Achieving better throat hits from nic salts? (and questions on hybrid devices and liquids)

[Mikenet]

I'm an old school vaper who's been using standard sub ohm devices off and on for about a decade. I'm used to having a moderate throat hit from my setups but have heard that nic salts are the new craze because they deliver nicotine faster and more effectively than standard liquids but they lack the same throat hit.

My main question is how do I achieve a similar throat hit from nicotine salts as I would from standard free base liquids? I don't need something super strong, I was never a high PG vaper that needed excessive throat hits but I want something that gets as close to the sensation of a normal cigarette as possible.

I have a few different methods for going about achieving a better throat hit but I'm unfamiliar with the new line of nic salt liquids and compatible vaporizers so I'd need specific suggestions on liquids and devices I can use.

Methods for achieving a better throat hit with nic salts (these are just ideas based on my current level of understanding, other ideas are welcome)....

• Method 1 (liquids with higher nicotine levels and stronger flavors)

I figure that one of the most obvious workarounds for the low throat hits of nicotine salts would be to buy liquids with higher nicotine levels and strong flavors like menthol or cinnamon. I plan to try this but I'm unfamiliar with websites that offer a range of nicotine salts for a reasonable price. Personally I'd need ides on websites that offer a strong menthol nic salt liquid with customizable nicotine levels.

• Method 2 (devices that can handle either free base liquid tanks or nic salt tanks/pods)

I'm basically just floating ideas and asking questions on this one. I'm weary of buying a low powered device that can't output enough power to use a sub ohm tank. I'd prefer to have a device that is compatible with both sub ohm tanks AND nic salt pods or tanks. Frankly I don't understand why my Istick Pico couldn't use a nic salt compatible tank IF it's threaded the same. This particular vaporizer goes up to 75W but it's adjustable so why couldn't I just turn it down? It goes all the down to 1W. If this idea will work I'd need to know what wattage range to use the IStick Pico at when using a nic salt compatible tank.

I'd love to be able to do it this way but if it wont work, is there any device that will handle both Sub ohm tanks and nic salt tanks? I'd love to be able to do this as an introductory to nic salts. If nic salts turn out not to be for me, I wouldn't be wasting my money on a device I wont use or alternatively I could swap out tanks on the same device. I may decide to just vape on my normal sub ohm tank with a liquid containing no nicotine to get my throat hit, then switch over to the nicotine salt tank for the nicotine. Sounds like a hassle but I'm trying to quit smoking again so I'm willing to do this if it's an option.

Hopefully this method could also work well with the next one...

• Method 3 (Hybrid Liquids)

Here I'm talking about liquids that have both a nic salt base and a traditional free base nicotine solution mixed in to achieve a better throat hit. I've heard that some people are buying or making hybrid liquids to get the best of both. A reasonable throat hit and the benefits of having faster nicotine delivery.

This raises question for me though, if it's a hybrid liquid, is it best to use it in a nic salt specific pod device, or a traditional vaporizer set to a reasonably lower wattage? Would a liquid like this work in my Istick Pico, to recap while it does go all the way up to 75w, it's adjustable and will go down to 1W. If I can use my Pico, I'd need to know what wattage and type of tank that'd work best for a hybrid liquid. Could I just use a sub ohm tank and turn the wattage down to under 10W or a similar range with a hybrid liquid?

___________________________

As a side note, I used to be experienced enough with vaping to make my own custom liquids and flavors so I'm at no risk of getting sick by doing something stupid like vaping nicotine salts at high wattage's. I'm doing this post in advance to be updated on new hardware, liquids, and methods for vaping nic salts while getting a moderate throat hit comparable to a balanced freebased nic solution.

I'd love any ideas on good websites to get started and any help is appreciated!

 

[smacuser]

Dunno, man.

GL and let us know.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Nic salt is, or was, available in a few different 'throat hit levels'. Nic salt and freebase nic can be used with the same tanks and coils. Now, a low powered pod might not deliver the same 'toke' as a device with a sub-ohm coil and more battery power, but salt and freebase nics are basically the same except for the extra ingredient that makes freebase nic into nic salt which I'm sure you know lets it provide a higher nic concentration with less throat hit.

 

[smacuser]

Never used salts or subohmed. I get good TH from my 12mg and tobacco mixes.

Okay, using the 0.8 Z-coil as we speak.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Never used salts or subohmed. I get good TH from my 12mg and tobacco mixes.

