DIY Magnetic Mixer vs Vortex Mixer vs anyother method

[BlkWolfMidnight]

I know this is a repost of a repost of a repost and likely this dead horse has been beaten before.

I'm back in to DIY liquids, I've recently been employing several methods so I'll post what I've found.

Dryer- Great idea, better hope your liquid is capped well, I'm not fully sure though that the melting point of the plastics isn't reached even on the low setting. The bottle was, gummy at best tacky at the worse part of it all. The cap came off one mixture and I smelled of Watermelon strawberry for a week (Though got asked what kind of dryer sheets I use).

Blender- Something about spinning a bottle at 10k on up RPM sounded like a really, really bad idea. The dremel didn't fair well either as both times the bottles critically failed or worse, only loss here was 50/50 mix without nic as I was afraid it would happen (and it did).

Cap on/off- Steeping works wonderfully like this, mixing not so much. The bottles re separated after shake mixing for a moment, I guess it tasted alright but still kind of leery about the layered e-liquid, tossed samples shortly after.

Hot water bath-Nope, just no, no, just no. Though a great idea but the issue here is it made a sweet-tart juice turn in to sour pucker vape (I've never been able to reproduce this any other way). It was great if you liked the sour lemon heads candy as a kid, I vaped it all to the last drop myself but yah, major chemical alterations happened.

Sonic Mixer- Didn't seem to do much, It mixed it but just not a lot more then a few shakes and go did. I would guess on some sort of molecular level it mixed it but no noticeable difference.

Magnetic Mixer w/Hot plate- This seems to do the best, I can see how the suspension of the liquid changes and the uniformity of the mixture is almost perfect. The hot plate is set to 50 Celsius only to help the VG play nice with everything else. I'm getting minimal souring with some rather aged undertones (Steeping) of most juices without the week long wait. Nothing major yet on this one but I will say the ability to process up to 4000ml batches is nice, not necessary but nice.

Vortex Mixer- Haven't used one but had a friend use one, I'm sold really afterwards. The liquid does not separate as there is a whirlpool effect that happens. If it is heated prior to even better but without seemed to work well enough. I saw the color stabilize out and the mixture seemed to be as good if not better then the magnetic mixer when done for the same amount of time.
I verified that it is mixing and not separating as I used straight food coloring in a disposable 50/50 no nic batch test and it mixed in with uniform results (the coloring sunk to the bottom and dispersed evenly without issue).
Viscosity seems not to effect the liquid mixing at all, the spin up time for the vortex to get started is longer though (higher VG)


I'm curious if anyone has tried anything different then I have here, I'm more then happy to grab some input or stories you may have had on the road to a perfect suspension mixture.

 

[RobertNC]

What kind of flavorings are you using that you see two layers? Typically people use flavors already in PG, VG, or PGA. You should not see separate layers with these. Vaping oil based flavors e,g, essential oils, is not generally recommended. I consider very concentrated TA solutions to be suspensions or possibly unstable to semi-stable emulsions depending on how much TA is used but almost everything else is usually a solution. I've never needed anything but a good shake to get a uniform mixture.

 

[padaman]

How much time did you mix it up in the vortex mixer? And would you have the model of the mixer by any chance.

I've found the PROMIXX protein shake vortex mixer for approximatly 35$ US, but habve no idea if it would work. ONly has a 600ML capacity though, really liked you 4000ml solution as I plan to make a batch of 100-200 bottles of a magic potion

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

How much time did you mix it up in the vortex mixer? And would you have the model of the mixer by any chance.

I've found the PROMIXX protein shake vortex mixer for approximatly 35$ US, but habve no idea if it would work. ONly has a 600ML capacity though, really liked you 4000ml solution as I plan to make a batch of 100-200 bottles of a magic potion

The mix time for the vortex mixer was 5 min, the reason why it works so well is the following video (no I didn't buy this one or can afford to own this one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n0_0R8HUZ0
Notice that's a capped bottle, no stir bar in it..the beauty of a mixer like this.

I used a Vortex Genie 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbogxCyTq0
The beakers had a cover over them though it was never turned up high enough to spin out the liquid, it could though with ease.
I ordered mine off ebay, Vortex Genie 2 560 models go for around 70'ish dollars but given they are scientific equipment will last near a lifetime if maintained. You can mix, cap and put your bottles on the plate (make sure it has a plate) and shake them up a bit...I suspect what I did was overkill but it worked well when I was playing with it at a friends house.

the Magnetic mixer is another option if you batch mix, I use this a lot to do bases without issue 1. Its clean and reliable, and fast as well as I think mine caps out at 2000 rpm or so.

