Juice at High Wattage?

[Garnoch]

I've been vaping for over five years, and usually try just about all hardware on the market, but I've avoided sub ohm and high wattage. I'm thinking of changing that, and have read A LOT of articles and threads on the matter, but I'm still not getting all the answers I want.

Regardless of the type of coil I use and its resistance, I seem usually prefer 8w give or take. If I go much higher, I lose all flavor and it just tastes burnt. So Why would I enjoy sub ohm at 20, 30, 50 or 100w?

People seem to say high wattage brings out the flavors or changes them, but I see it taking away all flavor and replacing it with burnt wicking. Then I read something about juice, where many(?) prefer a low nic content when vaping like this. Is this the key?

This is why I'm posting this in the juice section here. If I give sub ohm, high wattage a try, may I need to change the liquid I prefer using? For what it's worth, I mostly vape 18mg Halo Tribeca.

Thanks, all.

 

[LiquidElectron]

I discovered a whole new blast of flavor just using a Subtank Nano (or Mini...or the big one) with their 0.5 coils and 22-ish watts. It's like a whole new world. And yeah you definitely would not want to sub-ohm 18mg. I could only do 6mg for a while, then 3, then 0. It's also a good way to step down nic if you're so inclined, imo.

 

[stevegmu]

I thought it was mostly for clouds. For flavor, I haven't tried anything better than a 2.0 ohm HH.357 atty at around 3.7-4 volts...

 

[State O' Flux]

I've avoided sub ohm and high wattage.

Regardless of the type of coil I use and its resistance, I seem usually prefer 8w give or take. If I go much higher, I lose all flavor and it just tastes burnt. So Why would I enjoy sub ohm at 20, 30, 50 or 100w?

If I give sub ohm, high wattage a try, may I need to change the liquid I prefer using?

Although you provide no detail regarding your net resistance and wire gauge used... everything you need to be successful at higher wattages can be found in Ohm's law formulas, the Steam Engine coil modeling program... and an understanding of "heat flux". Heat flux is the coil radiant heat expressed in milliwatts per millimeter squared.

For example, if you have a 32 gauge single coil at 1.8Ω, 8 watts is plenty for producing a "nicely warm" heat flux of 317 mW/mm².
To reduce that temperature, all one needs to do is lower the wattage, and/or increase the resistance value.

Now... this is why people go sub-ohm. The net coil surface area of the above is 23.95 mm², so there's only so much wick-in-coil exposure, with a flavor and vapor concentration commensurate with that surface area.

With sub-ohm, it's not so much the amount of heat you can produce (although in some instances, its' advantageous), but rather the increase in net coil surface area and the amount of wick exposed to that surface area.
If the surface area is twice that (or more) of the previous 32 gauge build... it stands to reason that for the same heat flux, you'll produce twice the flavor concentration and vapor. Is it a true 1:1 ratio? No... there are assorted losses, but depending on the juice PG/VG ratios used, along with other variables, it's not far off.

To obtain an 317 mW/mm²+/- heat flux from say, 40 watts... one of many optional possibilities would be a 27 gauge, dual parallel coil build of 0.4Ω net resistance - producing a 316 mW/mm² heat flux.
The juice vaporization potential more than doubling from our previous 1.8Ω build... with a net surface area of 61.55 mm².

 

[Garnoch]

I thought it was mostly for clouds too until recently - and I get as much as I need of that with an aerotank and 1.5ohm dual coils, but I'm starting to think there is more to this and figured I've tried everything else out there so now it's time to try this.

Good to hear confirmation about nic levels. I'm just not sure how you get MORE flavor from insane power. But I got thinking this afternoon - not all coils and filler is made the same. If you're building your own or even using something like the Atlantis, it may require or at least be able to handle more power in order to not only give you more clouds but deliver more flavor.

So in that case, could this be true.....

I may fine a 1.5 ohm Kanger V3 dual bottom coil to taste like crap at 10w (3.9v), but find an Atlantis .5 ohm coil tastes amazing at 30w (3.9v)? (math is close but rounded)

 

[Garnoch]

Although you provide no detail regarding your net resistance and wire gauge used... everything you need to be successful at higher wattages can be found in Ohm's law formulas, the Steam Engine coil modeling program... and an understanding of "heat flux". Heat flux is the coil radiant heat expressed in milliwatts per millimeter squared.

