Can You Overcharge A Battery?

[hyperdeficit]

I got my DSE 901 and I have never had a battery die while using it except today and I charged it all night last night.

This got me thinking. Can you overcharge a battery where it will not work anymore. The one from today is fine and charging but i am concerned that my overnight charge method is bad for my batteries

 

[Shackattack]

From my understanding you can not "overcharge" the battery. When the charger turns green it stops sending current to the battery. I have left batteries on chargers for days, or even weeks, and they are fine. However your first intial charge should be 8-12 hours so that the battery becomes fully charged so that the battery can accept a 'full charge.' This is the case for any rechargeable battery. Im no electrical engineer, so I don't claim to be an expert, just my 2 cents....

 

[puff-puff-pass]

From my understanding you can not "overcharge" the battery. When the charger turns green it stops sending current to the battery. I have left batteries on chargers for days, or even weeks, and they are fine. However your first intial charge should be 8-12 hours so that the battery becomes fully charged so that the battery can accept a 'full charge.' This is the case for any rechargeable battery. Im no electrical engineer, so I don't claim to be an expert, just my 2 cents....

hehehe...you endedup contradicting yourself. You are correct when you say that once the light turns green it stops charging the battery, but then you say to leave it on for 8 - 12 hours. That length of time....well...I would think the light has been green for almost 5 hours (at the least) and the charge has stopped from being applied to the battey.
So if there is anyone who can validate the need for an 8 hour initial charge time, please post your comments and the model of PV that it would apply to.

 

[Glock]

So out of the box would you first use it and once depleted fully (i.e. flashing LED) put it on an 8-hour charge or would you take it straight from the box to the charger for eight hours...

I use it first as it seems a lot of times they come with a near full or full charge and the light turns green right away. So I am now using it first, depleting and then sticking in on an 8-hour charge regardless of light.

I dunno if this is a good idea or if I should just stick it straight on the charger even though the light goes green in like 15 or so minutes indicating it was charged. When I drain it first I get a good few hours before the light turns green and then leave it for at least 8-hours on the "first charge cycle".

 

[Krakkan]

You should open BOX then stick battery straight on charger for full 8hr charge and based on specific battery instructions some you have to smoke for another hour then charge again for another hour for full functionality 510's for example. -- Most kits come with manual that details what should be done for best battery life.

 

[Glock]

hehehe...you endedup contradicting yourself. You are correct when you say that once the light turns green it stops charging the battery, but then you say to leave it on for 8 - 12 hours. That length of time....well...I would think the light has been green for almost 5 hours (at the least) and the charge has stopped from being applied to the battey.
So if there is anyone who can validate the need for an 8 hour initial charge time, please post your comments and the model of PV that it would apply to.

I have wondered the same with all batteries (e.g. cell phones, etc.). My only thought is that it is still on sort of a trickle charge. The new USB charger I have starts red then flashes red/blue fast and near the 3 or 4 hour marks slows to every 5 seconds then finally goes to a solid blue, but not sure if it ever stops flicking to red every 10 or 20 seconds or so???

My guess is it is sending a quick current and the turning back off during this 8-hours, but I am not the one to consult...

 

[Sun Vaporer]

That is one good reason to use Protected Batteries for Modders--they do not allow any trickle from the charge once they have met their full capacity--whether the e-cig batteries we buy are in fact Protected is anybodys guess--I have never have had the opportunity to read that in any of the manuals---hence I have a 5 hour timer set to my charger to kill the power once it reaches the 5 hour mark---go saftey feature as well----Sun

 

[puff-puff-pass]

I have wondered the same with all batteries (e.g. cell phones, etc.). My only thought is that it is still on sort of a trickle charge. The new USB charger I have starts red then flashes red/blue fast and near the 3 or 4 hour marks slows to every 5 seconds then finally goes to a solid blue, but not sure if it ever stops flicking to red every 10 or 20 seconds or so???

My guess is it is sending a quick current and the turning back off during this 8-hours, but I am not the one to consult...

I wouldnt worry about the occasional flash...It's a design of the charger to send a "pulse" to the battery to see if it needs a charge. Most charges do that, but without the flash of the indicator.

Alot of people are still so accustome to the old Ni-Cad batteries and the issues of longer-than-necessary charging damage. It just doesnt happen with Li+ batteries. I have been using a Li+ battery powered cell phone for 3 years...it has sat on my charger for weeks at a time...even sat fully discharged for almost a year. I get as much talk time now as I did when it was new.

 

[puff-puff-pass]

-- Most kits come with manual that details what should be done for best battery life.