I've sub-ohmed. That was the only time I had to wrap a coil less than 10 minutes after I tried it.. I'm certainly an 'above ohmer', 1.4 to 1.8. I've never tried salt nic. 25 mg/ml freebase and about a 70/30 PG/VG ratio suit me just fine.

 

[smacuser]

—-

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Method 2 (devices that can handle either free base liquid tanks or nic salt tanks/pods)

I can't help you on your journey, but I want to address this. There are a lot of people who claim that the "this device is for/only for nic salt" claim is BS. But then there are others who claim that it's not BS. Not sure who to believe.

Not sure who to believe.

In fact, there is an eliquid company who posts a lot on reddit that sells only their eliquid and 2 particular devices (Uwell Caliburn G and Uwell Caliburn A2), and claims their nic salts are optimized not just for nic salt devices but for those 2 particular nic salt devices. Not sure if this is just some marketing ploy or what.

 

[Mikenet]

To update...

I've been doing some research and learned some useful information although I still would love suggestions on new hardware and nic salt liquids. I still haven't settled on a website or any purchases to make. The last online vaping store I regularly shopped at was www.madvapes.com and I'm not sure if they're good by today's standards, things have changed a lot in recent years.

Specific information on this topic seems like it's a little hard to come by. If it helps anyone, one of the most useful video's I found on device compatibility is this one....



Somdcomputerguy...

Nic salt and freebase nic can be used with the same tanks and coils.

It appears you're right, that's the same thing they're saying in the video above. It seems like this whole trend of "Pods" and nic salt specific vaporizers is a marketing gimmick. I'm not seeing any reason why a tank and traditional vaporizer wouldn't work with nicotine salt liquids.

However, the video above is pointing out a few things. Mainly that...

• Nic salt liquids tend to be thinner and could leak in a tank that's optimized for liquids which have a moderate or high VG concentration.
  
  
• Nic salt liquids allow for higher concentrations of nicotine and the effects are felt faster than freebase liquids. Therefore vaping nic salts at high wattage's isn't recommended.

I did find out that Aspire Nautilus tanks have a replacement coil that's specifically designed to work with nic salt liquids. So the idea would be to swap out coils when refilling the tank with a nic salt liquid...

https://www.electrictobacconist.com/aspire-nautilus-aio-coils-p5500

I almost bought this until I read some of the reviews. Apparently these coils leak a lot by comparison to the other nautilus coils. Either that or people aren't realizing that it's the thinner nic salt liquid causing the leaks because the tank isn't optimized for a thinner liquid.

It must have been 10 years ago by now when I first switched from cotton filled cartomizers to tanks and my biggest beef with tanks was that most of them would leak. It took a while and for the industry to evolve to come across a tank that didn't constantly leak or get E-liquid in my mouth so I don't want to go back to that

I think this is what I'll need to narrow down and find from here as far as hardware is concerned...

• A tank that is known for not leaking with thinner E-liquids.

• And one that is also compatible with sub ohm coils as well as coils over 1 ohm in case I want to switch between freebase and nic salt liquids.

My Eleaf Melo 3 tanks were great for not leaking but the highest resistance coils they take is 0.5 ohms...

Eleaf Melo 3 Mini Sub-Ohm Tank 2ml | SmokTek.com

Probably not ideal for vaping nic salts although I may just be able to turn the wattage down low on my vaporizer and still get a good vape, I'm not sure. I'm hearing a few different opinions on that.

I can't help you on your journey, but I want to address this. There are a lot of people who claim that the "this device is for/only for nic salt" claim is BS. But then there are others who claim that it's not BS. Not sure who to believe.

Not sure who to believe.

In fact, there is an eliquid company who posts a lot on reddit that sells only their eliquid and 2 particular devices (Uwell Caliburn G and Uwell Caliburn A2), and claims their nic salts are optimized not just for nic salt devices but for those 2 particular nic salt devices. Not sure if this is just some marketing ploy or what.

Sounds like utter BS to me and a marketing scheme. Although I haven't tried any of this yet, I also haven't come across a single source that's giving a good reason why you couldn't just use a normal vaporizer to vape nic salts. The tanks chosen to vape nic salt liquids seems to be relevant on some level though. The information I'm coming across is suggesting that as long as the resistance of the coils is over 1 ohm and the tank wont leak with thinner E-liquids, then it should be fine to use nic salts or freebase in the same device. It should even be okay to use sub ohm coils with nic salt liquids if the wattage is turned down or the liquid has a low mg level of nicotine.

