Anyone see last nights NBC News story on e-cigs?(video link)

[Ken_A]

critique.
we do NOT know that Nicotine is a highly addictive drug.. unless we know that Caffeine is.

but as far as effectiveness...

"and in other news.. Man bites.. DOG?"

it's going to take a lot more than this almost-fair report to get ecigs and PVs to a safer place in the public eye.

 

[kristin]

Such a move wouldn't survive an equal protection challenge in federal court. You cannot treat two tobacco product manufacturers differently without a compelling reason to do so, so banning flavored nicotine liquid while continuing to allow menthol cigarettes constitutes discrimination against the liquid manufacturers.

And yet, they did just that when they banned flavored cigarettes - knowing no one of consequence was going to challenge them in court. RJ Reynolds supported the flavor ban, in spite of the fact they were the makers of a line of flavored Camel cigarettes. Obviously, they knew the flavored cigarette market was inconsequential and wasn't going to have any impact on reducing smoking (youth or otherwise). It was a bonus that the ban included actual RJR competition - the clove cigarette import market. Doing this, they also negotiated that their most popular cigarette flavoring - menthol - would be exempt from the flavored cigarette ban.

When Providence, Rhode Island went after flavored tobacco and cigars last year, however, nearly ALL of the major tobacco companies sued and lost. The cigarette industry will continue to vehemently fight the menthol ban, but now whether or not they will prevail is in serious doubt after RI.

 

[EddardinWinter]

And the FDA brings up the children issue again. That really is the only thing that they keep doing to alarm parents. I started with menthol cigs, not because I liked them but just because that's what my mother smoked at the time.

Arggggggggg the FDA and ANTZ really get me angry and frustrated.

Its the same lie they have on their website. At least they are consistent...

 

[Mike36609]

I liked the segment overall, and that they showed something, however briefly, other than a standard cig-a-like. And, I would like to thank Dr. Lee (I think that was her name) for pointing out that nicotine is addictive, a firm grasp of the obvious, but in this case beside the point.

My only concern with this hobby/lifestyle is the trust that we place in the people that make the juice that we inhale. It has been mentioned here that we know what is in our e-liquid, but in reality we don't know, not really. We think we know. We know what we have been told by our vendors, but we don't know for sure. I am afraid, human nature being what it is, that it is only a matter of time before someone is harmed by something that was in their juice. It wouldn't even have to be an intentional case of adding/using harmful ingredients, accidents and mistakes happen. Or, it could happen as a means of boosting the bottom line by an unscrupulous vendor, domestic or foreign. No one ever thought a manufacturer would purposely put harmful/poisonous chemicals in baby formula, or pet food, but it happened. Even if you DIY you are still at risk, unless you are extracting your own nicotine, and making your own PG/VG base.

Our safety/well-being as vapers is dependent, at least to some extent if you are intellectually honest, on the integrity of each person in the liquid manufacturing/mixing/processing pipeline. I'm not scared, I don't dwell on this, it doesn't keep me awake at night, but knowing human nature as I do, I believe that it is only a matter of time before the chain of integrity breaks down. Maybe a little regulation, preferably something self-imposed on the industry by itself, might not be a bad thing.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Our safety/well-being as vapers is dependent, at least to some extent if you are intellectually honest, on the integrity of each person in the liquid manufacturing/mixing/processing pipeline. I'm not scared, I don't dwell on this, it doesn't keep me awake at night, but knowing human nature as I do, I believe that it is only a matter of time before the chain of integrity breaks down. Maybe a little regulation, preferably something self-imposed on the industry by itself, might not be a bad thing.

I know who I get my juice from. Many vendors welcome visitors to their facilities, including my favorite two. The current option of self regulation is AEMSA. Their regulations are not based on any rhyme or reason that I can get behind. The food coloring prohibition is based on food coloring allergies of one of the leaders of that organization. The prohibition of WTAs is without any merit.

Now if someone else comes out with some manufacturer's standards that make sense, I will consider supporting that organization.