Now is that a manual from tha manufacturer? Or just from a retailer that saw a post somewhere and decided to add that to their own "users manual"? Just curious

I was surprised when my first kit arrived. I thought the manual would be something from the manufacturer (similar to buying a Sony TV), but was shocked that it was just a simple 1 page document that the retailer made.

Does anyone have a MANUFACTURERS document that states it should have an initial 8 hour charge?

 

[smoking7]

One simple answer to the battery question- yes. LiPo batteries can without a doubt be overcharged. The effects are usually obvious, such as excessive heat and even fire. If the battery isn't performing properly, it could very easily be that it was over extended; it dipped way below the minimum current and has gone into an electrical "coma". If this is the case, the battery could be ruined.

 

[vaporize me]

I thought that I had read somewhere that if a protected battery is stacked with another protected battery it looses its protection. Does anybody know if this is true?

There are so many claims on batteries and with its chargers that it is totally confusing.

Some batteries claim to have dedicated chargers that cannot be used with any other battery. Is this true? I understand that the voltage of batteries should be used in chargers that are made for that voltage but I've also read that a battery and charger combination with a particular mah should not be used to charge a battery with a different mah. Is this true?

 

[RickB]

I've read and been told by a couple of people to initially charge your batteries for at least 8 hours also. I say it's phooy. These are not nickle metal based chemistry. These are lithium based. They do not have the old memory issues of older tech. They will most likely be shipped from the factory at a storage charge which is usually 2/3 the capacity or so. Unlike Nicad/NimH chargers that are designed to trickle charge the batteries to reach max capacity, there is no need with lithium batteries. With a single cel once they reach 4.2v they are charged. If your charger is operating the way that is designed, once the green light comes on it's done charging. It is not sending any more voltage to the battery. Leaving your battery on the charger is doing nothing. If you want to "condition" your batteries, which I still don't quite think is necessary with li+ batteries, then when you first open them charge them until the green light comes on to charge to full capacity, use them for 5-10 puffs or so then put it back on the charger until the light turns green again. Then you should be good to go.






*** This is just one guys opinion from using large capacity lithium batteries in and entirely different application, I am not an expert nor do I play one on t.v. I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night nor do I plan to. Your mileage may vary. Use as directed. ***

 

[RickB]

Yes it is true that some chargers are dedicated. Sort of. The charges are designed to
charge at say 1C or 1 times the capacity of the battery. If you have a 150mah battery,
the charger will probably charge at 150mah or less. You have another battery that is 300mah and it's charger is set to charge at 300mah or less. If you were to take battery A and attempted to charge it with charger B the battery would more than likely overheat quickly and possibly vent or even flame up. You could theoretically charge battery B with charger A being that charger A is only charging at half the capacity of B.
The only issue with that is it would take about twice as long to charge the battery as apposed to using it's dedicated charger.

 

[Glock]

You should open BOX then stick battery straight on charger for full 8hr charge and based on specific battery instructions some you have to smoke for another hour then charge again for another hour for full functionality 510's for example. -- Most kits come with manual that details what should be done for best battery life.

Thank you sir. I still think there are many schools of thought and not sure what works best for e-cig battery, but it appears there should be no harm in using it straight out of the box. The instructions state something to the effect that the "first charge cycle" and/or once the LED starts flashing to use the charger... It does not say anything about charging "prior to use". Generally I think that the first couple of cycles should be complete cycels regardless of how you start the cycle (e.g. drain all the way down and charge all the way back up or visa-versa). As far as if you start the cycle by first using the battery I am still uncertain even after finding this on Battery University, but it would seem either method should be fine:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nickel-based (NiCd and NiMH)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lithium-ion (Li-ion)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lead-acid (Sealed or flooded)[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How should I prepare my new battery?

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nickel-based batteries come partially charged. Prime new battery by putting on a 14-16h charge.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Li-ion comes partially charged. You can use the battery right away and charge it when needed. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lead acid comes fully charged. For best result, apply a topping charge to assure full charge. [/FONT]

I have actually done a couple of batteries by first using and then doing a couple of complete charge cycles and I have at least one that I threw directly on the charger before even using (last night) based on your advice and will do a couple of complete charge cycles. Kind of hard to compare, but I'll try and see if I notice any difference in capacity between the two methods that might be obvious. I suspect it really doesn't matter and I will not notice anything obvious between the two methods of throwing it on the charger or using it first then throw it on the charger for a couple of full charge cycles (which I think is the important part). I am going to try to use two batteries that were charged using both methods more or less equally and see if one dies quicker and/or if in the long term one becomes useless quicker.

I think it is important to do a couple of complete charge cycles regardless of where you start the cycle

 

[Catanonia]

Read this link.

