Just got hooked on the modding bug...some questions

[boondongle]

This is going to be a bit of a brain dump, based on my first few days of modding, so please bear with me.

My Story

After a few tentative attempts at using a Joye 510 and DSE084, I decided to make my own box mod using the nicostick tutorial. I ended up with this ugly piece of machinery:

It had several flaws, but it worked nicely...for about five puffs. Then it just stopped working, and I figured the atomizer had died. Since I had cannibalized an old pen-style e-cig I bought at a mall kiosk about a year ago for the parts, I didn't have a replacement atty, and I started working on a box mod for my 510:

This one worked out much better, and I basically gave up smoking cigarettes overnight. But I only had one atomizer for this device (my other atty went up in smoke the day I received it -- my fault entirely), so I was concerned about what I would do if it died as well, as all atomizers seem destined to do. So I went back to my first mod and tested the atty. According to my voltmeter, it seemed to have a connection, so I popped it back on the box and gave it a whirl. Surprisingly, it came right back to life. After having a bit of experience with the 510 box, I realized that the airflow on the 801 box was restricted, making for a very hard draw. Since I didn't like where I'd put the button anyway, I decided to make my third box mod:

For my fourth box mod, I decided to try something a bit more ambitious. Since I saw there was a bit of unused space in the battery boxes I was buying at Radio Shack, I tried to figure out if I could manage to fit a switch, voltage regulator, and atomizer in there, giving me a 5v nicostick using 14500s. I did:

Excited to try it out, I fired it up, and was pretty disappointed at the result. There didn't seem to be much difference from the 3.7v boxes. I took my 510 atty off and went back to my standard box mod, because I was worried I'd wired it up incorrectly, and I was afraid of blowing my last 510 atomizer.

Oh, and along the way, I also made a magnum designed to use regular (1.2v) rechargeable batteries:

That didn't go so well, and I got barely a trickle of vapor, even with fully charged batteries.

Summary

I'm very happy with my 3.7v box mods, and haven't touched a cigarette in a week now, thanks to them. I'd really like to get the 5v one working, but I'm afraid of killing my atomizer. My lack of electronics knowledge is really hurting me with my current projects and planned future ones, so I'm hoping the modders here can help me out with my questions.

Questions

1. Is there a significant difference between the 3.7v and 5v experience? The only difference I noticed in the short time I used my 5v was a slight burning taste.

2. Did I wire up my 5v correctly? I have:

(positive battery)->(switch)->(Vin)
(Vout)->(atty center pin)
(negative battery)->(regulator ground)
(negative battery)->(atty outer ring)

I did it that way based on what I read here, but connecting the regulator ground to the negative battery terminal gives me a connection between the center pin and outer ring of my atomizer.

3. Why does my magnum seem so underpowered? I'm using three AA batteries in series, which theoretically should give me around 3.6v at the atomizer, right? Is there just a critical difference between 3.6v and 3.7v?

4. I'm filling up my box mods with hot glue, to keep the wires from shifting around and give the whole thing a nicer weight in my hand. Is there any problem with doing so? I already found out one -- if you have to go back in and mess around with the wiring, the glue makes it a serious PITA.

5. I'm already looking at turning anything and everything into a battery mod. Is there some sort of guide available online that lists the available battery sizes? I've seen: 18650, 18500, 14650, 14500, and 10440, and understand that these numbers indicate the size of the battery. What does that numbering scheme come from? Does it have a name? I'm also aware of other batteries, like cr123, cr2, etc. Having a master list would be really helpful, so when I'm planning a mod, I can figure out the biggest batteries I can fit inside it.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

[cybervex]

Your 5v mod is very clean I like it!!

1 - There should be a significant increase in vapor with the 5v.

2 - You did wire the 5v correctly.

3 - Normal AA batteries cannot handle the current draw that the atty requires. They are fine to test if you wired correctly but not for long term use.

4 - I would skip the hot glue and use epoxy. Once your confident your doing everything right.

5 - Google "battery sizes" there is a wiki that will have it all.

Keep up the modding

Cheers

 

[SmokinScott]

If I'm reading this correctly (which I may not be) it doesn't look to me like the Voltage Regulator (VR) is wired correctly. It should be

Battery POS to switch in
switch out to VR in
VR center pin to ground
VR out to atty center
atty outer to ground

You may be doing this already, I just can't tell by the picture.

