How to make strong cream flavors?/Critique my recipe? Capella Marshmallow?

[mzlynnem]

Hi all, I've been mixing for a couple of months now amidst and following many hours of intense research. I thank all of you for the wealth of information I've been able to glean. Found that reading tons of recipes has taught me best of all, so special thanks to those of you who have posted your work! In case of TL;DR, skip to questions in bold at the bottom

I am now at a standstill with my "signature" cream mix I've been working on since day one. I'd like to ask for opinions on this, and will incorporate it into a question my friend and I remain stumped by: We both prefer strong, creamy mixes that are rich yet pack a punch of flavor- e.g. Bryce's vanilla creme pudding. Like many vendor creams/custards, it is very flavorful and rich without the kind of overly-rich buttery creaminess that seems to dull a mix. How do the vendors get such strongly flavored mixes that remain fairly consistent in flavor as they age? Do any additives, such as sucralose or EM, act as preservatives?

Now, I don't even taste my cream mixes until they've spent at least a week in the steep box. With ingredients like Cap's vanilla custard and TFA Vienna and other creams, I find they can't do without it. I ended up with a decent cream mix my first shot, but it was actually TOO creamy (and I thought there was no such thing!). After some tweaking, I got the best version I have to date by adding Cap marshmallow which smelled perfect to "brighten up" and so perfect the mix. Nearly 2wks later, I tested and it was honestly the best juice I've ever tasted! Two days later, it was a different story. Still a good mix, but the brightness/definition and marshmallow flavor had disappeared, while the almond grew much stronger (as I'm learning is the case with Cap Toasted Almond).

Could be as simple as adding more marshmallow and decreasing and/or removing Praline or Almond, but I'm thinking now is a good time to start asking pro advice. Here is the current recipe (mixed @ 50/50 5mg using Nude Nicotine's nic and VG and Essential Depot PG):

[For now I'll call it "Insanity", but it is temporary ]
14% CAP Van. Custard
5% CAP Pralines & Cream
1% CAP Butter
3% CAP Toasted Almond
PLUS .25% CAP Marshmallow

After 14 days, it tasted amazing- marshmallow brought out the vanilla in the custard so that custard was detectable but nowhere near dominant (just what I had in mind). Butter mixed great with almond for a rich exhale. Two days later, mojo all but gone).

SO MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. What can be done to amp up an entire flavor mix besides adding extra flavor? I want to be able to make strong flavors like Bryce's or Fuzion (though I rarely do fruit, Fuzion's flavors are a great example of the potency I want). Even cheap vendors tend to have "in your face" flavor, even in standalone mixes. I wonder if it comes down to a sweetener...?
2. Any suggestions for my recipe above (flavor notes, brightening/clarifying, etc.)? I have CAP and TFA flavorings, EM, sweetener, also marshmallow from TFA as well their Sweet Cream. I am on the lookout for flavorings in the classifieds and sales on brands I haven't tried yet, so feel free to suggest any brand changes or additions.

THANK YOU, ecf friends and DIY torch-bearers! I will contribute more recipes as I create! Links to recipe caches are always appreciated, too. Especially CAP recipes, as I haven't found any CAP threads on here that haven't quickly lost their Capella's-Recipes-Only status.

 

[Heabob]

I've found that Caps Vanilla Custard is way to strong even at 10%.
Marshmallow I use at 1-2% always.
I've found vanillas, creams, custards, and cheesecake change a lot over time, usually stronger at 3 weeks.
Sweeteners and EM won't add any more flavor, just the opposite.
You may be over flavoring trying to get there IMO.

Just an idea:

5% CAP Van. Custard
1% CAP Pralines & Cream
1% CAP Butter
1% CAP Toasted Almond
1% CAP Marshmallow
1% CAP French Vanilla
1% CAP Simply Vanilla

 

[Cookster]

Too much flavoring was my first thought, also. I would try to keep the total flavoring under 20% to start. Also try a mix at 10%. Counter-intuitive but, in DIY, less is really more

 

[mzlynnem]

Thanks for the suggestions! I thought I'd be able to work magic with this DIY stuff immediately, as I'd done so much research and especially in regards to percentages since that seemed to be a major problem with many people starting out, along with not allowing enough steep time... But as I was just telling my friend this morning, the more I learn the more I realize how very little I have learned. I see many Cap recipes at 20-22% total flavoring and felt sure the over-flavoring mistake would be one I'd never fall into. From all I read, I was under the impression CAP wasn't as highly concentrated as others and required that 20%-ish range. Guess thats what I get for leaning to heavily on others' research I will try that recipe suggestion, Heabob. Especially seeing as the only really GREAT mix I've made totals 6% flavoring.

So you guys think the %'s are likely entirely to blame for problem with this mix? I also fear that combining flavors with drastically different steep times could present a problem- like the best window of time to vape a certain flavor will be long gone by the time another flavor matures... ?? As I said,,, The more I learn, the more possibilities increase, Thanks again. I have a feeling I'll be participating much more in these threads now,

Crap... I knew I'd have to do it eventually, but I'm going to have to break down and find my own optimal %'s for each individual flavor. Shoulda done it before building a 30+ flavor collection, lol.

