Is it bad to charge a battery before it is completely dead?

[InTheShade]

It answers my question except that my battery sometimes when fully charged reads 3.7 volts and that's when it is using its auto detect settings mode. So I don't know how to properly use this battery... the manual explains the buttons but not what I need to know

Are you sure you are not confusing the auto-detect mode as to what it's outputting rather than what the battery charge level is?

They are two completely separate things. When you charge your battery it will be 'full' at a specific level (4.2v in your case) you can output more or less than this 4.2 volts to the atomizer. The battery will do this for you using a voltage regulator to output between 3 - 6v. This means the circuitry in the body of your battery is either increasing the voltage or decreasing the voltage - and this takes power from the battery.

This output voltage has nothing to do with the charge of your battery (well it does, but for this example it doesn't). So if it reads 3.7v, it's telling you it's outputting 3.7v to the atomizer and not that your battery is at 3.7v charge.

Make sense?

 

[The Torch]

40% of 4 volts is 1.6 volts.
I'm pretty sure that's not what you intended to convey.

Doesn't quite work that way. Here's the table:

4.2V – 100%
4.1V – 87%
4.0V – 75%
3.9V – 55%
3.8V – 30%
3.5V – 0%

3.85 to 3.95 volts is best for storage, but I wouldn't go as far as doing that when not using the battery for a couple of days or even for a month. It will make a difference if you store the battery for monthS at a time and then some. I have unused batteries that I charge every now and then and they're more than 3 years old and still good as new.

in that link the battery university said Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better. so does that mean I should only charge my batteries a little bit at a time?

I believe they mean it's better to top-off your battery regularly rather than discharging it and then giving it a full charge.

To answer your question about the 3.7V display on your battery:

Most Li-Ion batteries (when fully charged) will read 4.2V when read with a multimeter (when not connected to a circuit), but will actually put out 3.7V when connected to a circuit (i.e, when you press the button and vape.)

There also are some Li-Ion batteries that will read 3.7V when not connected to a circuit and I believe those have a working voltage of 3.2V, but those are not really appropriate for vaping as far as I can tell.

I just suspect your auto-detect is reading the voltage while also powering the coil.

 

[edwinoey]

how about IMR battery guys? lke MNKE or Efest? is it bad to go to completely dead?

 

[The Torch]

how about IMR battery guys? lke MNKE or Efest? is it bad to go to completely dead?

Yes, it is bad; they are Lithium-Ion batteries too.

Most regulated mods have protection to keep you from going under 3.8V, however. Doesn't mean it's the best practice, but at least it prevents you from killing your battery or starting a fire. Mechs, OTOH, do not have voltage protection and it is very easy to go below the point where the battery will become unusable or not keep a charge anymore.

 

[InTheShade]

Yes, it is bad; they are Lithium-Ion batteries too.

Most regulated mods have protection to keep you from going under 3.8V, however. Doesn't mean it's the best practice, but at least it prevents you from killing your battery or starting a fire. Mechs, OTOH, do not have voltage protection and it is very easy to go below the point where the battery will become unusable or not keep a charge anymore.

I'd agree with this.

Basically, don't overcharge them, don't over-discharge them and don't push them harder than they were designed.

So check your charger isn't charging them higher than 4.18-4.2v (buy a good quality charger and check your batteries with a DMM), make sure you take them out of your mech or APV at around 3.7v (check with a DMM) and make sure you use a high-drain battery for high drain applications (check specs and know your build)

I'd also add in that you should charge them in one hit from 3.7 to 4.2 and if you are not going to use them for a while, take them down to around 3.8v and store them in a dry place where they are not going to be exposed to extremes of temperature.

 

[WattWick]

40% of 4 volts is 1.6 volts.
I'm pretty sure that's not what you intended to convey.

Good point. I see how that is not enough info. The Torch covered it, tho. Will keep in mind for next time.

 

[invisiblehand13]

I'd agree with this.

Basically, don't overcharge them, don't over-discharge them and don't push them harder than they were designed.

So check your charger isn't charging them higher than 4.18-4.2v (buy a good quality charger and check your batteries with a DMM), make sure you take them out of your mech or APV at around 3.7v (check with a DMM) and make sure you use a high-drain battery for high drain applications (check specs and know your build)

I'd also add in that you should charge them in one hit from 3.7 to 4.2 and if you are not going to use them for a while, take them down to around 3.8v and store them in a dry place where they are not going to be exposed to extremes of temperature.

Totally agreed but I have this horrible habit of taking my discharged batteries straight to the charger and fully charging them for next use, which may be a while in my stockpile rotation lol, but I do not believe they ever sit there fully charged for over a month and I notice no bad issues from this, I just do not have the time or patience to put them away "discharged" then grab them the day I want to use them, charge them for a few hours and then use them that same day...I would have to wake up at like 4 am just to accomplish this...not practical for me...just saying IMO

 

[derMeister]

I never let my batteries run all the way out. I'm too OCD about it.

 

[invisiblehand13]

I never let my batteries run all the way out. I'm too OCD about it.

Ugh I know, I have people who tell me they hit their mech mods until barely anything comes out...I'm like "WHAT ARE YOU DOING????" lol, I do not see the point of investing in a battery just to intentionally OD it to the point you do not understand why a week later it does not work anymore and you need another...just saying

 

[memehuffer]

I never run my flat (well, occasionally by accident) and they seem sweet as!