I'll be testing all of this out as soon as I settle on equipment and liquids to buy.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Nic salts not only can have a higher nic level w/ less throat hit, but I've heard and read that the 'nic effect' can happen quicker than w/ freebase nic. I don't know if this is due to the chemical that is added to achieve the 'high nic/less TH' thing, or if another is responsible.

 

[Mikenet]

Nic salts not only can have a higher nic level w/ less throat hit, but I've heard and read that the 'nic effect' can happen quicker than w/ freebase nic. I don't know if this is due to the chemical that is added to achieve the 'high nic/less TH' thing, or if another is responsible.

Right, that's why I'm very interested in them. I quit smoking for about 2 months with the help of freebase liquids but it didn't stick. That's mainly my fault but I started smoking again in part because I wasn't getting the same fast nicotine delivery from vaping as I was from smoking. After I started smoking again, vaping still helped for a while. I was only smoking about 3 -5 cigarettes a day for about a year and using my vaporizer a bit in between smoking. Eventually though I went back to a pack a day smoking and dropped vaping unfortunately.

That's mostly my fault for not being disciplined but I'm looking forward to try nic salts based on how many people are saying that they closely resemble the effect of smoking. I'm not an expert on this but from what I'm reading, just like freebase liquids, nic salts don't have nearly the negative health effects of burning and inhaling straight tobacco. The difference between freebase solutions and nic salts is the addition of an ingredient that lowers the PH level. Most commonly they're just adding benzoic acid which is naturally occurring in tobacco and many edible plants and foods as well.

So based on what I'm reading it's much like you were suggesting. They're taking freebase nicotine and adding another ingredient that's found in tobacco. It's helping to reduce harshness and deliver the tobacco faster to the bloodstream.

For me right now it's just about finding the hardware and liquids I want and getting the ideal throat hit.

 

[GeorgeS]

All just my IMHO - obviously YMMV:

• Nic salts have less throat hit - much higher MG can be used
• Even at same MG level Nic salts gets absorbed by the body faster (I've gotten a 'nicotine rush' off the same MG salts that I usually vape freebase which I never have got a 'rush' from
• Due to both its reduced throat hit and increased absortion rate it is much easier to OD on nicotine with salts than it is with freebase.
• A device is a device is a device. Some are fairly low vapor production and others are rather LARGE vapor production. It does not matter what type of nicotine is used.
• Power is a useless measure. Vapor production is keyed on surface area and temperature.
• Resistance is a useless measure. Vapor production is keyed on surface area and temperature.

Personally almost all my rigs are temperature regulated 'subohm' setups (using NiFe48) being driven with power levels <30W (single coil) and <60W (dual coil). I generally use 26-30AWG and 6-8 wraps. I can fog up my car or living room fairly quickly and easily with even the single coil rigs.

I'll vape 7-18mg freebase and 50mg nic salts with any and all of my devices.


g.

 

[Mikenet]

All just my IMHO - obviously YMMV:

• Nic salts have less throat hit - much higher MG can be used
• Even at same MG level Nic salts gets absorbed by the body faster (I've gotten a 'nicotine rush' off the same MG salts that I usually vape freebase which I never have got a 'rush' from
• Due to both its reduced throat hit and increased absortion rate it is much easier to OD on nicotine with salts than it is with freebase.
• A device is a device is a device. Some are fairly low vapor production and others are rather LARGE vapor production. It does not matter what type of nicotine is used.
• Power is a useless measure. Vapor production is keyed on surface area and temperature.
• Resistance is a useless measure. Vapor production is keyed on surface area and temperature.

Personally almost all my rigs are temperature regulated 'subohm' setups (using NiFe48) being driven with power levels <30W (single coil) and <60W (dual coil). I generally use 26-30AWG and 6-8 wraps. I can fog up my car or living room fairly quickly and easily with even the single coil rigs.

I'll vape 7-18mg freebase and 50mg nic salts with any and all of my devices.


g.

Which one is harsher for you generally speaking, a 7-18mg freebase or a 50mg nic salt? I'm wondering if the fact that a 50mg nic salt is such a high content of nicotine that it starts to feel like the throat hit of a lower mg freebase. I'll probably start with one bottle of 30mg nic salt and something closer to 20mg to try two different levels.

