Im looking for a good site to DIY my liquids, and also need advice with mixing

[k3vin]

Fwiw when I use a syringe and am measuring, I draw air up into the syringe after drawing in liquid the gap between the plunger and liquid make it easier for me to see, as opposed to having a few small bubbles clinging to the plunger right at the line with the liquid.

 

[wizard10000]

Fwiw when I use a syringe and am measuring, I draw air up into the syringe after drawing in liquid the gap between the plunger and liquid make it easier for me to see, as opposed to having a few small bubbles clinging to the plunger right at the line with the liquid.

If you draw air into the syringe the amount that's in the needle gets added to the mix - if you don't, it stays in the needle kinda like when you hold your finger over the end of a drinking straw and pull it out of your favorite beverage and dump it on your kid sister

Short version - if there's an air pocket above the fluid the fluid in the needle gets expelled with the air pocket and if there's not an air pocket above the fluid it stays in the needle.

But - as Spazmelda said, the amount of fluid left in the needle isn't significant since you can't measure that accurately with a syringe anyway. A 1.5" 18 gauge needle holds about 0.01ml of liquid.

 

[k3vin]

Your right wiz. I was just bringing it up so others might be able to measure better. Thanks for the clarification

 

[wizard10000]

Your right wiz. I was just bringing it up so others might be able to measure better. Thanks for the clarification

Yeah, I was kinda trying to answer OP's question. I draw a little air into the syringe as well - helps me measure good, especially if I'm measuring dark flavorings

I think the difference is academic anyway.

 

[k3vin]

I started getting my stuff from kim over at one stop diy..here is a link to special deal.

Special Deals! - One Stop DIY Shop Store

I usually get 2-3 of the "deal"packs..great for testing

 

[Mikenet]

About having air above the liquid in the syringe, what I've noticed is with the syringe I tested using water, is that their is always some air above the liquid whether I want it their or not. I guess what is happening is that the air in the needle gets extracted into the syringe before the liquid.

I'm not too concerned about this though because my plan is to overfill the syringe anyway and use the graduations as a guide.

So If I want to dispense exactly 1ML, I was thinking of extracting liquid to the 2ML mark, then pushing on the plunger until the liquid reaches the 1ML mark. Later Id dispense the extra 1ML of liquid back into the original bottle so their is no waste.

Murphy's Machines - How To Use A Syringe

The link above explains this with some photo illustrations. It seems like a solid method for dispensing accurate amounts because your relying entirely on the markings on the syringe to make measurements and it cuts out the concern of how much liquid is in the needle, at least I think.

Thanks for the tips everyone, if anyone thinks the method in the link is good too let me know. I'll be doing some mixing probably tomorrow because I got most my supplies now.

 

[Mikenet]

I pm'd ya, but forgot to include this. Great site someone just turned me onto, and their bulk buys look pretty good.
48nic liquid - 1 liter = 33 ounces = $100
Gallon of PG - $45
Gallon of VG - $40

http://www.ecigexpress.com/diy-supp...ne-1-liter-select-vg-or-pg-or-50-50-mix-p-968

Wow that's a whole lot of PG and VG. I just wonder what the shelf life on PG and VG would be, because im thinking that amount would last me a couple years easily, probably more.

Good deal considering the amount.

 

[Prettycat191]

I don't know about the rest of you, but the needle stays full when I dispense it, even when I pull air in first. I usually pull back up on the plunger and shake it into the needle to push it out afterwards. I'm not worried about it throwing off my mix, because it's not enough to make a big difference.

 

[Mikenet]

I don't know about the rest of you, but the needle stays full when I dispense it, even when I pull air in first. I usually pull back up on the plunger and shake it into the needle to push it out afterwards. I'm not worried about it throwing off my mix, because it's not enough to make a big difference.

I'm finding that it may not matter as much as I thought because the liquid does stay in the needle as your saying. I think if I was to use that extra liquid in the needle it would count as extra and throw of my measurements though.

I used a graduated cylinder to measure the amount of liquid in a 14 gauge, 3 inch needle (the largest needle I have) and found that their is about .3 ML of liquid retained in the needle and hub alone.

The graduated cylinder I have does not have markings below the 1ML mark so I had to guess as to how much water was in their. It wasn't hard to eyeball though. All the water in the needle and hub looked to make it about 30 percent to the 1ML mark once inside the graduated cylinder.

According to this if I'm mixing small batches with this particular needle it could actually effect my results a great deal, if I were to force the extra liquid out the needle, which isn't hard to do. Either remove the plunger or keep pumping it and the extra liquid comes out.

If I were mixing with a very strong nicotine, 100mg per ML and I needed only 1ML. Pumping the extra liquid out the needle would give me 30% more than what I needed.

If my target nic level was 24mg in a 10ML bottle, I'm thinking this error would bring the nic content between 30mg and 40mg. Im not great with percents so that last part is a guesstimate.

Of course mixing larger batches or using smaller needles would make this matter less, but I think information like syringe techniques is useful for those new to DIY like I am. What I'm talking about seems like a minor detail until someone grabs a 14 guage 3in needle and mixes a 10ml batch using strong nicotine. That's what I'm about to do, I'm just glad I confirmed what I needed to know.

