FDA Comments by Bill Godshall and Smokefree Pennsylvania urge FDA to reject Deeming Regulation, correct fear mongering claims about e-cigs

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Cyatis

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An extremely awesome effort on your part. Likes and thanks do not cover the work you put into this. Though like many have said as will I, thank you. It is reassuring that there are people out there that actually do care about making the world a better place to live in.

I find your historical timelines to be very educational. It is very likely to be one of the best articles they could find on the subject, and its a shame they couldn't take 10 minutes to even acknowledge that. Hopefully though, in time, the truth will eventually be held in higher regard than it seems to be at present. People can then go back to focusing on more important things, like how to live happier, healthier lives.

Once again, thank you for time and effort.
 

Oliver

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Absolutely phenomenal, Bill - sometimes I don't know where you find the inner resources for it all.

And there we have it - Bill has more-or-less laid out the entire history of the various machinations against vaping for all to see.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if a good, investigative reporter were to spend some time looking into all of this?
 

wv2win

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Absolutely phenomenal, Bill - sometimes I don't know where you find the inner resources for it all.

And there we have it - Bill has more-or-less laid out the entire history of the various machinations against vaping for all to see.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if a good, investigative reporter were to spend some time looking into all of this?

He's not exactly an investigative reporter anymore, but what if all of us sent it to John Stossel at Fox News? He was one of the earliest (2011) proponents of vaping. If many of us send him the comments in relation to the current Deeming Regulations combined with his past comments, he may do another show on this topic. His email (from his Fox News site) is: john.stossel@foxnews.com.

I think we will need Bill's letter to the FDA in PDF format to make it easier to forward, however. We could also include CASAA's letter to the FDA as well as our own submissions to the FDA.
 

Jman8

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Bravo Bill on having most everyone here see, yet again, your commentary as beyond all forms of criticism and only worthy of praise.

Quoting my own self because I'm thinking the people that liked my post didn't understand what I stated.

So, I'll put it another, more direct way.

I find it very hard to understand why Bill's comments are beyond all forms of criticism and are only worthy of praise.

(Am glad to offer up fair criticisms for those who have the open mind to possibly look at the comments in that way)
 

bigdancehawk

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It blows my mind how comprehensive and detailed this is. It assembles and presents a massive amount of available information. I've read all of it, and I was hard pressed to find any undocumented statements.

Kudos to you, Bill. I'm grateful for all the good work you do to prolong lives.
 

bigdancehawk

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I have just one suggestion: you may wish to revise this statement: "To date, there is no evidence that e-cigarette usage has harmed anyone, which is logical since the products emit a tiny amount of vaporized nicotine (similar to nicotine inhalers that are marketed as smoking cessation aids) and water vapor." (emphasis added)
 

doc julio

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I have just one suggestion: you may wish to revise this statement: "To date, there is no evidence that e-cigarette usage has harmed anyone, which is logical since the products emit a tiny amount of vaporized nicotine (similar to nicotine inhalers that are marketed as smoking cessation aids) and water vapor." (emphasis added)

Yes indeed. Not much water in most ejuices. I am guessing its mostly PG and VG vapour......
 

dragonpuff

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I finally succeeded in reading through the whole thing, and it is superb! :thumb: Fantastic job Bill!

I appreciate the time you put into drawing up such a richly detailed and complex history of the movement against harm reduction. This is ammo we will need for a long time to come!

Thank you so much Bill! :thumbs:
 

bigdancehawk

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Quoting my own self because I'm thinking the people that liked my post didn't understand what I stated.

So, I'll put it another, more direct way.

I find it very hard to understand why Bill's comments are beyond all forms of criticism and are only worthy of praise.

(Am glad to offer up fair criticisms for those who have the open mind to possibly look at the comments in that way)

Why don't you just do it? Surely you're not suggesting that that we are closed-minded?
 

Jman8

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I think if criticism comes from just one person, it will be easily dismissed. I'm actually more amazed that I am only one that would venture into that territory. I don't get the free pass that Bill gets, and it strikes me as completely free. As in nothing that is said here can be looked at critically, but only with glowing praise and desire to publicly kiss the ring Bill wears.

Another thing is if I offer the multitude of criticism that I think is there, then my assessment that around 80% of what is being said is praiseworthy could be lost.

But in the interest of not being shy with my offer for fair criticism, I will state 2 items. One (the easy one) is length. I know of no one else that could get by posting that much and not get criticized for length. Secondly is the obvious bias against BT/smoking and not realizing how much that plays directly into validity/criticisms of vaping.

Like in this post from Part 1:

According to the US Surgeon General, daily cigarette smoking causes 480,000 deaths annually in the US. In sharp contrast, the scientific and empirical evidence indicate that cigar smoking causes no more than several hundred deaths annually, smokeless tobacco causes no more than several dozen deaths annually, pipe smoking causes no more than several deaths annually, there’s no evidence that e-cigs or dissolvables have ever caused any disease or death.

So, if US Surgeon General comes out harshly against eCigs (or any of the many organizations that do), then their credibility is to be questioned. But, when they speak harshly against smoking, then let's cite that data cause surely it will help us to be in bed with them on this point. I ask Bill or anyone where the evidence is that smoking causes death? And readily acknowledge that how I see things (both philosophically and scientifically) is why you will not find evidence of eCigs causing disease or death. Yet, I'm very confident that the same people that brought you "smoking causes death" will one day, relatively soon sell the idea of 'ecig causes death' and there will be many buyers of that. Especially if (so called) vaping enthusiasts are so ready to peddle the 480,000 deaths from smoking meme.
 

