About mixing formulas and exactitude

[zoiDman]

Yes; express the level as a percentage. BUT !!! express the CHANGE as the difference between the old percentage and the new percentage as a percentage. (3% is 150% of 2%)

In the Context of DIY, explaining things as a Percentage Differential of a Initial Percentage can be a Awkward. Especially when more than 1 Percentage Differential has sequentially occurred. Or when Multiple Initial Percentages change (which has to happen) when any Individual Percentage either Increases or Decreases but the Total Volume remains the same.

Whereas discussing things in Percentages of Volume leaves less room for Confusion. And Doesn't require the Reader to perform Math Calculations to understand what a person is sometimes say'n.

Perhaps that is why the Vast Majority of people who Discuss DIY refer to Percentages as Percentages of Volume and not as Rates of Change?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

In the Context of DIY, explaining things as a Percentage Differential of a Initial Percentage can be a Awkward. Especially when more than 1 Percentage Differential has sequentially occurred. Or when Multiple Initial Percentages change (which has to happen) when any Individual Percentage either Increases or Decreases but the Total Volume remains the same.

Whereas discussing things in Percentages of Volume leaves less room for Confusion. And Doesn't require the Reader to perform Math Calculations to understand what a person is sometimes say'n.

Perhaps that is why the Vast Majority of people who Discuss DIY refer to Percentages as Percentages of Volume and not as Rates of Change?

Agreed to a point. I do think its important when saying increasing/decreasing ones nic level that we understand that rate of change..Case in point....I vape 3mg. When I recently tried nic salts, the sites are saying you can effectively up your nic level without a noticeable difference. Wrong. My nic salts were at 6mg and I felt like my head was coming off. That is because I not only increased by 3mg per ml but in effect DOUBLED my rate of usage. That is more meaningful to me than just saying I increased by 3mg.

Just yesterday, a lady that I make a couple of mixes for insisted that I lower her nic to 3mg from 18mg. I told her 'big mistake' to take such drastic steps and she has almost no chance of succeeding. And that I was afraid she would resort back to smoking. But I did lower it and am now waiting for the call to increase. Time will tell. My point is too many people just haven't got a clue as to what all is involved in vaping. They just want it to be as easy as it was to open that pack of smokes, no fuss no bother. sry
/rant

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Beamslider]

I don't really care about vg/pg percent that it ends up at.

I am only really careful about measuring nicotine percentage. The flavoring close enough, the percent VG/PG, a little thicker or thinner. No big deal.

 

[zoiDman]

Agreed to a point. I do think its important when saying increasing/decreasing ones nic level that we understand that rate of change..Case in point....I vape 3mg. When I recently tried Nic Salts, the sites are saying you can effectively up your nic level without a noticeable difference. Wrong. My nic salts were at 6mg and I felt like my head was coming off. That is because I not only increased by 3mg per ml but in effect DOUBLED my rate of usage. That is more meaningful to me than just saying I increased by 3mg.

Just yesterday, a lady that I make a couple of mixes for insisted that I lower her nic to 3mg from 18mg. I told her 'big mistake' to take such drastic steps and she has almost no chance of succeeding. And that I was afraid she would resort back to smoking. But I did lower it and am now waiting for the call to increase. Time will tell. My point is too many people just haven't got a clue as to what all is involved in vaping. They just want it to be as easy as it was to open that pack of smokes, no fuss no bother. sry
/rant

Merry Christmas everyone.

Yeah... When the English Language collides with Mathematics, there will Always be sometimes when One Way of Expressing something is More Meaningful to an individual than another.

Something like "Doubling" an amount can have Unusual Effects. Because the Effect is many times Dependent on the Starting Amount.

Doubling the amount of Butterscotch Flavoring I use in a Recipe might have Little Effect if the Initial amount is very small. Like say 0.5%.

But Doubling the Amount of say Nicotine from 3mg/ml to 6mg/ml, or from 6mg/ml to 12mg/ml, can have a Monumental Effect. Even though the Rate of Change is the Same.

 

[sofarsogood]

I truly believe that people who are vaping for the nicotine frequently vape at sub-optimally low nic levels. If you feel compelled to chain vape, you are probably vaping at too low a level.

