Flavour art Expert needed

[randomhousegir]

Question is fairly simple I believe. I'm trying to make a clone of naked Hawaiian pog. POG is passion fruit orange and guava. I read somewhere that it was all Flavour art and then it was the Mandarin orange passion fruit and guava from them. I have purchased some from RTS Vapes, and I've done a little looking and realized that Flavour art is used in 2% to 3% ratios.

What I am curious about is I am supposed to have a ratio of 2 parts passionfruit, 1 part orange, 2 parts guava. So I mixed 3% passion, 1.5% mandrin, and 3% guava in a 10 ml bottle.......my question is since it is 3 flavors should I be mixing in 30ml instead? My nic is 3mg and I do an almost 100% vg minus a little pg I premix into it to help my pg based flavors meld in quickly.

Thanks for taking the time to read my hopefully easy and hopefully not rambling post.

vape on!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

The volume of the bottle doesn't really make a difference. Your percents are based on the volume of the bottle used so your ratio of the 3 ingredients should still work out to be same. With a bigger bottle you just get more of the recipe.



I have heard that guava kind of takes over everything so that may mean you need to adjust that percent down a little. Depends on you.

 

[randomhousegir]

I guess what I meant is normally the 3% of one flavor would make a 10 ml bottle...where I have 3 flavors should I do 30 ml vs 10ml?

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

 

[jambi]

I guess what I meant is normally the 3% of one flavor would make a 10 ml bottle...where I have 3 flavors should I do 30 ml vs 10ml?

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

No, work out the ratios of your flavors without regard for batch size. Also, "FlavourArt is used in 2 to 3 % ratios" is not a Commandment. It's a very rough guideline. It doesn't mean you're capped at 3% max flavor (unless you want to be). You're the chef, mix at whatever ratios please you.

I've never had the juice you're trying to clone, so no point of departure. I would simply start with "Equality is the Best Policy": 2% Guava, 2% Mandarin, 2% Passionfruit From there you can adjust your ratios until you've got the balance you desire.

Whatever batch size you run your tests in is up to you. When I'm trying to find balance between 2 or more flavors, I do it in 5 ml. batches, since I only intend to taste the result. For semi-finished recipes I run 10 or 15 ml batches. That's the stage where I put a liquid through its paces in a variety or drippers, tanks, take it traveling to work with me, share it with friends, to see how it holds up in daily use, vs. just sitting at my mixing station with a dripper focusing all my attention on it. Once all the little adjustments and tweaks are made (or I decide to trash it ), I consider it finished and mix 30 ml batches from there on out.

So, don't worry about the bottle size. Decide on the ratios you want for each flavor (repeat, don't worry about the batch size), enter those ratios into your calc, enter your batch size into the calc too, and add your flavors according to what your calc spits out. Following your calc, 3 % Guava in a 10 ml batch will be the same percentage as 3% in a 30 ml batch, but the amount you add to make 30 mls will obviously increase.

If you decide you like your juice and want to increase the batch size, just raise the batch size in the calc and don't touch anything else. The amount of flavoring you add will increase for a larger batch, but the base percentages don't change. Follow your base recipe changing only batch size and your finished juice will taste identical whether your batch size is 10, 30, 120, or 1000 mls.

Only thing to add is that, I've found that larger batch sizes sometimes require longer steeps. Seems logical...those little molecules have a much longer commute in 120 mls than they do in 10.

 

[CagedSpam]

Not an expert here, but I have used FA flavors before.

Consider making your recipe at your current percentages in what size you like(smaller bottles at first means less waste if it turns out poor).

Due to the strength of FA flavors, consider reducing your percentages into something like .5%, .25%, .5% to keep the ratios you mentioned proportionate.

Info gathered from here
HIC's "My notes on"

Not affiliated or intended to advertise the above

 

[randomhousegir]

I must suck at explaining myself via typing lol. You all are very helpful but I am not explaining well.....

I normally use flavorwest and I make all my own juice for years, but have never used flavour art.

If I was to take the flavors I put in this 10 ml bottle and split them between 3 different 10 ml bottles with each flavoring in a different bottle I would still be at the manufacturer ''s recommended ratios for making the 3 bottles and having them potentially taste correct.

Since I am putting all 3 flavors in the same bottle at normal amounts for a stand alone flavor (but all mixed together) should I be worried that I have 7.5% flavoring total? I just only have some small bottles of flavor and don't want to waste it.

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

 

[dannyv45]

No you would not have to worry

10% of flavor for a 10ml bottle would be 1ml
10% of flavor for a 30ml bottle would be 3mls

see how that works.

 

[DaveP]

I must suck at explaining myself via typing lol. You all are very helpful but I am not explaining well.....

