The movie was called the Insider and was about Jeffery Wigand Jeffrey Wigand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The movie is worth watching if you have never seen it. bnrk
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Just remember, these are the same corporations that added things like ammonia to tobacco they were selling. They turned nicotine into a freebase molecule in order to make it more addicting.
I don't want their chemists in my liquid. JMO.
I don't want their chemists in my liquid. JMO.
Here we go again .. it's all a conspiracy ..
On the "BT made it so we would become addicts" .. then how is it that a vast majority of folks switching to a PV stop the analogs at the same time .. ?? Because it's the nicotine we want .. as well, warning labels have been on packs for many years .. we knew the dangers .. what happened to free will .. ?? Did someone from BT force a cig on you and make you smoke it while wielding a rubber hose .. ?? And then make you keep smoking them .. ??
I hope BT does well with the e-cig .. and trust me, they are not going to somehow chemically make you any more of an addict than you are already .. not after shelling out billions over the years already ..
Be glad we may have major corporate players in this industry now ..
On the "BT made it so we would become addicts" .. then how is it that a vast majority of folks switching to a PV stop the analogs at the same time .. ?? Because it's the nicotine we want .. as well, warning labels have been on packs for many years .. we knew the dangers .. what happened to free will .. ?? Did someone from BT force a cig on you and make you smoke it while wielding a rubber hose .. ?? And then make you keep smoking them .. ??
I hope BT does well with the e-cig .. and trust me, they are not going to somehow chemically make you any more of an addict than you are already .. not after shelling out billions over the years already ..
Be glad we may have major corporate players in this industry now ..
No conspiracy with shadowy figures in black helicopters....and yes I was hooked on the idea of smoking from the first one I had. Not sure it would have made much difference in my case.
Whether they added it to make it crack nicotine intentionally, or for the other reasons they mentioned...
The Secret of Marlboro's Success: Freebase Nicotine | Center for Media and Democracy
Whether they added it to make it crack nicotine intentionally, or for the other reasons they mentioned...
The Secret of Marlboro's Success: Freebase Nicotine | Center for Media and Democracy
Uncle Willy, I swear on my kids that I do not try to disagree w you all the time. It just plays out that way. WTS, ammonia and the umpteen thousands other chemicals that refined the cig to be a perfect human brain necessity , took away free will. I'm only 36 and when I started smoking at 18 there were no labels on cigs. Not that that is a good excuse we still knew but knowing and having more power over your brain than the smoke are 2 diff things.
Not sure I could ever trust them, they certainly have never gone out of their way to make things less adictive and healthier before...
not to mention that they are much more likely to use the FDA to put the small guys out of business. you know, the ones that sell mods and liquid and all the good stuff. i would think that if Lorillard bought some positions in the FDA we would only be using pre-filled cartomizers and cheap batteries. thats how our system works....crony capitalism.
what we need to look at is how the cigar community runs their industry, thats a mom and pop show very much grass-rooted kind of affair and they are UNTOUCHABLE. just by sheer support would overcome almost any kind of big ban. thats how we should be since e cigs are very much similar.
what we need to look at is how the cigar community runs their industry, thats a mom and pop show very much grass-rooted kind of affair and they are UNTOUCHABLE. just by sheer support would overcome almost any kind of big ban. thats how we should be since e cigs are very much similar.
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Its too bad because just now, now that it may be too little too late, some unnamed vendors are wizening up and talking about some sort of collective effort. If they had done this a year or more ago by now they could of had a powerfull entity that would stand a chance of fighting back. But,IMO, like any other selfish business they waited until it is about to hit their back pocket to act.
Warning labels started being put on all packs in 1966 ..
I take all responsibility for the 40+ years I smoked .. I also take responsibility for the high fat foods I eat, etc ..
I liked smoking .. Did I know it was bad .. ?? Certainly .. Did I keep doing it .. ?? Certainly .. I've been on a PV now for probably 15 months .. and if it was 0 nic, I'd likely have gone back to smoking ..
Do I trust BT .. ?? Not really .. Do I trust any huge corporation to always do things in my best interest .. ?? No ..