 

[InTheShade]

Totally agreed but I have this horrible habit of taking my discharged batteries straight to the charger and fully charging them for next use, which may be a while in my stockpile rotation lol, but I do not believe they ever sit there fully charged for over a month and I notice no bad issues from this, I just do not have the time or patience to put them away "discharged" then grab them the day I want to use them, charge them for a few hours and then use them that same day...I would have to wake up at like 4 am just to accomplish this...not practical for me...just saying IMO

To be honest, I do that too - I charge them after about a 30 min rest from vaping, then when fully charged, put on my vape shelf. I try to keep that shelf in order to show me the next battery in the rotation.

I am sure that a couple of weeks at full charge doesn't hurt, I particularly meant for longer term storage like a battery for your vapocolypse drawer or something.

 

[invisiblehand13]

To be honest, I do that too - I charge them after about a 30 min rest from vaping, then when fully charged, put on my vape shelf. I try to keep that shelf in order to show me the next battery in the rotation.

I am sure that a couple of weeks at full charge doesn't hurt, I particularly meant for longer term storage like a battery for your vapocolypse drawer or something.

Oh you mean when the feds come to take me away...I mean my equipment...yes, my equipment lol

 

[irdanyoo]

its bad to charge the battery when its fully dead. charge it when you notice a voltage drop. itll keep the batteries fresh and alive for a long time

 

[WattWick]

To be honest, I do that too - I charge them after about a 30 min rest from vaping, then when fully charged, put on my vape shelf. I try to keep that shelf in order to show me the next battery in the rotation.

I am sure that a couple of weeks at full charge doesn't hurt, I particularly meant for longer term storage like a battery for your vapocolypse drawer or something.

Not sure if the following is the whole truth and nothing but... but in the RC world I've been taught that the effect of storing fully charged batteries is cumulative. As in all time spent at full charge adds up over time. If I charge my lipos to go flying and something stops me from doing so, I discharge them.

Then again those are lipos. I have yet to see any real specifics on how to properly treat IMR batteries. For all I know, they may be the li-ion equivalent of Eneloops.

 

[edwinoey]

Alright so its bad to let IMR or li ion battery drop to dead. I mean im interested in dual 26650 box mod and as far as i know, its should be above 3 volt or something. Here is the question. Ive seen peoples running using their mechmod until really dead! I mean the mod cant fire anymore! Is that what u guys mean to avoid something like that? And how we could know about the volt in the battery? Using volt meter? Still wondering since im the chips PV guy. Prefer to use electrical PV rather than PV. Anyone can explain futher more?

 

[InTheShade]

Alright so its bad to let IMR or li ion battery drop to dead. I mean im interested in dual 26650 box mod and as far as i know, its should be above 3 volt or something. Here is the question. Ive seen peoples running using their mechmod until really dead! I mean the mod cant fire anymore! Is that what u guys mean to avoid something like that? And how we could know about the volt in the battery? Using volt meter? Still wondering since im the chips PV guy. Prefer to use electrical PV rather than PV. Anyone can explain futher more?

Yes, draining a battery until it can't fire any more is not a good thing at all.

When I started using mechs I was constantly checking my battery - it was almost to the point of every 15 mins I would take the battery out and check it with a DMM. But I did learn quickly what 3.6v felt like when I was vaping and now I can almost get it spot on every time. An inexpensive DMM can be bought for less than $10 from Harbor Freight, although you might want to spend a bit more - its up to you.

So I recommend you remove your battery (ies in your case) and check them with a DMM until you get to know what your desired charging voltage 'feels' like in a vape.

For me, I didn't particular enjoy the weak vapes I was getting below 3.6v anyway, so I didn't see the point of pushing them beyond that voltage. Plus batteries are expensive, why wouldn't you do everything you can to make them last longer and perform better?

 

[invisiblehand13]

Alright so its bad to let IMR or li ion battery drop to dead. I mean im interested in dual 26650 box mod and as far as i know, its should be above 3 volt or something. Here is the question. Ive seen peoples running using their mechmod until really dead! I mean the mod cant fire anymore! Is that what u guys mean to avoid something like that? And how we could know about the volt in the battery? Using volt meter? Still wondering since im the chips PV guy. Prefer to use electrical PV rather than PV. Anyone can explain futher more?

Yeah, that scenario is like making you run until you simply collapse, why would you do that to an expensive battery??? Not only is it horrible but I have seen someone do that to a battery everyday until it was literally useless two weeks later, would not charge and I have an OD charger in my shop that could not do anything for it anyways...what was really sad is it was a VTC5, I wanted to hit him...just saying lol

 

[invisiblehand13]

Yes, draining a battery until it can't fire any more is not a good thing at all.

When I started using mechs I was constantly checking my battery - it was almost to the point of every 15 mins I would take the battery out and check it with a DMM. But I did learn quickly what 3.6v felt like when I was vaping and now I can almost get it spot on every time. An inexpensive DMM can be bought for less than $10 from Harbor Freight, although you might want to spend a bit more - its up to you.

So I recommend you remove your battery (ies in your case) and check them with a DMM until you get to know what your desired charging voltage 'feels' like in a vape.

For me, I didn't particular enjoy the weak vapes I was getting below 3.6v anyway, so I didn't see the point of pushing them beyond that voltage. Plus batteries are expensive, why wouldn't you do everything you can to make them last longer and perform better?

One further note, technically you can run a battery down to 2.5v before damage occurs (not sure if I agree with that but it is a general consensus) but I never run mine below 3.6 as intheshade stated, and on my regulated mods I run at 91 watts they will not operated under 3.6 volts anyways. If you are using a mech mod you can definitely notice the vapor production degradation... why would you want crappy vapor production anyways????