Let me know if I can provide any additional information.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

What kind of flavorings are you using that you see two layers? Typically people use flavors already in PG, VG, or PGA. You should not see separate layers with these. Vaping oil based flavors e,g, essential oils, is not generally recommended. I consider very concentrated TA solutions to be suspensions or possibly unstable to semi-stable emulsions depending on how much TA is used but almost everything else is usually a solution. I've never needed anything but a good shake to get a uniform mixture.

I believe it was an LA flavoring, I've since gotten rid of it suspecting that it was an Oil and not PG/VG or water soluble. Either way anything that separates is bad mojo in my book and really I shouldn't be playing with it in the first place.

Since you mentioned PGA, I've got a friend that may be sensitive to PG, he has requested that I do liquids for him but since I'm familiar with PG and VG I'm looking for a suitable substitute that will agree with him and is vape safe. I've tried heavy VG and thus far anything over 20 PG he seems to react. Have you got any solutions that I could try, I'm open to pretty much anything at this point to attempt to help him out.

 

[RobertNC]

I think Natures Flavors are generally PG free. They state they use water, VG, and PGA, but the handful I have tried appear to be mostly PGA. They have a pretty good range of fruits, nuts, and spices. If your friend is looking tobacco flavors, not sure, but if he can tolerate some PG you have a little wiggle room if you can use all non-PG adjuncts. Absolutes are another option but they come and go and are not generally FDA approved so I would expect them to be unavailable in the future.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

I think Natures Flavors are generally PG free. They state they use water, VG, and PGA, but the handful I have tried appear to be mostly PGA. They have a pretty good range of fruits, nuts, and spices. If your friend is looking tobacco flavors, not sure, but if he can tolerate some PG you have a little wiggle room if you can use all non-PG adjuncts. Absolutes are another option but they come and go and are not generally FDA approved so I would expect them to be unavailable in the future.

I will note that in my book, I may have to have a section all to his own E-Juices.
What kind of base is there available that would work. I know that PG and VG are typical but is there anything else that could be used in substitute, would PGA work as a base on its own or maybe even substituted for PG.
Still learning and it sometimes feels like I'm fishing without any bait on my hook at times, any information is appreciated and thank you for the reply. Hoping to learn a lot more as the time comes.

 

[doctordun]

I'm mixing about 100ml per month in a single batch.
Would mixing by some other method than shaking it by hand aid in the flavor or steeping process?
If so, how? I am willing to invest, is the reward is there.

 

[Roydub]

I'm mixing about 100ml per month in a single batch.
Would mixing by some other method than shaking it by hand aid in the flavor or steeping process?
If so, how? I am willing to invest, is the reward is there.

I am also wondering the same thing... though I am mixing larger batches so have seriously been looking at investing in a magnetic mixer... Though the vortex looks very nice, I didnt think they came in an affordable price range lol

I have been looking at something like this MS 300 Digital Hot Plate Magnetic Stirrer Mixer Fast Shipping | eBay I like the option to have heat

 

[zoiDman]

...

I have been looking at something like this MS 300 Digital Hot Plate Magnetic Stirrer Mixer Fast Shipping | eBay I like the option to have heat

I like this one.

Brand New 2000ml Digital Thermostat Hotplate Hot Plate Magnetic Stirrer 110V | eBay

Kinda has that Retro, Mad Scientist look to it.

LOL

 

[zoiDman]

I know this is a repost of a repost of a repost and likely this dead horse has been beaten before.

I'm back in to DIY liquids, I've recently been employing several methods so I'll post what I've found.

Dryer- Great idea, better hope your liquid is capped well, I'm not fully sure though that the melting point of the plastics isn't reached even on the low setting. The bottle was, gummy at best tacky at the worse part of it all. The cap came off one mixture and I smelled of Watermelon strawberry for a week (Though got asked what kind of dryer sheets I use).

Blender- Something about spinning a bottle at 10k on up RPM sounded like a really, really bad idea. The dremel didn't fair well either as both times the bottles critically failed or worse, only loss here was 50/50 mix without nic as I was afraid it would happen (and it did).

Cap on/off- Steeping works wonderfully like this, mixing not so much. The bottles re separated after shake mixing for a moment, I guess it tasted alright but still kind of leery about the layered e-liquid, tossed samples shortly after.

Hot water bath-Nope, just no, no, just no. Though a great idea but the issue here is it made a sweet-tart juice turn in to sour pucker vape (I've never been able to reproduce this any other way). It was great if you liked the sour lemon heads candy as a kid, I vaped it all to the last drop myself but yah, major chemical alterations happened.

Sonic Mixer- Didn't seem to do much, It mixed it but just not a lot more then a few shakes and go did. I would guess on some sort of molecular level it mixed it but no noticeable difference.

Magnetic Mixer w/Hot plate- This seems to do the best, I can see how the suspension of the liquid changes and the uniformity of the mixture is almost perfect. The hot plate is set to 50 Celsius only to help the VG play nice with everything else. I'm getting minimal souring with some rather aged undertones (Steeping) of most juices without the week long wait. Nothing major yet on this one but I will say the ability to process up to 4000ml batches is nice, not necessary but nice.