My response to your other questions is... what Cybervex said

 

[boondongle]

Your 5v mod is very clean I like it!!

Thanks! It was tough working in such a small area.

1 - There should be a significant increase in vapor with the 5v.

By that, do you mean that I have to hold the switch for a shorter period of time? On my 3.7v, I hold the switch for about 6-7 seconds. With the 5v, holding it longer than 3 seconds makes the burning taste come out very strongly, and a 3-second hit gives about the same vapor as 6-7 seconds with the 3.7v.

3 - Normal AA batteries cannot handle the current draw that the atty requires. They are fine to test if you wired correctly but not for long term use.

That mag has 3xAA in series, for a total of 3.6v. It's not just one battery, if that's what I seemed to be saying. Or is 3.6v not enough to drive the atomizer fully?

4 - I would skip the hot glue and use epoxy. Once your confident your doing everything right.

Not that I know anything about them, but the hot glue seemed pretty safe and easy...what's the advantage of epoxy as a space filler?

5 - Google "battery sizes" there is a wiki that will have it all.

I tried that, but I didn't get anything that showed the 18650, 18500, 14650, 14500, 10440, etc.

Keep up the modding

I plan to!

If I'm reading this correctly (which I may not be) it doesn't look to me like the Voltage Regulator (VR) is wired correctly. It should be

Battery POS to switch in
switch out to VR in
VR center pin to ground
VR out to atty center
atty outer to ground

You may be doing this already, I just can't tell by the picture.

My response to your other questions is... what Cybervex said

Assuming "ground" is the same as the negative side of the battery, then yes, that's how I have it connected.

 

[Kewtsquirrel]

Alkaline/NiMH/NiCad batteries really just can't handle the current that ecigs draw, especially the smaller ones. Magnums don't use 3x AAs, they use 3x AAAs. You might get a little bit out of 3 brand new 1.5v alkalines, but it'll be short lived and you'll be buying more. Just throw an 18500 in there and you'll be sitting pretty.

Battery sizes for li-ions are metric and in the name. An 18500 is 18mm by 50.0mm. A 14500 is 14mm by 50.0 mm, a 10440 is 10mm x 44.0mm, etc. First 2 are diameter in mm, second 3 are length in mm with a decimal point before the last one.
Battery sizes are generally off by up to 1mm, so give yourself 15mm for a 14500, 19mm for an 18xxx, etc.

Do you own a voltmeter? Are you getting 5v at the connector? What amperage is your vreg rated for?

 

[surbitonPete]

I have found my absolute favourite battery setup now is Four standard AA 1.2 volt Nimah rechargeable's in series. (gives 5.68volts fully charged) They seem to be holding up very well to all the charging and discharging. They give me a guaranteed full day of heavy vaping, (usually two) and are cheap and easy to buy anywhere when I do finally need some replacements and I am not finding that they have any problem at all in holding up to supplying the current to drive my atties.
It certainly seems to me to be the perfect power supply for 801 atties, I don't know about for any other atties.

 

[Robert]

you can probly get som schedual 40 PVC and some- CR2's and ramp that magnum up to 6+volt

 

[boondongle]

Alkaline/NiMH/NiCad batteries really just can't handle the current that ecigs draw, especially the smaller ones. Magnums don't use 3x AAs, they use 3x AAAs.

Oops...mis-typed...it is 3xAAA, not 3xAA.

Battery sizes for li-ions are metric and in the name. An 18500 is 18mm by 50.0mm. A 14500 is 14mm by 50.0 mm, a 10440 is 10mm x 44.0mm, etc. First 2 are diameter in mm, second 3 are length in mm with a decimal point before the last one.
Battery sizes are generally off by up to 1mm, so give yourself 15mm for a 14500, 19mm for an 18xxx, etc.

Right, that part I get. What I don't know is which sizes exist out there. I didn't know there was a 14650 until someone on this board pointed it out to me. I'm looking for a list of the standard sizes, so when I'm looking at a mod and seeing that I have 14mm x 90mm for the battery, I'll know if there are 14900s on the market, or if, say, 14650 is the closest size. So basically, I'm not trying to figure out the size from the name, but what sizes are out there in the market, without googling every number between 10440 and 18650.