What I do trust is when BT entered the PV market, they saw it as a money making growth business .. and they will put R&D into it and most likely continue to improve the product .. and since they don't want to end up shelling out billions all over again, the product will be as good as their money can make it ..
I see that as a win / win ..
Lastly, we should not be surprised at all that BT has entered the market ..
I take all responsibility for the 40+ years I smoked .. I also take responsibility for the high fat foods I eat, etc ..
I liked smoking .. Did I know it was bad .. ?? Certainly .. Did I keep doing it .. ?? Certainly .. I've been on a PV now for probably 15 months .. and if it was 0 nic, I'd likely have gone back to smoking ..
Do I trust BT .. ?? Not really .. Do I trust any huge corporation to always do things in my best interest .. ?? No ..
What I do trust is when BT entered the PV market, they saw it as a money making growth business .. and they will put R&D into it and most likely continue to improve the product .. and since they don't want to end up shelling out billions all over again, the product will be as good as their money can make it ..
I see that as a win / win ..
Lastly, we should not be surprised at all that BT has entered the market ..
This is exactly the point .. why did so many believe that it would just continue to be business as usual .. ?? I don't know how many times I have said that once the easy money dries up, these same people will simply move on to the next Sham Wow ..
Then my memory is wrong. Its been known to happen. I also take responsibility for my choices, but 5 years ago I went cold turkey for 8 months and the whole time I felt as if I lost an arm or something similar. My issue w BT coming in is the way I think its going to play out. I believe, like many others that they are going to force the market to ban everything except blu compatible cartridges. Bottled juice will prob still be there at a stupid price. I've heard it said therte will be a standard quantity established as a taxable point to work fgrom and due to the likely size of that quantity the price will increase 20 fold.
I suppose it's possible they may see the writing on the wall. With more people quitting and less people starting (at least in the modernized world), especially due to the insatiable govt trying to get their share at the same trough. Maybe they realize their days are numbered and figure they'd at least try to make some money on the way out.
But I realize that scenario is highly unlikely and pretty far fetched. These giant corporations with quartely reports bigger than some small countries didn't get that way by trying to help people stop giving them money. If they were to get involved in any "path to quitting", it would most likely be to throw in some sort of roadblocks.
I can see it now "It's much healthier for you! There's no reason to quit!". Or "Tired of trying to kick the habit only to fail miserably time and time again? Now you don't have to!".
But I realize that scenario is highly unlikely and pretty far fetched. These giant corporations with quartely reports bigger than some small countries didn't get that way by trying to help people stop giving them money. If they were to get involved in any "path to quitting", it would most likely be to throw in some sort of roadblocks.
I can see it now "It's much healthier for you! There's no reason to quit!". Or "Tired of trying to kick the habit only to fail miserably time and time again? Now you don't have to!".
Wille - are you thinking hardware, eliquid or both? If eliquid, do you think there is opportunity to improve eliquid by replacing some of the tobacco constituents now missing from most eliquids?
So when everybody is saying protect the little guy and boycott Blu. They are really standing up for a fantasy. Another $ hungry, taking advantage of the fast windfall. So there ya go, we have come together on this point. I take full credit for compromising and meeting you halfway>
BT will do everything they can to enhance and protect their market. I can see USP grade nicotine requiring a license to buy and the commercial stuff labelled as poison (not that any of use would DIY with it, anyway).
I don't see BT becoming the Walmart of the ecig business by lowering prices to drive the little guy out of the market, but I do see them lobbying for laws and regulations that take the profit out at lower volumes. They are good at controlling prices and manipulating the market.
I could also see BT enhancing the product to promote addiction. MAOI additives would assist there as well as whole tobacco extracts that satisfy the tobacco urge and allow an easier transition to ecigs. WTA is good for those who have trouble making the transition, but I don't need it, don't want it, and would be incensed if all the juice I bought contained whole tobacco additives.
I don't see BT becoming the Walmart of the ecig business by lowering prices to drive the little guy out of the market, but I do see them lobbying for laws and regulations that take the profit out at lower volumes. They are good at controlling prices and manipulating the market.
I could also see BT enhancing the product to promote addiction. MAOI additives would assist there as well as whole tobacco extracts that satisfy the tobacco urge and allow an easier transition to ecigs. WTA is good for those who have trouble making the transition, but I don't need it, don't want it, and would be incensed if all the juice I bought contained whole tobacco additives.