All explained here amongst other things how the batteries work.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...hink-i-know-why-batteries-dying-so-often.html

 

[Glock]

I wouldnt worry about the occasional flash...It's a design of the charger to send a "pulse" to the battery to see if it needs a charge. Most charges do that, but without the flash of the indicator.

Alot of people are still so accustome to the old Ni-Cad batteries and the issues of longer-than-necessary charging damage. It just doesnt happen with Li+ batteries. I have been using a Li+ battery powered cell phone for 3 years...it has sat on my charger for weeks at a time...even sat fully discharged for almost a year. I get as much talk time now as I did when it was new.

I think it is interesting how these new batteries and new battery chargers seem to work better and have more intelligence. The new USB charger coupled with the new battery will flash in different sequences solid red when fully depleted to fast flash (when slightly charged) to slower flash (when nearing full charge), slower yet again (when almost 100% charged), and maybe even slower yet again and finally to solid blue once fully charged.

The new batteries also have a dual colored LED that while blue, green, whatever, will flash it's warnings and/or low battery indication in orange. They are also a couple of mm shorter than the older ones (I believe there was extra room at the LED on the older batteries) which in turn makes the LED on the new battery much brighter than the older ones. I also read somewhere about Motorola processors in the new batteries?

I am liking these new batteries and "SLBxxx" 901's very much. Great vapor and great batteries so far... The NEW "SLBxxx" seems to be the best of the 901's to me and very good quality, overall when compared to other 901's.

 

[Glock]

Read this link.

All explained here amongst other things how the batteries work.

removed link because I don't have 15 posts??? See original post

Thank you for this link. Based on my last post and on my personal experience, I like the new batteires better???

They also still seem to have a pressure switch. Mine turn on with suction and only turn on when I expect them to??? I have a couple of the older batteries (i.e. 2mm longer and single color LED) and one died after only one charge cycle. Those 901's also do not vape as good as the "SLBxxx" ones I have with the new batteries.

Not sure if the old batteries are indeed old or just of different manufacturer. I think I will just stick with the suppliers that I know I get what works based on my personal experience, LOL!!!

 

[Letzin Hale]

LiIon batteries have a microprocessor that can handle a number of functions, including charging, cleaning and activating the vaporiser. They are programmed pre-manufacture and making changes to the programming (similar to remapping ECUs on cars or motorcycles) has to be done at that stage - it's also quite costly so it's vital to get it right. Cut-offs, performance peaks, charge length can all be fine tuned and that explains some of the differences with 401 type batteries, such as the EVO which paved the way for others to join the performance quest.
When full charge is reached the power is cut. There is absolutely no need for an initial 8,12,16 hour charge, as it has already been stated that was from 10 years ago and the olden days of nicad. Lithium can be a volatile substance though and a pallet of batteries on fire is a sight you would remember!

Remember, don't sit on your ecig!!

YouTube - Flames & smoke roll from older lithium ion battery pack
​

 

[cyberwolf]

You should open BOX then stick battery straight on charger for full 8hr charge and based on specific battery instructions some you have to smoke for another hour then charge again for another hour for full functionality 510's for example. -- Most kits come with manual that details what should be done for best battery life.

One wild-card here that may be actually confusing some people is what has been done to the batteries before you get them. My first batteries went green after about 5 minutes on the charger. I contacted the vendor and he told me that he fully charges all of the batteries before sending them out. So even though the manual says to charge them overnight, it was totally unecessary. I've experienced this with batteires from other vendors since then as well.

 

[Nicfits]

One thing to keep in mind when it comes to Lithium-Ion. Heat and age.
These batteries don't do well when subjected to heat. Don't leave them laying in your car. Store them in a cool place. Refrigerator is fine, but not the freezer. Store at 40% charge. These batteries as already stated, do not have any memory, but they do have built in protection cicuits. It is considered best not to completely run down you Li-Ions. This could result in shutting down the protection circuit, and the battery to not function or charge properly.
The life span of these batteries at optimal conditions is about two to three years, or the given amount of cycles. For this reason, others recommend not stockpiling Lithium-Ions. Always buy the freshest ones, and look for dates of manufacture.
It has also been stated that it is ok to do partial charges. I try to cycle my batteries before they go dead. I use twelve 510 batteries and have 4 chargers, I rotate them out every chance I get.
I am also starting to have concerns over heat issues coming off my 510 attys. These things do get warm, and some of that heat has to be radiating into the battery. Perhaps a better E-cig design would be to have the atty sitting a little further away from the Battery.
With the manual 510 batteries, since the normally open hole to the battery for auto switch activation is sealed off. Maybe these batteries would be better off mounted in a breathable metal tube. Holes in it as you will, to help vent and remove any heat that may build up inside.
Just a thought.