200 Watt Mods Battery Safety

[Rizzyking]

Genuine question here, has there been regulated devices causing injury I ask because I mainly avoid reports of this and that blowing up because between user error (most common cause) and various makers playing shenanigans to damage a competitor most are just attention grabbers with little truth or substance to them. On the issue of 2 battery 200w mods I look at them as an advert game everyone wanting to look as good as each other even though two currently available 18650's cannot safely deliver 200w continuous output it's a slimy practice but hardly limited to vaping. Also it cannot be ignored that the vast majority of user's buy 200w mods not because they are ever going to use even close to 200w but for the extended battery life that gives a true working day amount of vaping.

 

[retird]

On the issue of 2 battery 200w mods I look at them as an advert game everyone wanting to look as good as each other even though two currently available 18650's cannot safely deliver 200w continuous output it's a slimy practice but hardly limited to vaping.

I say that the manufacturer need only to make devices that operate within the safe limits of the batteries they recommend using.. Simple... no hype, no gaming...

 

[Rizzyking]

Agreed retird in an ideal world that's how it would work but we both know playing with numbers and claims is an industry in itself I don't like it on anything vape gear included but I don't see it ending anytime soon.

 

[retird]

Agreed retird in an ideal world that's how it would work but we both know playing with numbers and claims is an industry in itself I don't like it on anything vape gear included but I don't see it ending anytime soon.

Yep, you are probably right..... but there are some manufacturers doing it right I think.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

HCigar VT133 DNA 200

The Hcigar VT133 (DNA200) is a 133 watt mod (hence the name VT133). When using a DNA200 chip you get 133 watts using 2 batteries wired in series. You can only get 200 watts when using 3 batteries wired in series.

 

[Marc411]

Chieftain 220W TC Box Mod by Wotofo

And I would agree that many enjoy the battery life on a dual 18650 device and I am not interested in 200W.

Just a thought on this topic, my Tundra speedometer says I can do 160 MPH but I'm not sure that would be smart. The manufactures create these devices but because it's there doesn't mean you should use it. Just like using a mech it's the users has to take responsibility for using the device safely.

I find it somewhat ridiculous that there are many examples in life (cars speed) of items manufactured with limits that are at a higher level then intended use but with a regulated device we talk about it being unacceptable.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

In my opinion it doesn't come down to whether you should use a certain amount of power. It comes down to whether it's actually attainable. I don't believe 200 watts is attainable with two 18650's (at least not through the whole battery cycle).

Using cars as an analogy, I look at it like this. If you're old enough to remember, they used to rate cars with gas mileage that was unobtainable in real world environments. Yeah you might have been able to get that mpg going downhill with a 50mph wind at your back, but in the real world you weren't coming close to those numbers. They have since been forced to change their ratings to reflect what you might actually get in the real world. Just my .

Too sum it up, it's not about whether you should, it's about whether it can even do what it's claiming (ie false or misleading advertising).

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Rizzyking]

But will a regulated let you go beyond what is safe and as I asked before have there been incidents of regulated pushed too hard causing injury. If it's just yet another slight of hand advertising that cannot occur in real world use is it anymore then scummy marketing.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

That would depend on a few things.
1. Does the mod in question limit input current. If so are the batteries capable of producing that limit.
2. Are the batteries capable of producing what they are rated at (are they old or damaged).
3 Does the end user even know that not all batteries can outputthe same constant current. That there is a difference between the constant and pulse rating. And finally some battery re-wrappers just outright lie or to be kinder, exaggerate.

Your question is not easily answered. I'm not trying to dance around it. I'm trying to give you the best answer I can. In the end, I'm guessing the most honest way I can answer that is by the statement: It depends. Sorry I can't give a better response.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Rizzyking]

Thanks for trying Wings it really isn't straight forward but given dual battery 200w mods have been out for a while and how fast new vapers jump on them I don't remember seeing a bad incident and I think manufactuers do implement safeguards but still use bad marketing. I'm not saying it's right to do it and God help us if a fly by night outfit make one lacking in safeguards but at the minute it does seem to be a marketing issue rather then a use issue.

 

[KenD]

In my opinion it doesn't come down to whether you should use a certain amount of power. It comes down to whether it's actually attainable. I don't believe 200 watts is attainable with two 18650's (at least not through the whole battery cycle).

Using cars as an analogy, I look at it like this. If you're old enough to remember, they used to rate cars with gas mileage that was unobtainable in real world environments. Yeah you might have been able to get that mpg going downhill with a 50mph wind at your back, but in the real world you weren't coming close to those numbers. They have since been forced to change their ratings to reflect what you might actually get in the real world. Just my .

Too sum it up, it's not about whether you should, it's about whether it can even do what it's claiming (ie false or misleading advertising).

Cheers,
Steve

If using the car analogy it's more like a manufacturer selling a car that might explode or in some other catastrophic way fail when it's pushed to its maximum. It's not if it's generally safe to drive at 160 mph, if it's the car can actually do it and not fail.

As for 200w being attainable with two 18650s, in Dirk Oberhaus' recent test the Cuboid is able to push 192w and change. Not quite 200w, but above the cdr of the batteries (I believe he used Samsung 25r).

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Jim_ MDP]

But will a regulated let you go beyond what is safe and as I asked before have there been incidents of regulated pushed too hard causing injury. If it's just yet another slight of hand advertising that cannot occur in real world use is it anymore then scummy marketing.

It's quite possible that they're keeping us safer than we imagine.

Wings was looking at input limits, but I'm thinking of the common output amp limit of the board, as well as output voltage limit.

The only numbers I have offhand would be the Asolo 200.
With the specs is has, V max and I think 25A output, to get above 160w you have a fairly narrow 2 or 3 tenths of an ohm window... centered somewhere around 0.2.