I normally use flavorwest and I make all my own juice for years, but have never used flavour art.

If I was to take the flavors I put in this 10 ml bottle and split them between 3 different 10 ml bottles with each flavoring in a different bottle I would still be at the manufacturer ''s recommended ratios for making the 3 bottles and having them potentially taste correct.

Since I am putting all 3 flavors in the same bottle at normal amounts for a stand alone flavor (but all mixed together) should I be worried that I have 7.5% flavoring total? I just only have some small bottles of flavor and don't want to waste it.

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

Download this ejuice calculator and you can enter the names of the flavors and the percentages you want the final result to contain. It will adjust the ml or mg amounts accordingly as you change total volume of the mix and add in the Nic, PG, and VG.

eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator

If you mix by weight, go to Tools/Grams Set and enter the weight equivalents for the mix components. Go here to see the data to enter for weight.

Botboy141 Guide to Mixing By Weight • /r/DIY_eJuice

Naturally, you'd want to make the prominent flavor in a higher percentage with the others in percentages to add to the overall flavor. Below is a link to Flavourart percentage recommendations. Maybe it will give you an idea for your juice creation.

Flavor Art single percentages list updated.

 

[randomhousegir]

Thanks everyone. I love the DIY forum...it's just been a minute since my last post and I was usually in the flavor west area.

Many thanks

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

 

[randomhousegir]

Any suggestions on steep time? I have a nice one that also controls temperature or is it more of a "vape then steep if needed" situation?

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

 

[IDJoel]

Since I am putting all 3 flavors in the same bottle at normal amounts for a stand alone flavor (but all mixed together) should I be worried that I have 7.5% flavoring total? I just only have some small bottles of flavor and don't want to waste it.

Hi random,
Not sure if you got the answer you wanted. All the posts are correct, but I think i see you asking a different question, so I am going to throw in my half penny's worth.

To review, as was already stated 3% in 10 mL is still 3% in 100 mL. The only thing that changes is the volume (how much finished product you have. Same goes for the total flavor percentage you mentioned of 7.5%.

Now, to me, I believe I am hearing you voice concern that 7.5% total flavoring might be too much.

The simple (and not very helpful answer) is: "it all depend on how 7.5% tastes to you."

One thing you might try, if you are fairly confident the 2:1:2 ratio is what you want, is to make a flavor base first. That simply means mixing only the flavor concentrates together by themselves to make a new concentrate. Now you can take the new concentrate and use it like a single flavor mix. It makes it easy to experiment with varying total flavor percentages without mucking about with the 2:1:2 ratio.

So might look like this:
2 mL Passion Fruit-FA
1 mL Mandarin Orange-FA
2 mL Guava-FA
(actual volumes can be whatever you want. I only chose those because you said you only had small bottles.)
Mix thoroughly.

You now have 5 mL of new flavor concentrate (or flavor base). Lets call this new concentrate "POG" for convenience.

Now all you have to do is mix POG at various percentages, just like you would any other single flavor, in your preferred PG/VG ratios and nic level, to find at what percentage you like it best, and you are all set.

DO NOTE: This works best when you are pretty confident of the given ratio. If you are fairly certain you are not going to want "more passion fruit and less guava" for example. Though you could still do this to find your "best" total flavor percentage; and then go back and adjust the ratio. I doubt you will find that your preferred total percentage will change a whole bunch.

 

[randomhousegir]

Thank you. I guess the real test....is now I vape that bottle...

The flamethrower is evidence that someone, at some time said to themselves "I really want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"

 

[Hoosier]

Here's a thought experiment for you.

If I mix 3 single flavoring juices all at 3% the total flavoring in each is 3%.

If I mix all 3 juices into one bottle, the total flavoring is 3%.

I work quite a bit with FA. I will make a single flavoring juice with the baseline flavor I'm interested in. I spend the time to get the flavoring level just right. It's not unusual for me to end up with something silly like 2.05% flavoring for it to be exactly what I think it should be.

Then I start adding the other flavorings in my baseline, very little at a time, and go for"close" then stash it for a few weeks before I go back to it.

 

[CloudMutilator]

I must suck at explaining myself via typing lol. You all are very helpful but I am not explaining well.....

I normally use flavorwest and I make all my own juice for years, but have never used flavour art.

If I was to take the flavors I put in this 10 ml bottle and split them between 3 different 10 ml bottles with each flavoring in a different bottle I would still be at the manufacturer ''s recommended ratios for making the 3 bottles and having them potentially taste correct.

Since I am putting all 3 flavors in the same bottle at normal amounts for a stand alone flavor (but all mixed together) should I be worried that I have 7.5% flavoring total? I just only have some small bottles of flavor and don't want to waste it.