I was vaping 7 ml per day at 10 mg nic. I upped nic to 12 mg and daily ml's declined to 6. Mission accomplished. I'm more concerned about throat irritation than nic levels.

I got a good set of graduated cylinders, 5,10,25,50,100,250 ml's, and enjoy the ritual of using them. (The 250 cylinder is only to mix half liter batches for a brother.) For myself I mix 200 ml batches once a month into a 240 ml squeeze bottle with one all-in-one flavoring at 1%.

 

[DaveP]

sofarsogood wrote: I was vaping 7 ml per day at 10 mg nic. I upped nic to 12 mg and daily ml's declined to 6. Mission accomplished. I'm more concerned about throat irritation than nic levels.

I remember years ago when I vaped 24mg juice. Coming off a 2 PAD Merit lights and ultra lights cig habit 24mg was about right. Now, my 3mg juice has me vaping constantly. Upping my nic might just reduce my juice consumption.

The only reason I dropped that far was the exposure if medical detection showed nic in my system. Insurance companies are pretty sensitive to that and some will charge you back premiums for the year as a smoker. Since I vape more than I did using 24mg it's probably not as light in my system as it would seem. I vape more at lower nic strength and probably still don't get as much as I used to, though.

 

[Beamslider]

I don't know if increasing the mg of nic would lower amount of vaping. I like vaping quite often. I do 3 mg and pretty sure with amount of vapor I get that the nic level still gives a sizable amount of nic.

 

[DaveP]

I don't know if increasing the mg of nic would lower amount of vaping. I like vaping quite often. I do 3 mg and pretty sure with amount of vapor I get that the nic level still gives a sizable amount of nic.

I vape more at the 3mg level than I did at the 24mg strength. I went through a 50ml bottle of vendor juice a week at 24mg and since I dropped to 3mg and also began to DIY about a year and a half ago I'm vaping about 10ml a day. That's about 40% more now than before DIY.

 

[JCinFLA]

I vape more at the 3mg level than I did at the 24mg strength. I went through a 50ml bottle of vendor juice a week at 24mg and since I dropped to 3mg and also began to DIY about a year and a half ago I'm vaping about 10ml a day. That's about 40% more now than before DIY.

You're vaping more mLs of eliquid per week now (70mLs compared to 50mLs). But...there's a huge difference in the total mg of nic you were getting per week at 24mg/mL...compared to what you're getting per week now with the 3mg/mL!

70mLs x 3mg/mL = only 210 mg/week
50mLs x 24mg/mL = 1200 mg/week
Wowza!

So, based on the above...I'm a bit confused. Why do people think that if you're vaping more mLs of eliquid per week, at a lower level of nic, (yet you're satisfied with the lower total weekly nic mg intake)...it means you should up your nic?

 

[Beamslider]

I vape 15 ML a day of 3 mg. I'm good with that.

 

[DaveP]

You're vaping more mLs of eliquid per week now (70mLs compared to 50mLs). But...there's a huge difference in the total mg of nic you were getting per week at 24mg/mL...compared to what you're getting per week now with the 3mg/mL!

70mLs x 3mg/mL = only 210 mg/week
50mLs x 24mg/mL = 1200 mg/week
Wowza!

So, based on the above...I'm a bit confused. Why do people think that if you're vaping more mLs of eliquid per week, at a lower level of nic, (yet you're satisfied with the lower total weekly nic mg intake)...it means you should up your nic?

I do vape lots more often at 3mg than I ever did at 24mg. Another difference is that I was vaping an eGo with a cartridge followed by a Nautilus with vendor heads back in the 24mg days. Once I changed to Kayfuns 24mg was a lot more potent and I began to drop the nic level over a period of several months.

I wonder sometimes if I should go back to a higher nic ratio. I'd like to be one that takes a big hit every ten minutes and doesn't feel the need to vape constantly. Getting the buzz from one hit is satisfying. When I smoked years ago I bought a pack every morning (Red Marlboros). Later, when I switched to lights and then ultra lights I found myself smoking 2 and 3 PAD. Since nic isn't really a bad thing, you'd think that a level where you are satisfied with one tank a day instead of two or three would be healthier for your lungs. There are times when I vape really heavy 50pg/50vg mix that I can sense a little lung irritation.