 

[ukeman]

CAP flavors in my book, do use higher percentages than other brands... still you may find that you have to tweak down just a bit.

There are lots of charts that have CAP ranges up to 15% which are pretty reliable, so you might keep that in mind for total %'s.

I believe the typical sweeteners will sabotage the mix.

I'd look for other recommended brands to try as well. In my experience, CAP can have some winners, but many while tasting good, just don't pop as much as some others...
I'm a fruit mixer mostly (always use some cream), but I prefer FA, HS, Inawera, for fruits over CAP

Not sure how pro's do it, but i'm sure there are some tricks.

 

[graffinfected]

i would have to agree with everyone else here. I think you are over flavoring..

my idea would be to cut down on everything.. espescially the CAp Vanilla custard. sometimes that flavor will completely take over.,

I also was thinking about what UKEMAN said about checking online for a list of flavor percentages. And i agree they are reliable for most people but the problem with this is that those percentages are usually for Single flavored recipe's so you might want to take that into consideration when mixing other flavors together.. So if someone says CAPELLAS vanilla custard is good at 10% then i usually cut it in half if im going to me mixing it with another flavor.

 

[Heabob]

Crap... I knew I'd have to do it eventually, but I'm going to have to break down and find my own optimal %'s for each individual flavor. Shoulda done it before building a 30+ flavor collection, lol.

Well, most flavors used as mixers don't really have a % for a stand alone vape, or it won't relate at all to multi-flavored recipes.

Main flavor I start at 10% usually, except for the stronger flavors start at 3-5%.

Adding mixers like vanilla, cream, and custard are usually in the 1-5% range.

Try to keep total flavoring at 15-20% OR less.

A lot of it is a guessing game at first anyhow...

 

[GMayberry]

Let me ask this in addition to the prior questions. If a flavor is suggested at say 15% stand alone, and I mix with one other flavor, I should cut the 15% down to 7.5% right? If I mix it with 2 other flavors, would I cut it down to 5%?

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Let me ask this in addition to the prior questions. If a flavor is suggested at say 15% stand alone, and I mix with one other flavor, I should cut the 15% down to 7.5% right? If I mix it with 2 other flavors, would I cut it down to 5%?

It all depends, for example. Say I was making Blueberry Cheesecake and both recommended percentages were 15% for single flavor juices, but I want the cheesecake to be the predominant flavor and the Blueberry to be the secondary flavor. I would go with something like 10% Cheesecake and 5% Blueberry.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[ukeman]

Let me ask this in addition to the prior questions. If a flavor is suggested at say 15% stand alone, and I mix with one other flavor, I should cut the 15% down to 7.5% right? If I mix it with 2 other flavors, would I cut it down to 5%?

i guess so, it is logical and mathematical equation stuff...

but i often make stand alone mixes at my desired % and then combine them in percentages how I would want one or more to stand out more.

In the case of ie. a Mango, i prefer Ina, or Hangsens (maybe FA) but CAP Sweet Mango, although i probably wouldn't use it stand alone, has a really natural taste to it, and i will do ie. HS Mango 5% + 1 or2% CAP S.Mango to get what I want from both.

Then I vape it alone or will mix that with ie. a stand alone FA Lychee (4% separate mix), add some Sweet Cream and combine aprox 50/50 or whatever.... makes a great recipe btw.

 

[mzlynnem]

Let me ask this in addition to the prior questions. If a flavor is suggested at say 15% stand alone, and I mix with one other flavor, I should cut the 15% down to 7.5% right? If I mix it with 2 other flavors, would I cut it down to 5%?

Not sure if anyone else does anything like this, but... Even after all the homework I did before starting, I still use my nose to estimate ratios and pair complementary flavors. Even tho I may not have the total flavor percentages right, I often end up very close to what I was going for... Just by opening 2 or more bottles and smelling them together at different distances from my face, lol. It was very helpful when I was tinkering with my recipe above. That is how I knew to use CAP marshmallow as the "sweetener" instead of brown sugar, sweet cream, cotton candy, or even TFA marshmallow.

Heabob- yeah, I see that now... No matter how much anyone reads, it will always be a guessing game to some degree at first. Reading/mixing popular recipes when starting out was great for me, and I think a good suggestion for other beginners, because it adds a lot to confidence and could make the whole process far less daunting to those who are nervous to get their feet wet. A little success in the beginning was enough to hook me for the long haul And that feeling you get, when you first realize you can make a good mix and are no longer shackled to $15+ bottles... Awesome!

Well... I'll drop back in and report the results ASAP so you guys can all know you were right Will probably post another thread before then, as I've been thinking about it since I wrote this one... Just didn't want to spam questions. Especially ones that are likely to be pretty frequent Thanks!!

 

[Heabob]

When you see a stand alone percent given at 15%, cut it to 10%, unless it's butterscotch, lol.

I've seen some funny stand alone percents like pineapple at 15%, OMG, 3% is way strong enough for me.

Horchata 20%, LMAO.

