of nicotine (60 mg/day), but with the latter, one is inhaling four times as much PG/VG/Flavorings as with the former.

Juul takes this even further. A bit over 1ml of Juul liquid would provide the same amount of nic.

The question for any particular individual is: How much vapor do you need with your nic to feel satisfied? I understand the answer varies.

Another variable to consider is the hand-to-mouth habit.

I definitely fall more into the 20ml/3mg vs the 5ml at 12 mg because I do vape frequently throughout the day/night. I use mostly VG, 3mg and use coils in the .5 to .8 range at 20 to 25 watts.

When I smoked analogs I smoked full flavor and smoked with extremely high frequency. Was almost always puffing on a cig (ick), Much of it was (I now believe) because of the addiction but a good portion of it was also I was just so used to doing it. I do know that if I was forced to buy a light version because maybe my brand was sold out I would blow through a pack very quickly. I understand that had to do with the nic content but I also believe it had to with the many other ingredients in analogs. I say this because even as someone who vapes a lot I can go for long periods without my vape if I am busy or out to dinner, or involved in a project etc ... but I still overall vape frequently because, in my case, I have a strong hand-to-mouth habit.

Decreasing my nic at this point - going from my current 2 to 3mg to 0 to 1 will absolutely cause some discomfort and will likely cause me to vape a bit more to compensate but it will not be crazy and will be overall minor.

Now if I were to increase my nic - I firmly believe I'd get sick before I stopped because I have a very strong hand to mouth habit that has developed for so many MANY years. So it is as much about that hand-to-mouth as the nic satisfaction.

I started at 50 nic 6 and 1/2 years ago and am now down to between 2 and 3. There was no way that a small amount of ejuice even at high crazy nic levels would satisfy me totally because I was used to smoking frequently. Yes, I now use different equipment BUT I still vape with approximately the same amount of frequency as I did all those years ago. A big difference for me -- a huge difference - is I can go without for hours, even a full day without wanting to rip someones head off. Someone I know was in the hospital and I stayed overnight a few times. Most nights I did not even go out to vape until the morning and I only thought about it then because I was getting coffee. For me, that would never have happened with analogs.

The Juul creators, somehow with their proprietary formulation of nic salts, ingredients and delivery seem to have emulated what analogs do --create a strong sense of satisfaction coupled with a strong (gotta have more) addiction.

My opinion, of course :)
 
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chellie

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Never tried salts because I'm a TH junky and just like the thump 24 mg regular gives me. I do have a couple 18mg juices, but when I vape them, I find myself doing more restrictive lung hits and definitely vape more. If I was younger and was thinking of quitting vaping, I would definitely be trying to lower slightly, but I'm in it forever, so I just stay with the higher nic levels. The funny thing is, is that I dont seem to have a hard time not vaping even at such a high nic level. I have tried stopping a couple times just to see what would happen and it didnt really bother me. Last year I stopped for almost 3 days and I wasn't freaking out and honestly wasn't too bad. I'm pretty sure this is because after 7 years of vaping my body is rid from those other addictive chemicals in cigs and that the nic in vaping isn't as addictive. There was no way I could of just quit smoking, but quitting vaping seems to be a lot easier

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I had just replied to someone else regarding this thread and I have noticed the same thing as you. I still vape a lot and it is 6.5 years for me since I stopped analogs and started vaping BUT I can go without. I think that is proof positive that analogs have a whole combo of ingredients that really form a strong addiction.
 

vapdivrr

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I had just replied to someone else regarding this thread and I have noticed the same thing as you. I still vape a lot and it is 6.5 years for me since I stopped analogs and started vaping BUT I can go without. I think that is proof positive that analogs have a whole combo of ingredients that really form a strong addiction.
Totally agree . Now in the beginning it wasn't like that, I vaped and couldn't be without, but quite a few years into it, it changed for sure...now I have heard of people also having an addiction to holding something or just a mental addiction and for those, I dont know, but mine is simply or was a chemical addiction pure and simple

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smoked25years

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I am definitely addicted. If I weren't, I wouldn't vape... and I definitely wouldn't go outside to vape regardless of a rainstorm or snowstorm or freezing cold. The urge has become less and less as I've decreased my nicotine intake from 50 mg/ml to 5 mg/ml (keeping the volume at 2ml per day) but the urge still exists for me.
 
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gpjoe

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Both provide exactly the same same amount of nicotine (60 mg/day), but with the latter, one is inhaling four times as much PG/VG/Flavorings as with the former.

Juul takes this even further. A bit over 1ml of Juul liquid would provide the same amount of nic.

The question for any particular individual is: How much vapor do you need with your nic to feel satisfied? I understand the answer varies.

I very much agree.

Logically (no science here on my part) I would think that the less stuff you inhale and a lower frequency would be better. In my perfect world, I would rather take a few hits from a high-nic device than chain-vape like a mad man to try and get my fix. Fewer hits means less inhaling anything other than air into my lungs.
 

Rossum

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I very much agree.

Logically (no science here on my part) I would think that the less stuff you inhale and a lower frequency would be better. In my perfect world, I would rather take a few hits from a high-nic device than chain-vape like a mad man to try and get my fix. Fewer hits means less inhaling anything other than air into my lungs.
There's certainly the question of frequency, i.e. number of hits, but there's also the question of how deeply one inhales the stuff.

My gut (no science) tells me it's better to to chain-puff lots of hits that it is to take fewer, deeper, "lung busting" DL hits. From back when I was in college ~40 years ago, I remember what just a few of the latter would do to my lungs. Yes, that was smoke, not vapor, but still.
 

vapdivrr

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I am definitely addicted. If I weren't, I wouldn't vape... and I definitely wouldn't go outside to vape regardless of a rainstorm or snowstorm or freezing cold. The urge has become less and less as I've decreased my nicotine intake from 50 mg/ml to 5 mg/ml (keeping the volume at 2ml per day) but the urge still exists for me.
Dont get me wrong, I'm still addicted, but at a much much lower intensity

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