Am I the only one who wants vaping to change?
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Haha, yeah it is difficult to be an independent thinker with two crappy choices for elected office. Or rather independent thinking doesn't get you very far. You can think all you want (and drive yourself nuts) but in the end you have to pick someone and just go with it.
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Like we had a choice between a guy who would take our freedoms away, and another guy who wouldn't? I wasn't aware we actually had two options.
Local stores are a wealth of information that is easily accessible for newbie vapers. I don't want them to go anywhere.
ROFLMAO
That's a great picture. What kinda world was it that to entice consumers your best bet was to advertise that it's "less irritating"? As if to say "Ok, you have to smoke, so smoke this crap...it's less irritating than that other crap...oh and it's pre-burnt."
It was a world full of sheep that needed shearing. They had the money and those in power wanted the money. That is what got us into the mess we are in today. Money talks and everything else walks. Just ask the Congressman that did a recent $220,000 renovation to their bathroom. That is more than twice the value of my house and apparently my taxes pay their salary. Good use of public taxes sir.
I completely understand that you want science, technology, consistency and safety.
The problem most people have with what you are saying is that you seem to want all of that right now (and perfectly done) with the use of clean rooms or labs...and small shops, mom and pops, and garage inventors simply don't have enough money to build/buy/lease that type of set-up. So effectively, it does seem like what you are asking for is for BT, BP, FDA, etc. to step in and take over. They are the only ones, aside from the huge corporations in china who are already supplying juices and equipment, who can give you immediate advances in science, technology, and clean room production for e-juice. Product testing and R&D can cost a fortune too, depending upon available resources and the extent of the testing regulations.
I absolutely don't want the FDA, or even the health department, to step in any time soon, because I aspire to be one of those mom and pop shops in the not too distant future and my plans are being seriously threatened by the proposed regulation of the industry by the FDA. I know I don't have the funds to meet their requirements. I don't even have enough money to get a retail space yet, much less to set up a clean room or a lab, and banks only lend you money when/if you don't need it.
For now, I have set aside a room in my house with the best equipment I can currently afford; my juice is made of the highest quality ingredients I can find and it's better than any mass produced juice I've ever bought (even if I do say so myself
). I have been certified in food safety management for over 20 years, and I know a lot of lab protocols as well, so I am very health and safety conscious. I only use ingredients that are USP grade (already regulated), aside from my flavorings which are all made by major companies (already regulated as well). I only use individual-use syringes (which are individually packaged in sterile wraps), I always wear gloves, and my hair is secured when I make juice. I only use bottles with child proof caps for any juice I intend to sell, unless I receive a request for an easy open cap from a customer, and all of my bottles are appropriately labeled. I do not wash and re-use bottles or most lab equipment, because I do not own an industrial dishwasher. I do re-use my luer lock blunt needles at times (unless they have been used with nicotine), but I only use each needle for one ingredient or flavor during each mixing session, and then I boil them to be sure they are clean before I store them for future use. My juice is not made in a commerical grade kitchen or a sterile lab environment, because I can't afford that type of facility, but my 'lab area' is as close to sterile as you can get without investing huge amounts of money.Despite all of the steps I described above there is no way the health department would ever approve my 'lab area' for food preparation or mixing e-juice. The primary reason has nothing to do with the safety or cleanliness of my 'lab' area either, it is primarily just because I have a cat in my house. The cat is not, and never has been, in the 'lab area', but just having an animal in the building can make you fail a health inspection. Other major issues are that my 'lab' table isn't stainless steel, I do not have a bucket of sterilizer prepped and waiting to clean my lab table as I work, and I do not have a three compartment stainless steel sink (or an industrial dishwasher or an autoclave) to ensure that any equipment I need to wash gets sterilized between uses. I do plan to open a brick and mortar as soon as I can afford it, but that plan might have to change drastically if the FDA or health department get involved.
As to your comments about quality, I, along with a lot of the other mom and pops, would be the ones who qualified for the role of Stolichnaya elite vodka (or BMW) and your prefilled cartos would be the ones in the role of Smirnoff (or Walmart). I use the highest quality ingredients I can get and make small batches, while the big corporations and chinese factories use the cheapest ingredients they can get and make 500 gallon vats at a time. Have you ever looked at a chinese wholesale website? Their prefilled cartos sell for about 55 cents per ten pack, while my juice has a production cost of 2-3 dollars for a 10 ml bottle (because that is the wholesale cost of the best ingedients in smaller quantities.) and after expenses I'd only make about a dollar in profit on a 5-6 dollar sale (if I have no employees). If I had to spend about another dollar per 10ml bottle for testing each batch, there would be no profit margin left after expenses...and that's if they don't require a clean room and I do it all myself. The mom and pops are incredibly good at regulating themselves too, because otherwise bad word of mouth puts them out of business really fast, while companies like Phillip Morris or Dekang don't give a darn if you badmouth them, because they already have millions of other customers.
But, that's the problem with big money or highly regulated vaping...it won't work, or it won't work anywhere near as well.