 

[Prettycat191]

I mix with 48mg down to 10 mg, so it wouldn't make a big difference in mine with the nic.

I think my needle only retains about .1 ml anyway, so it's not as large of a difference either.

 

[murphydoodle]

If my target nic level was 24mg in a 10ML bottle, I'm thinking this error would bring the nic content between 30mg and 40mg. Im not great with percents so that last part is a guesstimate.

If you were making a 10ml bottle, the extra .3ml of 100mg nic in the needle would add 3mg of nicotine (27mg). If you were making a 5ml bottle it would add 6mg of nic (30mg). Since the amt in the needle is constant, you can't just increase the nic mg by a percentage of the target. HTH

 

[Spazmelda]

If you added exactly .3 ml extra of 100 mg/ml nicotine to a 10 ml batch you'd have 26.21 mg/ml final nicotine concentration

[(2.4 ml + 0.3 ml)*100mg/ml]/10.3 ml=

270 mg/10.3 ml = 26.21 mg/ml

This is assuming all other measurements and concentrations are exactly right (and that's impossible).

Additionally, I don't think measuring the amount of liquid the needle AND the hub contains gives you an accurate idea of how much the needle holds. The hub would be screwed or pushed firmly on the nib of the needle, and wouldn't be filled with liquid, so I think 0.3 ml is a bit of an overestimate of how much the needle contains.

 

[wizard10000]

If you added exactly .3 ml extra of 100 mg/ml nicotine to a 10 ml batch you'd have 26.21 mg/ml final nicotine concentration

[(2.4 ml + 0.3 ml)*100mg/ml]/10.3 ml=

270 mg/10.3 ml = 26.21 mg/ml

This is assuming all other measurements and concentrations are exactly right (and that's impossible).

Additionally, I don't think measuring the amount of liquid the needle AND the hub contains gives you an accurate idea of how much the needle holds. The hub would be screwed or pushed firmly on the nib of the needle, and wouldn't be filled with liquid, so I think 0.3 ml is a bit of an overestimate of how much the needle contains.

This.

A 14 gauge sharp has an internal radius of 0.8mm. We determine the volume of a 75mm cylinder using πr²h, so 3.14*(0.8*0.8)*75=150 cubic mm or 0.15ml.

I'm not sure why we'd measure 1ml of 100mg nic with a syringe and a 3" large bore needle anyway - not saying that Mike intended to do that, but as murphydoodle said the needle in question can only hold 15mg of nicotine if you're using 100mg nic, so it'd raise the nic level of a 5ml batch by 3mg, a 10ml batch by 1.5mg and so on.

 

[Mikenet]

Wow guys, I was off on the last part by quite a bit. Knew I would be which is why I gave such a broad range "30 - 40 mg guesstimate" But that didn't even hit it, lol.

The amount of liquid that was in the needle and hub I believe was close though. I was measuring the liquid in the needle, hub, and whatever liquid is retained in the tip of the syringe just below where the plunger stops. Since that liquid isn't measured between the graduations I considered it extra as well.

Basically I just extracted a little air into the syringe first.

Then filled it with a ML of water to make sure their was no air in the needle. Over the sink I dispensed the water until it was level with where the plunger stops.

With plenty of air above the remaining water I was able to dispense the rest of what was in the needle, hub, and tip, into the graduated cylinder.

I eyeballed the water in the cylinder from the meniscus but like I said before there are no graduations on this cylinder below the 1ML mark. That made it harder to measure but it looked like more than .15ML

Also the reason I was thinking of using the 3 inch 14 gauge needle to measure and mix the nicotine base is because the length allows it to reach the center of the bottle I'm extracting from, and I can extract a little easier with lower gauge needle. So I was considering nicotine distribution in the bottle and longer needles can reach the center easy like pipettes.

Although I'll aim to keep the extra liquid from dispensing from needles, it seems like less of an issue now. Whether it be .15 or .30ML of liquid retention, If the extra nicotine was dispensed the amount it's going to effect my mixed liquids will only be a couple MG at the worst anyway, so that is some relief

 

[wizard10000]

And now that you know what the variation is you can compensate for it

If you don't pull air into the syringe first it's a nonissue as the nic will stay in the needle. If you do pull air into the syringe and if you know how much the needle holds then all you have to do is compensate for the extra juice in the needle when you measure.

Better yet, you mix your nic down *before* you make a 5ml batch by mixing the 100mg nic down to 50mg/33mg/25mg/20mg/whatever and using the diluted nic for small-batch DIY projects.

 

[Mikenet]

I followed through with my plan to test PG and VG without nicotine or flavor so I could narrow down the source of my irritation and coughing.

Im so glad I decided to do this because it saved me guess work.

In my last order I intentionally bought 3 DCC that I knew would produce the TH I needed for the test...

MadVapes 510 2.0 Dual Coil Clear Cartomizer

Those were the first ones I ever tried a few months back, and the first time I vaped, needless to say I coughed my lungs out using that and a liquid with a high PG content.

For the test I filled one of these with straight VG diluted with about 10% distilled water. With it diluted It still took a long time to soak in but ended up working.

