High nic freebase?

[MetalSteve]

Tl, dr version

Tried a 36 mg freebase juice. It was harsh and tasted like medicine. I steeped it for a month (shaking daily and let it breathe a little) and it's better but still not good. Is it the nic, the flavor, the company? Should I steep longer?

Normal version

I've been vaping for a few months now (45-50 mg nic salts in a pod system) and I'd been thinking about upgrading and reducing nic. So I got a Nautilus 2 and a lower strength juice. I believe the company makes juice to order (they have lots of options to customize). I decided on a 36 mg blueberry maple donut (freebase). Out of the package, the juice was gross. It was really harsh and tasted like medicine. I had to throw away a brand new atomizer because the taste lingered.

I read about steeping on here and elsewhere and decided to give it a try. The juice spent a month in a cabinet. I shook it once a day and let it breathe for a few hours once. I called the company and they said steeping was entirely up to me, they don't suggest that all their juice customers do it.

I'm trying it again now. It's tolerable but not really "good." It's still kind of harsh, but not as bad as before. It still tastes a bit like medicine too.

So, where did I go wrong? Is this why salt nic exists and why most don't go above 18 (or 24) mg freebase? Is there something else I can do to improve it?

Additional notes

I'm using the Nautilus 2 on the Zelos mod with the 1.8 ohm coil. I usually keep it 11-12.5W. Most of my juices are 45-50 mg salts in dessert flavors. I'm slowly phasing out the 45-50 mg juices and collecting 30-40 mg salts.

 

[AngeNZ]

Freebase nic at 36mg strength is going to taste harsh, regardless of what you do. Dilute it down to 18mg, or possibly try 24mg. 18mg should be fine, but 24mg will still be a bit harsh.

And yeah, this is why ppl use nic salts - to get higher nicotine percentages without the harshness.

I quit using 18mg nic - by chain vaping

 

[AngeNZ]

If you can get some VG, here's a chart on how much to dilute it, to get 18mg ejuice. Unfortunately it's going to dilute your flavourings as well:

 

[MetalSteve]

I quit using 18mg nic - by chain vaping

I quit (am quitting) with 50 mg nic salts. If I end up going down soon it will still be a while before I get to 18 mg.

 

[the wind]

I quit (am quitting) with 50 mg nic salts. If I end up going down soon it will still be a while before I get to 18 mg.

you can get enough nic at 6% with a sub ohm set up.it will feel like sandpaper above 6% of freebase(at least for me)not saying you should,just giving a option.

 

[IDJoel]

you can get enough nic at 6%

I don't think you mean 6%. 6% is the equivalent of 60mg/mL (there is approx. 1,000mg/mL in pure nicotine). This is a common error; and why ECF encourages discussing nicotine in terms of "mg/mL."

So, where did I go wrong? Is this why salt nic exists and why most don't go above 18 (or 24) mg freebase? Is there something else I can do to improve it?

You didn't do anything wrong that I can see. There are lots of things that can effect the way any given e-liquid might taste:

• I agree with @AngeNZ, that if you are used to 40-50mg/mL nic salt, 36mg/mL freebase nic is going to seem harsh. And, "no," it won't get better. Aging nicotine, and exposing it to fresh air, will only oidize the nic... leading to increasing harshness.
• Ethyl Alcohol (aka. ethanol, PGA) is sometimes used, in some flavor concentrates, to act as a flavor carrier and solvent. This alcohol can also add harshness to the vaping experience. This is where breathing the e-liquid can have some benefit. Depending on the total volume of the bottle, how much alcohol is present, the size of the opening, and the liquid's temperature; a few hours, to over night, is usually adequate to allow the alcohol to evaporate. Remove the cap, as well as any secondary dripping tip, and place in an out of the way place where it won't get knocked over.
• As for the medicine/chemical taste(s); again there are multiple possible causes.
  • Low quality flavor concentrates were used. (no fix)
  • Too much flavoring was used. This might be able to be diluted, by adding plain, unflavored PG, and/or VG. This will also dilute the final nicotine strength. (One of the more common symptoms of over flavoring is a strong "artificial" or chemical-like taste.)
  • Unwanted early aromatic notes. Again, these are most often (though not always) due to over-flavoring. Sometimes, these can be reduced by breathing the mix (see above). But... be careful about breathing the e-liquid too long. Besides potential for oxidizing the nicotine, one also risks losing too much of the desirable aromatics, and the e-liquid can become much less interesting and complex.
  • The flavor is just not your cup of tea. (no fix; give it away to another vaper) I can't begin to tell you how many commercial e-liquids I have tried, that other vapers absolutely love, and they just didn't work for my particular palate. The reviewers weren't wrong. And, neither was I. It simply wasn't right for me. That is why I will always suggest buying the smallest amount possible, and test it out first. Then, if it works for you, you can decide if you want to buy larger, more economically priced, bottles.
• Finally, while your hardware setup seems to be in the "normal" range (whatever that means )... but, don't be shy about experimenting with different adjustments.
  • Try adjusting the airflow. Opening the airflow will dilute the vaper, and can help to calm down strong flavors, and reduce perceived harshness. Closing airflow, can intensify flavors, and help to bring out more delicate notes that are otherwise lost in the background.
  • Try adjusting the power (wattage). Flavor concentrates are made up up multiple chemical compounds, to create the desired final flavor ("blueberry" for example). These compounds can have different boiling points. Too much heat can scorch, or "burn off" the flavor before your taste buds have a chance to taste it. Too little heat, and the compound may never vaporize, even though the carrier(s) (such as PG and/or VG) do. Try changing power in small increments (both higher and lower) until you find that liquids sweet spot.
  • Airflow, and power level, work hand-in-hand. A higher temp may also want greater airflow. Experiment with both.
  • Coil types. The Aspire Nautilus 2 has a few different coil options. Sometimes one coil works better for flavor than another.