I suppose it should be no big surprise that a Lion and a Tiger view the issue differently....

Happy Hunting!

 

[ClaireW]

I missed this last night - but did see this thread before I went to the dentist today.
I mentioned to the dentist I recently quit smoking. He asked if I was using patch or some other method - I answered eCig. He said "Oh! very good. I saw the segment on tv last night." he mentioned how he heard cigarettes have 100's of bad chemicals where ecig may only have a 1/2 a dozen. seemed like a positive response

 

[Lorrie]

Not to bad a segment, at least they didn't touch on banning them from the workplace.

 

[Ben B Brown]

my thought on the banning of flavors in cigs would have to include flavor in cigars also would it not

 

[Kdizzle]

To be honest I hate how it started...Made it seem like it's some big hollywood fashion trend we are trying to copy.

I also how how doctors say crap like "we don't know the long term affects of yada yada...." They say that for everything. Why don't you ask me how I've been feeling since i quit smoking analogs?

Makes me feel like they are trying to push me back to analogs. I wouldn't be surprised if that doctor works for a tabacco company...

 

[bikerbeagle]

my thought on the banning of flavors in cigs would have to include flavor in cigars also would it not

The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of 2009 outright banned only the sale of flavored cigarettes, but it gave the FDA the authority to prohibit or regulate other flavored tobacco products (cigars, e-cigarettes, and smokeless tobacco) however they see fit - "deem" necessary. This "deeming" is what is scheduled to happen in October and what all the hubbub is about.

 

[Bob Chill]

Is eliquid a tobacco product? If so, then cherry and mint NRT lozenges and gum should be banned too. Commit better be working on their new tobacco flavored gum because the end is near.

 

[mooshi]

Interesting segment. Nice that it was pretty fair. I'd like to see if other news stations will report on it.

They did show a lot of younger peoples in the segment. While I'm only in my early 20's, I would have liked to see the different generations that vaping has helped. My uncle, who's been smoking for like his entire life, recently started vaping. It's pretty cool that he dropped the analogs in a day. haha While we got him an eGo-C Twist to start with, he's always taking one of our mech mods for a spin when he gets the chance.

 

[vape-addict]

Its disturbing..I hate to see any press on it negative or positive..

 

[grooveon]

This was neither encouraging or disturbing. I don't know what to say except I hated menthol when I first started smoking. Where do they come up with this stuff? Also, remember when they banned all those tasty Camel cig flavors? They will try to do the same with vaping, but because it isn't tobacco they may not succeed!

 

[Robino1]

E-liquid has been classified as a tobacco product in that the nicotine comes from tobacco.

 

[Barbara21]

The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of 2009 outright banned only the sale of flavored cigarettes, but it gave the FDA the authority to prohibit or regulate other flavored tobacco products (cigars, e-cigarettes, and smokeless tobacco) however they see fit - "deem" necessary. This "deeming" is what is scheduled to happen in October and what all the hubbub is about.

Am I understanding this correctly? They could possibly ban the sale of flavored eliquid but not plain eliquid??

The FDA has got to know that that won't work. Vendors would merely start packaging the plain eliquid in a separate bottle from the flavoring and then sell them as a package deal.

 

[bikerbeagle]

Is eliquid a tobacco product?

E-liquid has been classified as a tobacco product in that the nicotine comes from tobacco.

Right now, NO, eliquid is NOT considered by the FDA as a "tobacco product". This is what they are "deeming" in October.

I can't seem to find any resource stating if and/or how nicotine, in its pure form, is currently regulated. If you know of one that matter-of-factly states it, I'd be interested in seeing it. One would logically assume that it would be regulated as a tobacco product since its primary means of production is from tobacco - but tobacco is not the only thing that has nicotine in it. Everything I've read says that it is considered a drug, (or simply watched as a poison / harmful chemical)? ...I don't know. Either way, it is currently legal to purchase and own nicotine, even in it's pure form.