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If I were to speculate, I'd venture to guess that re-fillable carts made by BT would be made available by BT .. whether they go so far as to replace other TOBACCO constituents, maybe .. although some of that is already available ..
I think one of the primary benefits is consistency of product, both hardware as well as liquid ..
Liquid is a sore spot with me in the current market .. I actually do random test what I use and there just is no consistency .. and the margin for error is sometimes + / - 40% ..
So when everybody is saying protect the little guy and boycott Blu. They are really standing up for a fantasy. Another $ hungry, taking advantage of the fast windfall. So there ya go, we have come together on this point. I take full credit for compromising and meeting you halfway>
Can one stop Walmart .. ?? A tiny fraction of communities have .. but you don't want to be the guy selling lawnmowers next to a Walmart Super Store ..
Is a boycott of Blu going to be effective .. ?? How many of us on ECF use Blu now and by stopping would hurt sales .. ?? It's the existing smoker that's the target .. and they likely want a unit that looks like a traditional cig ..
On a side note .. has anyone considered that this scenario may actually help the smaller vendors .. ?? There will be those, like many of us, that will want to upgrade at some point ..
I smoked hard for 35 years, no smoking for a year now. In recent years I watched the tax always go up. Tax the addicts, that is always a winning proposition. I thought if cigs hit $4 a pack, I wouldn't be able afford it, and I would surely quit. It did, I still afforded it. I thought that if they hit $5 a pack, that would be it. Lather, rinse, repeat forever.
In recent years, with the whole world seemingly turning against smokers, I didn't see how BT could stay in business. I thought their glory days were over. I learned about how they are promoting cigs to youth in Indonesia and emerging nations, completely unfettered by laws. Kids can buy single cigarettes near their schools. Their image of the American Cowboy is not John Wayne, but the Marlboro Man.
Most of the tobacco in the world by far is grown in China, yet most of the BT companies at least started in the USA. Cigarettes are an extremely profitable product, the smoking of the world is not going away, it's just changing locations.
BT getting involved with Blu may or may not be good for us. It may just be an example of a legacy industry adapting to new markets. Hollywood used to scream that VCR's would kill the movie industry. Somebody thought up the rental concept, and VCRs became mainstream. The recording industry screamed that Napster would ruin the music business, but selling music online is a viable concept now. Big profitable legacy businesses scream at new products that shake their world, but the ones that adapt, survive.
BT being involved in vaping could be good, in that it gives the public greater perception. It could be bad if they regulate/tax the nic. Other aspects of vaping cannot really be regulated. There will always be batteries and food flavorings. Atomizers can be made of resistive wire. It's pretty easy to mix nic with PG/VG/flavorings and DIY your liquid. Growing tobacco, and extracting it safely yourself, not so much.
In recent years, with the whole world seemingly turning against smokers, I didn't see how BT could stay in business. I thought their glory days were over. I learned about how they are promoting cigs to youth in Indonesia and emerging nations, completely unfettered by laws. Kids can buy single cigarettes near their schools. Their image of the American Cowboy is not John Wayne, but the Marlboro Man.
Most of the tobacco in the world by far is grown in China, yet most of the BT companies at least started in the USA. Cigarettes are an extremely profitable product, the smoking of the world is not going away, it's just changing locations.
BT getting involved with Blu may or may not be good for us. It may just be an example of a legacy industry adapting to new markets. Hollywood used to scream that VCR's would kill the movie industry. Somebody thought up the rental concept, and VCRs became mainstream. The recording industry screamed that Napster would ruin the music business, but selling music online is a viable concept now. Big profitable legacy businesses scream at new products that shake their world, but the ones that adapt, survive.
BT being involved in vaping could be good, in that it gives the public greater perception. It could be bad if they regulate/tax the nic. Other aspects of vaping cannot really be regulated. There will always be batteries and food flavorings. Atomizers can be made of resistive wire. It's pretty easy to mix nic with PG/VG/flavorings and DIY your liquid. Growing tobacco, and extracting it safely yourself, not so much.
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