Vortex Mixer- Haven't used one but had a friend use one, I'm sold really afterwards. The liquid does not separate as there is a whirlpool effect that happens. If it is heated prior to even better but without seemed to work well enough. I saw the color stabilize out and the mixture seemed to be as good if not better then the magnetic mixer when done for the same amount of time.
I verified that it is mixing and not separating as I used straight food coloring in a disposable 50/50 no nic batch test and it mixed in with uniform results (the coloring sunk to the bottom and dispersed evenly without issue).
Viscosity seems not to effect the liquid mixing at all, the spin up time for the vortex to get started is longer though (higher VG)


I'm curious if anyone has tried anything different then I have here, I'm more then happy to grab some input or stories you may have had on the road to a perfect suspension mixture.

I'm surprised to see no Rock Tumbler on your List.

 

[Roydub]

I like this one.

Brand New 2000ml Digital Thermostat Hotplate Hot Plate Magnetic Stirrer 110V | eBay

Kinda has that Retro, Mad Scientist look to it.

LOL

lol it sure does... just add lab coat and over sized goggles

 

[RobertNC]

I will note that in my book, I may have to have a section all to his own E-Juices.
What kind of base is there available that would work. I know that PG and VG are typical but is there anything else that could be used in substitute, would PGA work as a base on its own or maybe even substituted for PG.
Still learning and it sometimes feels like I'm fishing without any bait on my hook at times, any information is appreciated and thank you for the reply. Hoping to learn a lot more as the time comes.

PGA as a base is going to be really harsh and the taste of alcohol will overpower everything else.

Some have suggest using PEG 400. This is poly(ethylene glycol) with an average molecular weight of 400. All kinds of PEGs are available but much above 400 and they will become either too viscous or solids.


Don't let the "ethylene glycol" scare you off from trying PEG, it is widely used in all kinds of things, foods, pharmaceuticals, etc. But DO make sure you get a high quality grade that is certified to be free or within accepted limits of ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol and marketed for oral consumption. I've never used it in this application because I have no problem with PG but I have been meaning to get some and see how it compares.

Supplier: PEG 400| Food Grade Polyethylene Glycol-400 | Buy E-Liquid E-Cig


Cost is ~ 3 times the cost of VG.

The food grade is FDA "recognized" eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations.


Applicability of FDA regulatory text is hopelessly ambiguous, but it is worth noting that the only clear thing about use of PEGs is that 0% is allowed in milk, but for various other orally consumed products FDA allows up to 0.2% ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol to be present in PEG 200-9500, if I recall that is far higher than the levels they found in vaping cartridges and made such a public fuss over. EG and DEG levels in PEG 9500 should be close to nonexistent. In PEG 400 it is going to be a consideration, but personally I would not hesitate to use PEG 400 that is made by Dow and marketed under the Carbowax Sentry FCC brand line.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

Yah, I didn't have rock tumbler on hand to test that... besides I've got a load of rough gems around here that could use some time in a rock tumbler.

Magnetic mixer is worth the investment, I should video that one day when I mix my base as how fast it really does mix stuff up. The vortex mixer I use for various other mixtures, both work very well in truth.

I'm still playing around with the advantages but to be able to finitely control you temperature may open up whole new worlds of steeping and custom tailoring flavors as just in baking you can really start to play in the kitchen per say. Just a thought on this one but it seems to be working well

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

PGA as a base is going to be really harsh and the taste of alcohol will overpower everything else.

Some have suggest using PEG 400. This is poly(ethylene glycol) with an average molecular weight of 400. All kinds of PEGs are available but much above 400 and they will become either too viscous or solids.


Don't let the "ethylene glycol" scare you off from trying PEG, it is widely used in all kinds of things, foods, pharmaceuticals, etc. But DO make sure you get a high quality grade that is certified to be free or within accepted limits of ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol and marketed for oral consumption. I've never used it in this application because I have no problem with PG but I have been meaning to get some and see how it compares.

Supplier: PEG 400| Food Grade Polyethylene Glycol-400 | Buy E-Liquid E-Cig


Cost is ~ 3 times the cost of VG.

The food grade is FDA "recognized" eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations.


Applicability of FDA regulatory text is hopelessly ambiguous, but it is worth noting that the only clear thing about use of PEGs is that 0% is allowed in milk, but for various other orally consumed products FDA allows up to 0.2% ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol to be present in PEG 200-9500, if I recall that is far higher than the levels they found in vaping cartridges and made such a public fuss over. EG and DEG levels in PEG 9500 should be close to nonexistent. In PEG 400 it is going to be a consideration, but personally I would not hesitate to use PEG 400 that is made by Dow and marketed under the Carbowax Sentry FCC brand line.