 

[GeorgeS]

Which one is harsher for you generally speaking, a 7-18mg freebase or a 50mg nic salt? I'm wondering if the fact that a 50mg nic salt is such a high content of nicotine that it starts to feel like the throat hit of a lower mg freebase. I'll probably start with one bottle of 30mg nic salt and something closer to 20mg to try two different levels.

Frankly I can't say that ether one is more harsh then the other. I just have to be mindful of the salts when vaping it as it is fairly easy to OD. I used to vape it with my morning coffee ~1hr then will generally switch to something 7mg freebase. I use 18mg in the car and on the night stand.


g.

 

[listopencil]

I'll stop in to reply here even though this looks like an older thread. The only way I've been able to use vaping to replace smoking is with what is considered by today's standards a low power set up. I mean floating from 8 Watts to 16 Watts depending on the tank. When I wander up to 20 Watts and above it just doesn't feel enough like smoking to scratch the itch. So I stick with older style RTA's at lower wattages and use nic salts to beef them up. The only newer tank I use is the Innokin Ares 2 which was designed specifically to mimic a cig (MTL) and it does work well. I will go anywhere from 35mgs to 50mgs with my juice depending on what I can find in flavors that I like. An old school dependable RTA will not leak if you wick it right. Uwell Crown (original), Uwell Crown Mini, and the Innokin Axiom are in my rotation. The Ares 2 is still somewhat new-ish (not really though) and it works great. If the tank has good airflow control and it's designed well then it will work.

As far as mods go it does not matter at all. If it has a 510 connection and you can set it to 8-16 Watts then you can use it to MTL an RTA with nic salts. The coil I am puffing on right now is at 0.98 Ohms, 13.5 Watts (getting 13.0 when firing), on a device that goes up to 200 Watts. My pocket vape is sitting at 1.47 Ohms set to 13 Watts, that's the Innokin Axiom on an OBS Cube device. My back up tanks are the two Crowns with the original RBA head and they are both at less than 0.5 Ohms resistance. I just plop them on either device if I need to swap out.

I would suggest that you look at some old Youtube videos from guys that do MTL. Vaping With Vic, PB Busardo and Vaping Greek, Mike Vapes, Grimm Green, Zophie Reviews (she has videos where she makes coils and installs then wicks them, and she's cute with a nice voice). I do nothing but RTA tanks now and they keep me off of the cigs.

 

[Superuser187]

i have tried nic salts once in subohm and mouth to lung in same percentage 4mg in sub and 12mg in mtl and didn't felt any difference in the nicotine delivery. And since the freebase nic for me its much better in giving me the cigarette throat hit i like i just continue vape that.
Pg doesn't give me any throat hit also.
I think that salts really work better for those that want very high nic in small devices i guess thats why they tend to use them there.

I also have read in reddit and cant remember details but there was an explanation about a study that could be true that nic salts are not to used in high wattage cause somehow there is tooo much heat and destroys the nic in salts and in general its not good to be used.
Felt wierd to be cause i think u can achieve high temperatures even with low wattages tho if the airflow is tight so i am not sure if i believe this study.
But just saying.

I am not sure if mikenet needs more throat hit or more nicotine delivery but if its about throat hit why not increase your freebase that u vape in your subohm?
If u want more nicotine delivery tho but freebase is toooo harsh on the throat but u still want a throat hit maybe u could try what i have heard many some people do is to make your pwn juice and combine salts with freebase to finetune your nicotine and throat hit delivery.
Or just quit subohming and go for mtl

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Which one is harsher for you generally speaking, a 7-18mg freebase or a 50mg nic salt? I'm wondering if the fact that a 50mg nic salt is such a high content of nicotine that it starts to feel like the throat hit of a lower mg freebase.

While the start and end range numbers will vary upon many factors, your thought is generally correct. Nicotine does cause a slight irritation to different (ie, your forearm and your throat) skin types, and this irritation increases with the level of nicotine. Nic salt has an added ingredient to reduce the 'throat hit intensity' (and also to make the nic 'kick in' quicker) that would be in a higher nic mg/ml level freebase nicotine liquid, but to some they may seem to have more/less/similar 'throat hit levels', as there are more factors (which are certainly not constants) to that..