If a flavor bites your head off, it's not gonna be a good ADV, or not for very long anyway.

I think that vaping all these over-flavored mixes is causing some vapers tongue, and may be why some are getting weak tasting juice.

Just speculation tho.

 

[michaelsil1]

Hi all, I've been mixing for a couple of months now amidst and following many hours of intense research. I thank all of you for the wealth of information I've been able to glean. Found that reading tons of recipes has taught me best of all, so special thanks to those of you who have posted your work! In case of TL;DR, skip to questions in bold at the bottom

I am now at a standstill with my "signature" cream mix I've been working on since day one. I'd like to ask for opinions on this, and will incorporate it into a question my friend and I remain stumped by: We both prefer strong, creamy mixes that are rich yet pack a punch of flavor- e.g. Bryce's vanilla creme pudding. Like many vendor creams/custards, it is very flavorful and rich without the kind of overly-rich buttery creaminess that seems to dull a mix. How do the vendors get such strongly flavored mixes that remain fairly consistent in flavor as they age? Do any additives, such as sucralose or EM, act as preservatives?

Now, I don't even taste my cream mixes until they've spent at least a week in the steep box. With ingredients like Cap's vanilla custard and TFA Vienna and other creams, I find they can't do without it. I ended up with a decent cream mix my first shot, but it was actually TOO creamy (and I thought there was no such thing!). After some tweaking, I got the best version I have to date by adding Cap marshmallow which smelled perfect to "brighten up" and so perfect the mix. Nearly 2wks later, I tested and it was honestly the best juice I've ever tasted! Two days later, it was a different story. Still a good mix, but the brightness/definition and marshmallow flavor had disappeared, while the almond grew much stronger (as I'm learning is the case with Cap Toasted Almond).

Could be as simple as adding more marshmallow and decreasing and/or removing Praline or Almond, but I'm thinking now is a good time to start asking pro advice. Here is the current recipe (mixed @ 50/50 5mg using Nude Nicotine's nic and VG and Essential Depot PG):

[For now I'll call it "Insanity", but it is temporary ]
14% CAP Van. Custard
5% CAP Pralines & Cream
1% CAP Butter
3% CAP Toasted Almond
PLUS .25% CAP Marshmallow

After 14 days, it tasted amazing- marshmallow brought out the vanilla in the custard so that custard was detectable but nowhere near dominant (just what I had in mind). Butter mixed great with almond for a rich exhale. Two days later, mojo all but gone).

SO MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. What can be done to amp up an entire flavor mix besides adding extra flavor? I want to be able to make strong flavors like Bryce's or Fuzion (though I rarely do fruit, Fuzion's flavors are a great example of the potency I want). Even cheap vendors tend to have "in your face" flavor, even in standalone mixes. I wonder if it comes down to a sweetener...?
2. Any suggestions for my recipe above (flavor notes, brightening/clarifying, etc.)? I have CAP and TFA flavorings, EM, sweetener, also marshmallow from TFA as well their Sweet Cream. I am on the lookout for flavorings in the classifieds and sales on brands I haven't tried yet, so feel free to suggest any brand changes or additions.

THANK YOU, ecf friends and DIY torch-bearers! I will contribute more recipes as I create! Links to recipe caches are always appreciated, too. Especially CAP recipes, as I haven't found any CAP threads on here that haven't quickly lost their Capella's-Recipes-Only status.

I agree with everyone!


Cut your above Recipe Percentages in half except for the Marshmallow leave it the same.

 

[RogerWilco357]

The Nose knows best I too agree with that ...

Not sure if anyone else does anything like this, but... Even after all the homework I did before starting, I still use my nose to estimate ratios and pair complementary flavors. Even tho I may not have the total flavor percentages right, I often end up very close to what I was going for... Just by opening 2 or more bottles and smelling them together at different distances from my face, lol. It was very helpful when I was tinkering with my recipe above. That is how I knew to use CAP marshmallow as the "sweetener" instead of brown sugar, sweet cream, cotton candy, or even TFA marshmallow.

Heabob- yeah, I see that now... No matter how much anyone reads, it will always be a guessing game to some degree at first. Reading/mixing popular recipes when starting out was great for me, and I think a good suggestion for other beginners, because it adds a lot to confidence and could make the whole process far less daunting to those who are nervous to get their feet wet. A little success in the beginning was enough to hook me for the long haul And that feeling you get, when you first realize you can make a good mix and are no longer shackled to $15+ bottles... Awesome!

Well... I'll drop back in and report the results ASAP so you guys can all know you were right Will probably post another thread before then, as I've been thinking about it since I wrote this one... Just didn't want to spam questions. Especially ones that are likely to be pretty frequent Thanks!!

 

[Heabob]

The Nose knows best I too agree with that ...

A lot of flavors I just can't smell, bad sniffer here, got vapers nose

I have to drip a little drop on my finger to get an idea of flavor strength.

Horchata & Cherry burnt my tongue, ya they're strong all right, lol.

Although I did smell them, I just had to taste em' too

 

[Yiorgo]

Have you had any luck with any of these suggestions? Or are you're remixes still steeping?

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