So that's certainly "hype", or worse... disingenuousness. Bet hey... they're keeping us safe.

And I correct myself... there's a thread about someone who can't get above ~70w on his Cuboid.
Turns out he's using like a 0.11 build... output amp limit it seems (and/or voltage limit).

Maybe we are fairly safe from the kabooms on regulateds ?
But I don't want to see what happens when one of the limits inevitably fails.

 

[Rizzyking]

I just don't want to be handing concerns to the growing band of anti vape people that are appearing on vape forums and to be honest vapers arguing about various aspects of vaping is counter productive sometimes. We know 200 watts is not attainable safely on 2 18650's and it is wrong for makers to advertise it but in terms of regulated is there a real world problem that is a danger to vapers I have not seen any reports of credible device malfunction from too high watts on dual battery regulated mods. If I had my way no manufactuer would be able to advertise a dual battery mod above 150 watts, but then if I could have my way the idiot brigade on YouTube would be banned as they definitely encourage stupid behaviour.

 

[Jim_ MDP]

All true.

We do have an example of repeated high power causing a failure though (I think).
We have a VTC that melted through the heavy positive wire to the 510 from all day use at ~75w.

Or so it appears.
Don't know the build, but... still within the chip limits?

What is 150w doing in some of these?

 

[retird]

I asked before have there been incidents of regulated pushed too hard causing injury

Google e-cig explosion (one can read/see if regulated or not if the articles specify).... lots to look at and read about...(.not intended to cause "the sky is falling" only posting FYI if you want to google).

 

[Rizzyking]

Googling "ecig explosion" to be honest isn't a good indicator as a lot of results have been created for just that search and I know a few people that were put off after doing just that. I'm sure there may be genuine incidents on there but wading through the stupid user incidents and the incidents antz have created is not exactly fun time passing activity. Across the numerous vaping forums I visit I haven't yet seen much about regulated blowing.

 

[Hyperspace]

YIHI just announced a new battery called SXTesla. It's based off of Nikola Tesla's suppressed wireless technology. It's a true 35A battery that never needs recharging. The battery acts as a radio wave receiver/amplifier. By pushing them into the battery containing the radio wave receiver/amplifier the connection is completed allowing the radio waves that were received from the air by the battery to flow through the receiver/amplifier.

Tesla’s electric battery works much the same way as an electric guitar amplifier. Like the electric guitar amplifier the signal generated by striking a cord (string) of a guitar would travel from the guitar through the wire connecting the guitar to the amplifier and into the amplifier where the barely audible tone would then be amplified.

An electric guitar without an amplifier is essential an air guitar until it is plugged into an amplifier. The amplifier amplifies the sound wave generated by striking the strings of the electric guitar. That is basically how Tesla was able to amplify and convert the invisible electromagnetic radiation called radio waves into electricity to power the battery. The word electricity comes from the fact that current is nothing more than electrons moving along a conductor, like an antenna, that have been harnessed for energy. Tesla used an battery as an amplifier to harness and then amplify energy.

An amplifier’s job is to take a weak audio signal and boost it to generate a signal that is powerful enough to drive a speaker, or in the above case, an battery.

A transistor is a semiconductor device used to amplify and switch electronic signals and power. It is composed of a semiconductor material with at least three terminals for connection to an external circuit. A voltage or current applied to one pair of the transistor’s terminals changes the current flowing through another pair of terminals. Because the controlled (output) power can be higher than the controlling (input) power, a transistor can amplify a signal.

Oh wait a minute... never mind that was a vision I had after reading about Nikola Tesla's wireless electric car.

Nikola Tesla's Wireless Electric Automobile Explained | Free Energy

 

[Jim_ MDP]

It's based off of Nikola Tesla's suppressed wireless technology.

You lost me right there... so I'm glad I scrolled down and saw the punchline.

There was a TED Talk ('14 ?) showing wireless power transfer. Not an inductive pad you set your phone on, but across the room. It's low efficiency and early days, but the concept has potential... maybe.

There's also the occasional accounts of people who have transmission towers crossing their property, laying cable underneath to capture the EMF. Probably a mix of urban myth and fairly useless, but it came to mind.

 

[Hyperspace]

You lost me right there... so I'm glad I scrolled down and saw the punchline.

There was a TED Talk ('14 ?) showing wireless power transfer. Not an inductive pad you set your phone on, but across the room. It's low efficiency and early days, but the concept has potential... maybe.

There's also the occasional accounts of people who have transmission towers crossing their property, laying cable underneath to capture the EMF. Probably a mix of urban myth and fairly useless, but it came to mind.

I got the idea from reading about Nikola Tesla's wireless electric car he invented in 1931. I imagine if he were still around today he could make such a battery. The man was a genius.

Nikola Tesla's Wireless Electric Automobile Explained | Free Energy

 

[Jim_ MDP]

I got the idea from reading about Nikola Tesla's wireless electric car he invented in 1931. I imagine if he were still around today he could make such a battery. The man was a genius.

Nikola Tesla's Wireless Electric Automobile Explained | Free Energy

Sorry... you didn't "get the idea", what you've done is to plagiarize a large chunk of a copyrighted work.
That's a no-no... everywhere. Now that you've identified the source, you should attribute it. Really.

That said... Tesla was an extremely inventive, and creative man, but even he bowed to the Laws of Physics.
The problem I have with all of these proposals, beyond the ignorance of the very real practical difficulties is... no maths. And a general disregard for the realities of the few numbers they do rely on.
Dumbing it down in an effort to claim "conspiracy" and "suppression" is a red flag.
Nothing is being suppressed.

But one only needs to wallow in the constant feed of "free energy" "discoveries" and their "perpetual motion" kin to see. Same as it ever was.

But I still LOL'd at your creative post. Thanks.