Do you own a voltmeter? Are you getting 5v at the connector? What amperage is your vreg rated for?

I do have an old voltmeter, but it's an analog one meant for much higher voltages, so I've basically just been using it to check for continuity. At its lowest setting, 5v would be the very first line on the meter, so any kind of accuracy is right out the window at the voltages we're dealing with. Got any suggestions on a reasonably priced meter that's good for this kind of low-voltage work?

I have found my absolute favourite battery setup now is Four standard AA 1.2 volt Nimah rechargeable's in series.[...]
It certainly seems to me to be the perfect power supply for 801 atties, I don't know about for any other atties.

Well, that's good to know. I have tons of standard rechargeables lying around, and can get them super-cheap at a local source. I'm also looking at using 801 and 510 atomizers in my future mods.

you can probly get som schedual 40 PVC and some- CR2's and ramp that magnum up to 6+volt

I like where your head is at! That's pretty much what I'd been considering, though I was thinking of using an 18500 for 3.7v, since I'm not sold on high voltage yet. I haven't done enough playing around with it, since I don't have any spare atomizers to risk. Once my order of new attys comes in, I'll give the 5+ volts a more thorough look.

 

[Dave Rickey]

The faster you discharge a battery, the more the effective voltage output drops if it can't provide the current. If you're using the cheap zinc-chloride batteries that come with the flashlights (which can handle the trickle of current needed by the LED's), your actual output voltage under load could be 3V or less. NiMH's or Alkalines will do a bit better, NiCad's will actually do best (NiCad's are still used heavily in cordless tools because they handle high discharge so well).

So your Magnum's problem is that the AAA is a small battery and the chemistry you're using can't handle that much current from such a small cell. 1.2V tells me you were using NiMH's, which can barely hit the needed voltage under ideal conditions, if you've been using them for other things for a while (or your charger is running a bit low) they simply may not have the oomph anymore.

Try some off-the-shelf alkalines, if they work for a fair period to start with then your magnum is fine and it's your batteries that are the problem.

--Dave

 

[boondongle]

Dave, I was using 1.2v NiMH AA batteries. However, I also used a set of brand-new alkaline 1.5v batteries, and the results were identical. I think I get what you are saying about discharge rate, though.

 

[jericoriver]

Quote "I do have an old voltmeter, but it's an analog one meant for much higher voltages, so I've basically just been using it to check for continuity. At its lowest setting, 5v would be the very first line on the meter, so any kind of accuracy is right out the window at the voltages we're dealing with. Got any suggestions on a reasonably priced meter that's good for this kind of low-voltage work?"
Harbor freight usually has a small cheap digital meter for about $5.00 that is fine for D C voltage in the lower ranges.

 

[Dave Rickey]

Get a cheap multimeter (Harbor Freight usually has them for under $10, Walmart for <$15), it's hard to diagnose a circuit if you can't really tell what's happening in it. If you have the same problem with fresh alkalines, I'd start looking at resistance readings, maybe in-operation voltage drops, see if a cold joint or something is introducing additional resistance somewhere. How new is the atomizer?

--Dave

 

[boondongle]

Just a bit of an update. Like I said earlier, I only had two atomizers -- an 801 and a 510 -- so I didn't want to mess around too much with the high voltage before I had some backups. Turns out I was just being a big chicken. When a new 801 atomizer came in, I tore apart my first box mod and retrofitted it to be a 5v 801 nicostick. It has holes where there shouldn't be any and it's patched up and ugly, but it works. There definitely was more vapor, but not much change in the throat hit.

Today, however, my order of high voltage juices and 510 atomizers came in from Nhaler, and....wow. I tried the HV juices in my 3.7v box mod, and they were pretty good. I liked them and thought I might reorder a couple of the flavors. Then I put them in the 5v 510 and I was blown away. The flavor came out much clearer, making some of the flavors I thought were bland seem much nicer. And the vapor...crazy. When I exhale, I can't even see what's on the monitor or television.

So, yeah, it appears that the HV juices along with the 5v box mod are a perfect match.

I'll look into getting a better multimeter for future projects, but my questions about the 5v mods are pretty much moot now. I still need to find a list of available batteries. Thanks for the help, everyone.

 

[Overlord]

Reading this post gives me some hope that using Nimah batteries for mods will work.

GO LOCAL BOUGHT lol