 

[pwmeek]

You're vaping more mLs of eliquid per week now (70mLs compared to 50mLs). But...there's a huge difference in the total mg of nic you were getting per week at 24mg/mL...compared to what you're getting per week now with the 3mg/mL!

70mLs x 3mg/mL = only 210 mg/week
50mLs x 24mg/mL = 1200 mg/week
Wowza!

So, based on the above...I'm a bit confused. Why do people think that if you're vaping more mLs of eliquid per week, at a lower level of nic, (yet you're satisfied with the lower total weekly nic mg intake)...it means you should up your nic?

My switch to higher nic strengths seriously reduced my daily nicotine intake. When I was vaping 36 mg/ml I was using nearly 200 mg per day of nicotine. After switching to 50 mg/ml it dropped to around 150 mg per day. Now, at 65 mg/ml I am down to a bit over 100 mg per day. (I did a short stretch of vaping 100 mg/ml, but found that my daily nic consumption rose again to around 135 mg per day, so I went back to my 65.)

My experimentation with higher nicotine levels was prompted because I felt I was vaping too much (chain vaping actually) rather than to reduce my daily nic consumption. The reduction in daily nicotine intake was a bonus.

Note well that I was a VERY heavy smoker (4 PPD unfiltered plus snus) and was accustomed to high levels of nicotine. I do not recommend such high strengths for anyone else. I do suggest that folks who are vaping more often than they like might consider increasing the strength of their own nic levels by 30 to 50 % (say from 12 mg/ml up to 15 or 18 mg/ml) and see whether it affects how much they vape and how much nicotine they are consuming. If the change is to their liking, they can try another moderate increase. It does require some discipline to cut back on the number of puffs and the frequency when switching to higher strengths.

I keep a spreadsheet where I record what strength I put in my 60 ml dispensing bottle and what day it was. I can then see how much juice (and nicotine) I used in the number of days between fills fo the bottle and calculate my average daily use of juice and nicotine. It's very clear that in my case, stronger e-juice (up to a point) lets me vape MUCH less juice each day and reduces my daily nicotine consumption.

I don't know what to recommend for people who are getting tested for nicotine (and are subject to penalties if they test high for nicotine). Possibly some form of activism, fighting the idea that nicotine use is the same as smoking.

 

[pwmeek]

I vape 15 ML a day of 3 mg. I'm good with that.

Now I think THAT would make me feel really bad. I vape more like 1 to 1.5 ml per day. I really like having all the time I used to spend vaping available for other things.

 

[DaveP]

I don't know what to recommend for people who are getting tested for nicotine (and are subject to penalties if they test high for nicotine). Possibly some form of activism, fighting the idea that nicotine use is the same as smoking.

It's funny that the GetInsured agent asked me "Have you smoked cigarettes in the last 6 months?" The answer to that was no. They didn't ask about cigars or pipes or SNUS or Vaping or anything else. Now, I'm covered by Medicare and an inexpensive policy that covers the 20% of part A and B that MC doesn't. I'm not so concerned about it anymore.

I dropped my nic when the ACA started dictating higher rates for smokers and threatened to charge back premiums if you tested positive for nic. At 3mg I thought maybe I could say I used Nicorette here and there to stay a non-smoker. It's apparent now that I just get more nic by vaping more 3mg juice than I did when I vaped 24mg.

I may just mix up a bottle of higher nic and see what happens to my juice consumption.

 

[JCinFLA]

It's apparent now that I just get more nic by vaping more 3mg juice than I did when I vaped 24mg.

Huh? How is that possible, when this is the comparison of how much nic you were getting per week at 24mg, with what you are getting now at 3mg?

70mLs x 3mg/mL = only 210 mg/week

50mLs x 24mg/mL = 1200 mg/week

 

[DaveP]

Huh? How is that possible, when this is the comparison of how much nic you were getting per week at 24mg, with what you are getting now at 3mg?