The other carto I filled with straight PG with no flavor or nicotine. Easy enough, this stuff is so much easier to work with and I filled this carto in half the time of my other one.

The results couldn't have been closer to what everyone at ECF has said about PG and VG. The only thing I didn't expect is that the PG would be noticeably sweet like the VG when vaping it. It's not overkill sweet but neither the PG or VG are tasteless, at least not what I'm using.

The VG produced very thick vapor, and was very smooth to vape. Absolutely no irritation, but no TH either which I may want to some extent.

The PG had too much TH, and made me cough a little with very little vapor production.

So Im positive now that the primary problem is the PG. The nicotine, and certain flavors Ive tried could also be contributing
to the irritation to some extent but im not as concerned about that since PG has overwhelmingly been the main ingredient in the liquids I've vaped so far. It will be easy to cut down until I find that comfort level.

I think I'll start with something like 50/50 PG VG for my first mix. I was thinking of 5% distilled water in this mix because the VG I have is undiluted and very thick. Any thoughts on if this will be necessary at 50/50 ?

It will be another two days before I mix my first batch because I'm still in preparation mode.

Right now I'm running nicotine test, So far Ive run two test on my nicotine base and two on a bottle of premixed. I'm confident in the test itself and the procedure I'm using because I'm getting consistent results when I retest, but one of the liquids I tested twice was way off target in both test so Ive decided to take a different bottle from the same distributor and test it twice tomorrow.

 

[Prettycat191]

I don't add any DW to thin my VG when I have 40% PG. The PG thins it enough that it's not necessary. Don't have any problems with it absorbing into my Boge cartos. I only ever used DW when I didn't have any PG (other than in the flavorings).

 

[Mikenet]

I did my first DIY mix and it's very weak flavor wise. Surprisingly it also has very little throat hit at only 60/40 PG/VG.

This was the batch I did using eJuice me up....

Targets:

Amount to Make: ......................... 11ML (1 ML will still go to nic testing)

Target Nic: ................................ 26mg (I went 2 MG higher for my target in case I needed to add flavor)

Flavor1(flavor apprentice chocolate): 10%

PG/VG ratio: ................................. PG 60 / VG 40

Amount Added:

PG 98MG Nicotine: .................................... 2.92 ML / 26.55 %

PG: ......................................................... 2.58 ML / 23.58 %

VG: ......................................................... 4.4 ML / 40 %

Chocolate Flavor (contains PG,ethyl, water): .. 1.1 ML / 10 %


My method was to use the same syringe to measure and add everything to the bottle, cleaning and drying it in between to ensure the mesuements had the same margin for error for each ingredient. Once everything was in the bottle I shook for several minutes, then I placed the bottle in a bowl of hot water and let it set for a while. (the water line in the bowl did not reach the top of the bottle so no water got in).

After the bottle was warm to the touch I shook it again for a few minutes, and then I repeated the process. After letting the bottle sit overnight with the cap on, I shook it again before I went to vape it.

......................................................................

The liquid was tested In both the Atty I got, and one of my smaller cartos. In both cases the flavor was barely noticeable and the TH was very weak almost as if this liquid had little or no PG in it, I was surprised. Also the atty gave me trouble,
it had a burnt taste from the first vape after adding 4 drops and letting it sit a while. The carto confirmed the juice was weak though.

Considering this result I was wondering a couple things.

Flavor wise is it typical to add a higher percentage of flavor the higher the VG ratio is? Maybe Id need more of this chocolate flavor at 40 VG than I would at 0 VG ?

Or perhaps this is just a weak flavor and needs more in general, has anyone used it?


Other than that is their anything that I might have done wrong with this mix? I swear the 40VG, 10% flavor taste and acts more like 70VG , 5% flavor. It burnt my atty, has little taste, has tons of vapor, with very little TH.

 

[tricci]

Just wanted to give my $0.02, I use VG juice in my cartomizers all the time and I never have issues. I DIY my own juice and the only PG that goes into my juice is from the flavorings I use. My juice is thick but never has trouble in Smoktech cartos. You should use a syringe to fill them and let them sit for 15 mins to get the poly-fill soaked or, even better, use a carto tank.

 

[Mikenet]

Just wanted to give my $0.02, I use VG juice in my cartomizers all the time and I never have issues. I DIY my own juice and the only PG that goes into my juice is from the flavorings I use. My juice is thick but never has trouble in Smoktech cartos. You should use a syringe to fill them and let them sit for 15 mins to get the poly-fill soaked or, even better, use a carto tank.

The carto I filled this DIY with did fine actually, and I always let them soak. The flavor was just weak, and the TH was weak. I actually managed to fill a carto last week with 90% VG 10% distilled water and vape from that many times just to test out what VG was like without PG.

The problem I had yesterday was with my 306 atty, my liquid does seem a little thick for 40Vg. That on top of the fact that it was my first time filling an atty may have contributed to the burnt wick. At least I think I burnt the wick because it taste somewhat burnt. I'm thinking I'll try to work with it for a day or two more, before I attempt dewicking it.

I just hope I don't break it.