Just look at what they did in England...e-liquid there is limited to 2-4mg of nicotine. I could vape a whole 10ml bottle of that and still be craving a cigarette. Vaping would be useless for me right now if they limited the nicotine content to less than 12mg...and if it ends up as expensive as NRT's I won't be able to afford it. A lot of people start vaping because it's cheaper, and not smoking just kind of happens without them even planning to give up analogs.
Of the two, I'd much rather have big money get in...because at least they won't regulate vaping into being useless.
Holy unreadable walls of text, Batman!
Right. I don't want that. I like the irregularities. I like that my juice was custom made for me, and not the hundreds of guys who ordered before me and the hundreds more that will order after. I like that I have to steep my juice because it was just made specifically for me by some guy who's probably mixing it in his garage. I don't want to go to the liquor store and buy what everyone else is buying, or what's popular. I want tiny little bottles filled with juice tailored to exactly what I want. I get that right now, and you seem to want to take that away from me so you can have massed-produced juice that's all "perfect and exactly the same." No thank you. "Perfect" and "exactly the same" are not compatible. You cannot have both, but apparently you've been brainwashed by marketing to believe they are the same thing.
And you don't have much room to slam people for anti-government agendas by saying the thread had nothing to do with government, when one of your main points was (and I quote):
You specifically called for government regulation of the industry. You can pretend you didn't, but the first post is still there. And yes, most of us do not want that, and some of us are passionate about it. Sorry if you have an issue with that, but you opened this can of worms, and your first post is still there.
In any case, maybe I'd have some sympathy for your position if there was even the tiniest shred of evidence that a lack of regulation has ever caused any problems whatsoever. I'm sorry, but the only "problem" I see you cite in your post is that you don't like steeping your juice, and no, I don't want the government and major industry stepping in to provide McJuice instead of made-to-order juice for everyone so you don't have to steep yours. That's not a step forward. If steeping bothers you, buy pre-steeped juice and let the rest of us have ours.
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I love my small vendors! !!!!!! Who else will email me personally to answer my questions? You try getting that type of customer service from a big company, it just WONT happen. I think the small vendors have a more persobal connection to the products they sell, than a big corporation who cares ONLY for quarterly profits. When big companies step in, the only person who sees benefits are the stockholders. ...
For the record, this is incorrect. No 2-4mg nicotine limit in the UK.
I want fewer people to start vaping and for vaping to be considered off or unusual.
I disagree that we need labs doing this stuff. look at all the harm that is caused by the drug industry. Also the cost will go up and people who want to mix there own will not be able to. we should have options and freedom. Only thing i do want is a good tank/atomizer that does not leak that i dont have to throw away and a good dictionary with picture so I can figure out all the types and names (I have vaped 6 weeks smoked 22 years)
I understand what you're saying OP. But ... I can't help but look at a packet of cigarettes ingredients - arsenic, ammonia, tar, MOAI's; or what is listed in a can of beans or soup on the supermarketshelves vs what I use when I grab some dry beans and cook them, or make a pot of soup. Know your vendor, feel free to ask them questions. I'll take my chances on a boutique than allow Reynolds or Kraft to get involved in e-juice and flavorings as I have yet to see big pharma, big tobacco, FDA or any large company give a single rat about us the consumers and our health. Make a blooper like that as a small business owner and you're going to be out of business and out of assets very very quickly.
Best description ever.
That being said, I suppose theres a market for it, I admit, for the time being, I vape halo torque 56, which, granted its high quality, but its still "Mcjuice" - premade with little variation. I can see where some people would want it, just as some would rather have an HP, or a dell, or a compaq, rather than a custom built machine.
But then, at the end of the day, 99 percent of the time, its crystal clear which is a better product, and other than that 1 percent of the time, it isn't the Mc.
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And that's cool. I like a Big Mac once in a while (or I did before the heart attack that got me to start vaping, anyway). There's room for that. There's nothing right now stopping any mega-corporation from jumping into the juice business, and if they did, I'm sure they'd find customers.
But if you start pulling in a laundry list of needless regulations, and put a huge barrier to entry in front of the juicemakers, like requiring lab-grade setups and government registrations, game over. At that point all you're going to get is the big players who can afford all that, your only choice will be the mass-produced stuff, and you can kiss all the juicemakers we know and love around here goodbye. That's what scares me about what the OP thinks she wants.
I'm right there with you Trick. It needs time to grow and become strong. If some large company comes into it because theres a void that needs filling or a demographic that isn't being served, thats not necessarily a bad thing unless they go "tonya harding" and try kneecapping the little guys. I don't think that too likely though.
Like I say, I'm right there with you. I think, as things are now, they're on a good path, so long as the boat doesn't get rocked too hard by needless regulation.
IMO if big pharm and the like get involved we'll end up with juice that has more crap in it than the analogs did and then we'll be in a worse boat than we were on the analogs.
No, you are not the only one who wants vaping to change. The pharmaceutical industry wants vaping to change. The ANTZ want vaping to change. The FDA wants vaping to change. Big tobacco wants vaping to change(monopoly).
Nope, you are not at all the only one who wants vaping to change.
Nope, you are not at all the only one who wants vaping to change.
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