Bill Godshall

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If anyone wants the Word file with my comments to the FDA (that includes full weblinks to all referenced documents), please send me an e-mail requesting it to billgodshall@verizon.net

Thanks for all the kudos. During the past two weeks, I scrolled through all of my weekly THR Updates since 2009, and cut-pasted, edited and reorganized about a thousand excerpts (including those on nearly every published study on e-cigs) that I thought would help to keep all e-cig products legal in this country (after FDA issues a Final Rule for the Deeming Regulation).

Please note that Katherine Devlin at ECITA has posted all of my Tobacco Harm Reduction Updates since 2010 at
Bill Godshall, SmokeFree Pennsylvania to
Bill Godshall, SmokeFree Pennsylvania

Also, Roly has posted the recent THR Updates at
Bill Godshall - Tobacco Harm Reduction Updates


I have just one suggestion: you may wish to revise this statement: "To date, there is no evidence that e-cigarette usage has harmed anyone, which is logical since the products emit a tiny amount of vaporized nicotine (similar to nicotine inhalers that are marketed as smoking cessation aids) and water vapor." (emphasis added)

As I recall, that was an excerpt from testimony I submitted to the FDA back in 2010 or 2011 (before an exploding mod/battery injured someone). But which of the 14 parts of my comments is that excerpt from (so I can check)? Regardless, it's too late to revise anything in the comments, as that deadline has passed.

I wrote (in my comments to FDA, which was also contained in my presentation on the FDA deeming regulation at the 2014 Food and Drug Law Institute's annual conference in DC on April 23 the day before FDA proposed the Deeming Regulation)

According to the US Surgeon General, daily cigarette smoking causes 480,000 deaths annually in the US. In sharp contrast, the scientific and empirical evidence indicate that cigar smoking causes no more than several hundred deaths annually, smokeless tobacco causes no more than several dozen deaths annually, pipe smoking causes no more than several deaths annually, there’s no evidence that e-cigs or dissolvables have ever caused any disease or death.


Jman wrote:

I know of no one else that could get by posting that much and not get criticized for length. Secondly is the obvious bias against BT/smoking and not realizing how much that plays directly into validity/criticisms of vaping.

Don't know what length of a sentence has do with anything. Besides, it came from a speech I gave to dozens of lawyers, who write half page sentences.

There was no "bias against BT/smoking" in that excerpt. Rather, it was simply pointing out the estimated number of deaths attributable (based upon scientific evidence) to the use of different tobacco/nicotine products.

Although I think SG Report's estimated deaths caused by secondhand smoke (which were the same as previously estimated by CDC) are too high (as secondhand smoke exposure has dramatically declined in the US the past 2 decades), and although I think the recent SG Report's estimates of deaths due to daily cigarette smoking are too high (as they didn't consider the huge decline in cigarette consumption the past decade), its pretty clear that daily cigarette smoking is still killing at least 350,000 Americans annually.

In sharp comparison, there's no evidence e-cigs have caused any deaths.

Jman wrote

I ask Bill or anyone where the evidence is that smoking causes death?

There have been more than 50,000 published studies (and I've read many of them during the past 35 years).

Regardless, Jman's (and anyone else's) denial of the scientific evidence that cigarette smoking causes diseases and deaths is not going to win over anyone (to endorse vaping) who understands or supports science, public health or common sense. In fact, the most effective way to keep e-cigs legal to make, market and use is by repeatedly pointing out the comparative risks and benefits of cigarettes versus e-cigs.
 
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bigdancehawk

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Bill, I don't know where "water vapor" appears in your comment. I just copied it and pasted it without recording where it was. But, as you have the entire comment in MSWord format, you can just do a word search for "water" (click the "edit" menu and then click "find") and you'll find it quickly.
 

Kent C

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Bill, I don't know where "water vapor" appears in your comment. I just copied it and pasted it without recording where it was. But, as you have the entire comment in MSWord format, you can just do a word search for "water" (click the "edit" menu and then click "find") and you'll find it quickly.

Part 6. His wording was exactly as yours was - which made me wonder what the 'edit' would be. The only thing is you had water vapor bolded and he didn't.

At the paragraph that starts "Although electronic cigarettes ...." right before a series of links....
 
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bigdancehawk

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Part 6. His wording was exactly as yours was - which made me wonder what the 'edit' would be. The only thing is you had water vapor bolded and he didn't.

At the paragraph that starts "Although electronic cigarettes ...." right before a series of links....

I bolded it to highlight what seemed inaccurate.

I imagine you're not familiar with MSWord. The "edit" menu isn't just for editing. One of the options on the "edit" menu is simply to "find" a particular word in a document wherever it appears.
 

dragonpuff

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I think if criticism comes from just one person, it will be easily dismissed. I'm actually more amazed that I am only one that would venture into that territory. I don't get the free pass that Bill gets, and it strikes me as completely free. As in nothing that is said here can be looked at critically, but only with glowing praise and desire to publicly kiss the ring Bill wears.

Another thing is if I offer the multitude of criticism that I think is there, then my assessment that around 80% of what is being said is praiseworthy could be lost.

I have to take issue with you on this one. Our esteem in Bill Godshall was not freely given, it was earned. He has decades of experience in advocating for harm reduction and has been very helpful to our community over the years. There is a rather large difference between trusting someone based on your experience with them and "kissing the ring he wears," as you so glibly put it.

I feel that Bill addressed your criticisms quite well and for the most part I feel no need to add to that. I will, however, address one point:

One (the easy one) is length. I know of no one else that could get by posting that much and not get criticized for length.

I want to mention here that his comment as posted here was actually multiple comments as submitted to the FDA. Hence the word "comments" in the title.
 
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