70mLs x 3mg/mL = only 210 mg/week

50mLs x 24mg/mL = 1200 mg/week

I went back to Madvapes to see what my vendor juice order rate was, but their order records only show a short history. I do know that I ordered juice about once a month from them. I just don't remember how much. I was vaping eGo and Nautilus back then. I may have only ordered one or two 50ml bottles at a time back then for a month. I vape two Kayfun tanks a day now.

 

[Rossum]

I dropped my nic when the ACA started dictating higher rates for smokers and threatened to charge back premiums if you tested positive for nic.

I own a business and buy insurance for my employees (including my wife, who has me on "her" policy). When our carrier (a Blue Cross affiliate) sent me that survey in 2014, it had been less than 6 months since I'd switched to vaping, so I classified myself as a 'tobacco user'. They never asked again. Then last year my broker asked me: "How long since you've been vaping instead of smoking?" Over three years. "Well, they still have you classified as a tobacco user and that's wrong!" Are you sure? Check with them please. So they did. This particular company does not consider the use of e-cigs to be 'tobacco use'.

 

[IDJoel]

I may just mix up a bottle of higher nic and see what happens to my juice consumption.

I recently upped my nic from 6mg/mL to 18mg/mL. Not so much for reducing nicotine, but to reduce overall vapor consumption. I am a 5 year vapor (hit my vapo-versey 12/28/2017), and was starting to notice a heavier feeling in my chest, an increase in my tinnitus, and wanting to loosen the "leash" to my device (chain-vaping was becoming way too commonplace).

Thick vapor, and direct-to-lung (DTL) hits, are what allowed me to get off the coffin nails. But, the VG was giving me the heavy chest (which I found trying to drop the PG level), and PG was exacerbating the ringing in my ears (which I discovered while trying to raise the VG). So, with a fairly narrow PG/VG ratio (40P/60V - 30P/70V); I decided reducing overall consumption and getting away from DTL might be best for me.

So far, I have been able to implement half the plan. I tripled my previous nic content and my consumption has reduced by two thirds. I am happy with the early results.

All my tanks are open, airy, dual-coil, DTL styles; so even though I have closed the airflow off drastically, it is still too easy to "cheat," and I find myself DTLing. The flavor has also suffered BIG time. When budget permits, my next stage of "the plan," is to get a true single-coil MTL tank (like the Berserker, Siren 2, or Ares), and see how that goes.

As far as the nic goes; I was filling my tank at least 3 times a day, and sometimes 4. Now, I am filling it once a day. I find I reach for my rig much less often. If I am otherwise occupied, I can find that I have gone for 3 hours (or more) without taking a vape break. My lungs feel better, and the ringing in my ears seems a little better. I am feeling optimistic.

 

[pwmeek]

I recently upped my nic from 6mg/mL to 18mg/mL. Not so much for reducing nicotine, but to reduce overall vapor consumption. I am a 5 year vapor (hit my vapo-versey 12/28/2017), and was starting to notice a heavier feeling in my chest, an increase in my tinnitus, and wanting to loosen the "leash" to my device (chain-vaping was becoming way too commonplace).<snip>

For me it was the "handicap" of chain vaping - having a rig in my left hand all the time (why put the rig down if I would want another puff in 20 seconds?) really interfered with almost everything. It made it hard to use a keyboard; it caused a strain and cramps in my right thumb (holding books single-handed); it even damages books (books that have been held open with the thumb get a distinctive distortion of the spine and damage to the bottom of the pages near the center of the book which is called "thumbed"); it caused strife at the dinner table ("Can't you put that thing down for 20 minutes?"); like I said, a handicap.

I haven't noticed any change in my tinnitus, but I'm pretty deaf anyway ("severe" to "profound" is how the doc puts it) and the tinnitus just makes it even harder to understand people. Cutting the PG in my e-juice would require getting a supply of nic-in-VG to complement my large supply (2 to 10 liters of various mixes) of nic base which is heavy on the PG. It would also (getting back to the thread topic) require a search for a new, simple mixing formula. Besides, I like the TH I get from a high PG formula (68/32) and the minimal visible vapor (good for stealth vaping).

 

[Letitia]

@IDJoel I was having the heavy lung feeling as well. I started using DW and it does help. Started with 10%, too much juice was loose and crackling bugged me. Have dropped to 3% dw and only use pg if flavors are under 10%.