One last thought. Atomizers really are different (one from the next). If you start looking at the atomizer threads here on ECF; you will see, that it is not uncommon to see one person say " I like this for my creams, and custards," or maybe "this is great for fruits and deserts." I can't explain why (airflow patterns, chamber size, coil to air inlet distance, etc.), but some attys seem to just be better suited for certain flavor types. This is far from universal. One vaper may like atty "X" for fruits, and beverages, while another vaper likes the same atty for tobaccos and custards.

For me; finding a good set-up for optimal flavor, is a lot more difficult than just chucking huge clouds with little regard for flavor.

Be patient with yourself... know that it is going to take some time and experimentation, to find what fits you best. Pods are easier: they are "on" or "off." They work for you, or they don't. You have now moved to a more advanced (more things to control/adjust) and it is going to take some time to learn what works best for you. Keep doing what you are doing: trying new things, and asking questions. You will find success.



I lied... one more thought.
If you want the most specific help; provide as much detail about the e-liquid you are questioning, as you can. Manufacturer, liquid name, any adjustments you ordered... like extra flavor shots (you mentioned they customize the order), and even a vendor link can help.

When you are specific, someone who has personal experience, may be able to provide more practical/detailed help.

 

[the wind]

I don't think you mean 6%. 6% is the equivalent of 60mg/mL (there is approx. 1,000mg/mL in pure nicotine). This is a common error; and why ECF encourages discussing nicotine in terms of "mg/mL."

yup, i was thinking mg but typed %.60mg freebase would really hurt in a sub ohm set up.

 

[mac-nutty]

Freebase nic at 36mg strength is going to taste harsh, regardless of what you do. Dilute it down to 18mg, or possibly try 24mg. 18mg should be fine, but 24mg will still be a bit harsh.

And yeah, this is why ppl use nic salts - to get higher nicotine percentages without the harshness.

I quit using 18mg nic - by chain vaping

i quit using a al85 and a baby beast tank with 3mg
10-15ml a day
but i found the best tasting juice ever from a old shop that has since past rip

 

[MetalSteve]

If you want the most specific help; provide as much detail about the e-liquid you are questioning, as you can. Manufacturer, liquid name, any adjustments you ordered... like extra flavor shots (you mentioned they customize the order), and even a vendor link can help.

Wow! Thank you for such a thorough reply, @IDJoel! Your comments and suggestions are super helpful.

The liquid in question is this: Maple Berry Donut Vape Juice I didn't customize it aside from getting it in 36 mg.

Following your suggestions, I found it to be tolerable with the airflow all the way open and the wattage at 11.5. I just got the 1.6 ohm coils too. I'm going to finish it but stay with salts as I try to reduce nic, for the time being.

 

[Opinionated]

I quit (am quitting) with 50 mg nic salts. If I end up going down soon it will still be a while before I get to 18 mg.

Just buy salts in the 35mg.. no big deal, just don't go to freebase until you hit 18mg..

And you don't have to use freebase at all. When salts came out I DIY'd with them and used them in the lower strengths as well because I have throat issues from smoking so long.

So, up to you but freebase is harsh and yes, that is exactly why people switch to salts in the higher mg..

 

[MetalSteve]

Just buy salts in the 35mg.. no big deal, just don't go to freebase until you hit 18mg..

That's my plan! Thanks!

 

[IDJoel]

Wow! Thank you for such a thorough reply, @IDJoel! Your comments and suggestions are super helpful.

You are most welcome. I am glad that some of it was useful to you.

The liquid in question is this: Maple Berry Donut Vape Juice I didn't customize it aside from getting it in 36 mg.

Cool. Hopefully, someone who has Vaporfi experience, will come along and share their thoughts.

Following your suggestions, I found it to be tolerable with the airflow all the way open and the wattage at 11.5. I just got the 1.6 ohm coils too. I'm going to finish it but stay with salts as I try to reduce nic, for the time being.

I'm glad that adjusting the airflow helped. At least you can get some use out of your investment.

And, @MetalSteve, to build on @Opinionated's previous comment:

Just buy salts in the 35mg.. no big deal, just don't go to freebase until you hit 18mg..

If you want to gradually reduce your nicotine intake, and those in-between nic levels are hard to find; you can always buy some zero nic e-liquid in the same flavor, and use it to dilute the nicotine level without diluting the flavor. That way, you can take your nicotine down to any level, as you see fit. And, you are not having to finish an entire bottle, before moving to the next nic concentration. Likewise, if you are having a stressful moment, and need to go back up; you have that ability as well.

I would only suggest, to get a small sample size of the flavor, to make sure it is one you enjoy... before you stock up for the long haul.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

So you are somehow surprised that freebase nic has a strong taste? It's supposed to—that's the whole reason that salt nic was invented.

 

[newyork13]

I'm not going to add to all the comments you've gotten so far on liquids.

But, atomizers can retain the flavor from strong liquids.
Don't throw them away. Instead take them apart completely and soak them for a few hours in vodka or grain alcohol. Lingering smell/taste gone.

 

[AngeNZ]

And more importantly - good luck with your quitting smoking

 

[MetalSteve]

And more importantly - good luck with your quitting smoking

Thanks! It's been a little over three months. So far, so good, for the most part.