Beyond that, regulation of nicotine-containing products have a line drawn down the middle ...those with tobacco - cigarettes, cigars, smokeless tobaccos, etc - all either are, or potentially can/will be, regulated under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act ...and those without tobacco, currently coined Nicotine Replacement Therapy - gums, patches, lozenges, etc - are regulated as drugs.

Here is where I get kind of confused. Logically, I see e-cigarettes and ejuices firmly in the latter category ...but the FDA tried to have them determined as such and was shot down in Federal court. At the time, however, non-tobacco nicotine products were termed "smoking cessation therapies" ...which is why the e-cigarette world seemingly did a full on back-pedal about being a 'smoking cessation' device a few years ago? This makes sense because they didn't want to be classified as a drug which would require you to have a prescription or, at the very least, the only place you could get e-cigarettes would be a pharmacy. So, now, we are where we are at - because the community didn't want to be classified as a drug, we are potentially going to be lumped-in and regulated under the FSPTCA as a "tobacco product". It's one or the other. Pretty much a classic situation of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

Am I understanding this correctly? They could possibly ban the sale of flavored eliquid but not plain eliquid??

It's not only possible ...I would say it's highly likely that's exactly what is going to happen at a minimum.

The FDA has got to know that that won't work. Vendors would merely start packaging the plain eliquid in a separate bottle from the flavoring and then sell them as a package deal.

True, but there has been talk that the FDA may further regulate the production and quality control process of ejuices themselves ...and, then, of course, they are going to tax the beejesus out of it. Not necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion, depending on how far they go, but it's going to change the landscape of ejuice production - smaller mom & pops won't be able to afford/meet the requirements and will go out of business. In this scenario, you can likely see ejuice prices increase 10x ...would you still continue vaping if your ejuice ends up costing $30 for a 10ml bottle? ...how about $50?

 

[BlueMoods]

IF they do determine it is a tobacco product, then every nicotine containing item out there had better be a tobacco product as well. If they try to tax it, it had better be based on the nicotine content since that is the only part of the juice that comes from tobacco, or start taking chocolate, vanilla, cherry and every other flavoring in the grocery store the same as e-liquid flavoring and, they'd best tax RV antifreeze the same too - it's PG with coloring and a few other things in it, and all they glycerin needs the same tax.

And if they tax only the nicotine, juice makers will just go to selling it separately, you buy a flavored PG, VG or blend then, get the nic for it in a small, separate bottle and add it yourself at home.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Am I understanding this correctly? They could possibly ban the sale of flavored eliquid but not plain eliquid??

The FDA has got to know that that won't work. Vendors would merely start packaging the plain eliquid in a separate bottle from the flavoring and then sell them as a package deal.

Exactly. Banning or restricting flavored nic juice would be absolutely unenforceable, even if it survived the equal protection challenge that such a ban would certainly get.

FDA is in a conundrum. There are e-cig devices and there is e-cig juice, some of which has zero nicotine. Even a first year law clerk could point to a zero nic juice bottle with a caramel apple flavoring added and ask, "your honor, what part of the tobacco plant does this come from?"

The most likely contraptions to fall under FDA's reign under the 2009 Tobacco Act are the cigalikes and prefilled cartridges. I don't see the separate sale of eGo devices and mods doing so, nor do I see the liquids doing so. It's simply not enforceable.

 

[timinftl]

Doggone Government, this is the freakin' last thing they should be interested in and where is the FDA while "Surgical Robots" and pharmaceuticals that kill hundreds of thousands every day are out there???
And even Civil Disobedience as endorsed by our founding fathers is a Federal Crime and considered "terrorism"....

The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of 2009 outright banned only the sale of flavored cigarettes, but it gave the FDA the authority to prohibit or regulate other flavored tobacco products (cigars, e-cigarettes, and smokeless tobacco) however they see fit - "deem" necessary. This "deeming" is what is scheduled to happen in October and what all the hubbub is about.