Thank you for this information, I'll have to get it to him and see if he is willing to help with the cost variation, its good to know that there is an alternate out there in truth.

 

[dead not sleeping]

I use a magmixer I made a while back out of spare computer parts. Cost me around 6 bucks. Lots of youtube vids on how to make one on the cheap. I tried the crockpot, UC, etc, and the best by far is the magmixer. I use no heat, and just spin it on slow overnight, then put it in the bottle. Since I mix mainly fruits, it only takes a couple of days to sit and it comes out perfect every time. You can see just how well it works by observing how well it mixes the heavier vg into the pg, it takes only seconds to combine, by far the best e-mixer out there imo. They are coming down in price, under a c-note will bring a nice variable speed unit to your doorstep.

edit: and by far the best quality of a magmixer is .... quiet as a mouse.

I've never used or even seen a vortex mixer, but it looks like a shake table. I do have an old vibrating Joe Namath Football game .... the noise drove my mom nuts.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

I use a magmixer I made a while back out of spare computer parts. Cost me around 6 bucks. Lots of youtube vids on how to make one on the cheap. I tried the crockpot, UC, etc, and the best by far is the magmixer. I use no heat, and just spin it on slow overnight, then put it in the bottle. Since I mix mainly fruits, it only takes a couple of days to sit and it comes out perfect every time. You can see just how well it works by observing how well it mixes the heavier vg into the pg, it takes only seconds to combine, by far the best e-mixer out there imo. They are coming down in price, under a c-note will bring a nice variable speed unit to your doorstep.

edit: and by far the best quality of a magmixer is .... quiet as a mouse.

I've never used or even seen a vortex mixer, but it looks like a shake table. I do have an old vibrating Joe Namath Football game .... the noise drove my mom nuts.

View attachment 404019

Nicely done, I love to re-purpose gear when available, do you have a link or a few that you could post on the DIY project to build.

I agree that a magnetic mixer for large (and small) batches is the way to go, for mixing small stuff in the bottle and test batches a vortex mixer works but on larger batches I'm getting separation at some levels. I suspect the density of the fluids has a lot to do with this. Either way I'm still on the testing board for this one so will keep you up to date on the project status. Currently I'm finding some good things coming back on both ends and just sorting out uses for both really.

Also while we are here, at what temperature do you hold your liquids at and for how long. Currently I'm pushing 50 Celsius ( 122 Fahrenheit) for 15 min works rather well though I suspect that the hot water pot coming in at 212 Fahrenheit (100 Celsius) is expediting the steeping process. Also at what temperature brings out what flavors would be another good thing to investigate, maybe it is possible to get a few extra miles out of those undertones that are often missed.

I found a temperature chart for the dryer as well, low heat is 125 degrees Fahrenheit if that helps anyone with fine tuning this process, I figure why not dive right in to the chemistry of it all and maybe make something magical happen in the process.

I work in Celsius currently as most of my equipment is lab equipment and is geared towards that measurement scale, but conversion is simple as a google search so no worries there .

 

[dead not sleeping]

Nicely done, I love to re-purpose gear when available, ... <clip> ... Also while we are here, at what temperature do you hold your liquids at and for how long. Currently I'm pushing 50 Celsius ( 122 Fahrenheit) for 15 min works rather well though I suspect that the hot water pot coming in at 212 Fahrenheit (100 Celsius) is expediting the steeping process. Also at what temperature brings out what flavors would be another good thing to investigate, maybe it is possible to get a few extra miles out of those undertones that are often missed.

I don't use any heat. I spin it contstantly overnight, for at least 8 hours. It does make a diff imo.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

I don't use any heat. I spin it contstantly overnight, for at least 8 hours. It does make a diff imo.

Nice, but how does it change it...does it bring the undertones out, does it make the flavors richer or add depth. I'm just asking because I know that with heat what it does and would like to compare results if possible.

Maybe on to something here, never know

 

[whiteweazel21]

Nice, but how does it change it...does it bring the undertones out, does it make the flavors richer or add depth. I'm just asking because I know that with heat what it does and would like to compare results if possible.

Maybe on to something here, never know

I'm new, but I read in numerous articles that steeping actually occurs from oxygen mixing with the solution. Usually those posts mention steeping has nothing to do with heat, maybe the heat helps to mix the juice to a more uniform viscosity when shaken after heating thus tasting better. The magnetic mixer is like a vortex, pulling in oxygen and homogenizing the mixture. According to those posts a magnetic mixer is a true speed steeper versus heating methods (since it's flooding the solution with oxygen). Ultrasonic provides no benefit either according to these articles.

I'm just about to place an order myself and step into the DIY realm. I will be picking up a magnetic mixer off amazon, found a pretty cute one lol.