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

The answer you are actually looking for, is that you need to add just a little more flavor to all three categories to get it right. You are correct, when blending flavors that are good at standalone concentrations, you need to rework the concentration for the blend, as some flavors will overpower or detract from others. I read this somewhere else on this or another forum like it last night. so for example, if you mix each in it's own bottle and get a 3% solution, if you were to break down the POG combinations you'll probably find the flavors more in the 4 to 5% range or higher. I would recommend mixing it straight, let it steep a bit and then give it a taste. If the flavor is off, start with the one you can detect the least, add a drop, steep and taste, and keep adjusting, writing down what you added each time so that if you finally got the feeling that you've got it right, you will know what amount of which flavors you used and you now have your formula. I hope that helps.

 

[randomhousegir]

Here's a thought experiment for you.

If I mix 3 single flavoring juices all at 3% the total flavoring in each is 3%.

If I mix all 3 juices into one bottle, the total flavoring is 3%.

I work quite a bit with FA. I will make a single flavoring juice with the baseline flavor I'm interested in. I spend the time to get the flavoring level just right. It's not unusual for me to end up with something silly like 2.05% flavoring for it to be exactly what I think it should be.

Then I start adding the other flavorings in my baseline, very little at a time, and go for"close" then stash it for a few weeks before I go back to it.

Hey!! Good to see ya still kicking around. You are a vape expert so I appreciate you taking the time to help. (Not that I appreciate ANY of the other suggestions I've gotten any less, for the record)
I'm going to try and hit the flavors as stand alone then mess with it from there. I was trying to not waste my juice BUT I may just get the flavor west versions so I get more bang for my buck...plus for some reason I never have to steep flavor west and I'm totally lazy...so if I can get it and have it not need steeping that appeals to my lazier side haha

The flamethrower is evidence that someone, at some time said to themselves "I really want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"

 

[Hoosier]

Setting it back isn't about steeping really.

It's about getting away from it and making sure wishful thinking isn't overpowering your taste buds. Or cleansing the palate. Or whatever one would like to call it...

I'm still kicking, seldom jump in though. Plenty of great mixers have come up and provide fantastic advice, so don't feel the need to jump in either. Old dinosaurs like me just become fossils which makes typing difficult...

 

[DaveP]

Not an expert here, but I have used FA flavors before.

Consider making your recipe at your current percentages in what size you like(smaller bottles at first means less waste if it turns out poor).

Due to the strength of FA flavors, consider reducing your percentages into something like .5%, .25%, .5% to keep the ratios you mentioned proportionate.

Info gathered from here
HIC's "My notes on"

Not affiliated or intended to advertise the above

This guy in your link (HIC) must have the olfactory bulb and taste buds we all envy! I wish I could sense the background notes he senses in a juice.

I created a small list of FA tobacco flavors from his recommendations that I need to try and add to my small, but growing FA flavor collection.

 

[CagedSpam]

He has a few recipes in that "other" place. Very low percentages and accurate taste. Top tier mixologist IMO.

@randomhousegir hows the mix going?

 

[DaveP]

He has a few recipes in that "other" place. Very low percentages and accurate taste. Top tier mixologist IMO.

I need to order some more flavorings to round out my tobacco flavors and start doing some mixes with additional flavors. I've been testing out individual tobaccos just to see what I like for the last couple of months. Some need additional additives to round out the base flavor.

It's hard to figure out what does what, when to add AP and other flavor boosters and sweeteners. I have tobacco mixes from flavors that are named for tobacco, but taste sweet and nothing like tobacco. Then, I have flavors like HS highway that I like, but they are just tobacco and need something else to round them out.

Any suggestions or links on assessing a mix and determining what a mix needs to balance out the overall result? So far, I really like FA Virginia, HS Desert Ship, HS Highway, and HS Tobacco. Those are good vapes from a single flavor.

FA Shade and FA 7 Leaves are good, but need something to boost tobacco notes.

Vape Wizard is a popular mix fixer, but most vendors are out of it, so I haven't tried it.

 

[CagedSpam]

You are probably light years ahead of me in the tobacco dept. The only AH-HA moment came after a few months of vaping RY4-D and AP for a halo clone, later a Cuban cigar ejuice came through work.

- That was the smell! I think Halos Tribeca is actually cigar.

It has been said that some of HICs' inspiration comes from standing in line at Starbucks seeing their recipes and ingredients up on the board.

Might be worth a trip to your local tobacconist? see what percolates

I've had decent luck with Cactus Cooler and Tobacco WTA, both from Nude Nic. Far from perfect but all part of the journey.

IIRC @dannyv45 is one of ECF's Masters of Tobacco flavor, but you probably knew that.