For example, if you have a 32 gauge single coil at 1.8Ω, 8 watts is plenty for producing a "nicely warm" heat flux of 317 mW/mm².
To reduce that temperature, all one needs to do is lower the wattage, and/or increase the resistance value.

Now... this is why people go sub-ohm. The net coil surface area of the above is 23.95 mm², so there's only so much wick-in-coil exposure, with a flavor and vapor concentration commensurate with that surface area.

With sub-ohm, it's not so much the amount of heat you can produce (although in some instances, its' advantageous), but rather the increase in net coil surface area and the amount of wick exposed to that surface area.
If the surface area is twice that (or more) of the previous 32 gauge build... it stands to reason that for the same heat flux, you'll produce twice the flavor concentration and vapor. Is it a true 1:1 ratio? No... there are assorted losses, but depending on the juice PG/VG ratios used, along with other variables, it's not far off.

To obtain an 317 mW/mm²+/- heat flux from say, 40 watts... one of many optional possibilities would be a 27 gauge, dual parallel coil build of 0.4Ω net resistance - producing a 316 mW/mm² heat flux.
The juice vaporization potential more than doubling from our previous 1.8Ω build... with a net surface area of 61.55 mm².

Ha, while I was typing, you wrote kind of where I was going with my thoughts in that different hardware can handle or require more or less. Thanks for that. It really was exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Oberon75]

I thought it was mostly for clouds. For flavor, I haven't tried anything better than a 2.0 ohm HH.357 atty at around 3.7-4 volts...

That's a huge misconception and the most flavorful vapes I've ever experienced come from Sub Ohm RDA builds. I'm currently considering paying forward my MVP 2.0 and two Nautilus tanks because of this.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[Garnoch]

Definitely a misconception. I decided to jump in. I usually order online, but went down to my local shop today. I wanted something as pocketable as possible so planned on getting the Eleaf iStick 30 and a Kanger Subtank Mini. Though they were more expensive than my online go to places, they had the Eleaf in stock. Unfortunately they were out of the Kanger, so I grabbed an Atlantis. The guys there confirmed I should lower my nic so I needed new juice too. He let me try some 6mg first on Protank mini. I said the throat hit wasn't there. He then let me try it in an Atlantis running at 30w. Holy crap. Great taste, huge vapor, amazing throat hit and, maybe most surprising to me, not a hint of any burnt taste.

 

[Bikenstein]

The coils you are usin can't wick fast enough to handle more power. You are burning them dry. What you get with a device that can is a bigger more flavorful less muted hit. You also go through more juice and have to lower your nic more than likely. But why do that if you are satisfied where you are? If a nice strip steak makes you happy why eat a whole prime rib roast every day, you'll just get fat.

 

[Garnoch]

Ha, true, but like a lot of people here, I'm never happy with this stuff. I've spent the past 5+ years buying enough hardware and juice to stock a store, most of it never being used more than once, always looking for something better. Which is why even though I bought the Atlantis, I'll still be buying the Kanger. Will I like it more? No idea, but I have to try it. I guess I'm never happy because, even though things have progressed A LOT in five years, there's always something I don't like about the last thing I settled on, even though it was better than the previous thing. I never really wanted a box mod, nor something as large as the Atlantis, but with the way these things keep evolving, I now have a device with a larger reservoir, a larger battery, better flavor and hit (and clouds), in a smaller package.

 

[Bikenstein]

Same way but I've just recently quit sub ohmin and now am totally happy (for the moment) with GS Air tanks on my isticks. Not huge clouds but decent enough and more like what I want. And I'm losin weight

 

[Garnoch]

Good for you! And really, I won't know how much I really like this until I've spent some time with it. Am I having leaking issue, how long with the coils last for the taste I want, how long will the battery really last me, is it worth how much juice I'm burning through. I'll tell you this, I' won't be getting rid of my other hardware any time soon.