The nanny state philosophy is ludicrous. It isn't even their true intention, all Washington cares about is maintaining its hold on power and lining their pockets with the fruits of our labor. Anyway, I have faith in the citizens of the United States.
Health warning from Murray Laugesen
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The nanny state philosophy is ludicrous. It isn't even their true intention, all Washington cares about is maintaining its hold on power and lining their pockets with the fruits of our labor. Anyway, I have faith in the citizens of the United States.
The 'land of the free' is becoming a prison where the state micro-manages your life; where freedom is willingly handed over for supposed security.
Clorox bleach is not a good example. It does not smell good. Children do not see parents drinking Clorox bleach. There is nothing to entice a child to to gulp Clorox. That cannot be said of e-liquid.
I would love to see a hidden camera posted in a house where a parent e-smokes. Leave the e-cig on a table. Pretend to go somewhere. And see what happens if there are children in the house. From 5 to 15, the child will see the e-cig and try it out. How cool is it that mommy can snort vapor from her nose!
These are attractive things. Children see; children do. Bravo to those who do NOT vape in front of children. Your children might pass the "what is it like" test.
But the bottom line is that regulations will address a level of impropriety below what the responsible vapers here have done. Not everyone can be trusted to keep e-liquid out of reach. Other ways must be mandated to prevent tragic accidents.
And, yes, that's worst-case scenario, as one poster suggested. That's how regulations get enacted. I do what I feel is right for me. We all have unique situations to deal with.
I would love to see a hidden camera posted in a house where a parent e-smokes. Leave the e-cig on a table. Pretend to go somewhere. And see what happens if there are children in the house. From 5 to 15, the child will see the e-cig and try it out. How cool is it that mommy can snort vapor from her nose!
These are attractive things. Children see; children do. Bravo to those who do NOT vape in front of children. Your children might pass the "what is it like" test.
But the bottom line is that regulations will address a level of impropriety below what the responsible vapers here have done. Not everyone can be trusted to keep e-liquid out of reach. Other ways must be mandated to prevent tragic accidents.
And, yes, that's worst-case scenario, as one poster suggested. That's how regulations get enacted. I do what I feel is right for me. We all have unique situations to deal with.
agreed, but there are other items that are toxic that do smell pretty decent. Lemon scented and orange scented household cleaners, for example.
Not to be argumentative, but the same could be said for a lit cigarette left in an ashtray with kids in the room. Or grandpa's pipe with that yummy smelling cherry tobacco.
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Listen, I agree! Kids will try what they see parents doing. But with e-liquid, we have a toxic poison where an extremely small amount can kill if ingested. It is different from a cigarette or grandpa's pipe. Yes, kids will pretend to smoke those, or even try to smoke those. They might cough, but they won't die!
Surely no one would suggest it is okay for a child to handle e-liquid, or vape mommy's e-cig.
P.S. Most dangerous products, including your household cleaners, are designed to have such a strong smell when brought directly to the nose area that no one would then consume them. They are purposely made that way, to avoid exactly the type of ingestion we're addressing in this thread. Our liquids cannot be made purposefully distasteful, and fulfill their purpose. So we must childproof the containers. We've rolled the dice too long already ...
Surely no one would suggest it is okay for a child to handle e-liquid, or vape mommy's e-cig.
P.S. Most dangerous products, including your household cleaners, are designed to have such a strong smell when brought directly to the nose area that no one would then consume them. They are purposely made that way, to avoid exactly the type of ingestion we're addressing in this thread. Our liquids cannot be made purposefully distasteful, and fulfill their purpose. So we must childproof the containers. We've rolled the dice too long already ...
I understand your point, but there are ways around it without the government enforcing regulation and taxation (without representation, as we've seen in over the past 97 years) on the devices themselves. As manufacturers develop new cartridge technologies (NOT disposables) the issue will be less controversial, and the free market will decide which products are safest at the discretion of the consumer.
I think a twist-to-lock cartridge or screw-in cartridge is in order, and I've brought this issue up with my manufacturers long before this thread was evoked. If a child was poisoned and/or killed by a product I supplied, I couldn't live with myself. It is absolutely essential the technology to make these products as safe as possible is developed. As far as I am concerned, the less the government meddles in my business, the better off my customers and myself are alike. I urge all suppliers to demand the same from their manufacturers.
They allready have screw-in cartridges for the cigars - surely it can't be all too hard to make those a size smaller (and of course put a ring at the top of the atties).
A workable solution.
The problem at present is that the juice flow is open. Add the big nuisance of ineffective juice flow from cart to atomiser.
Solution: sealed juice viall; contains a tiny valve much like those on analog gas lighters. The viall is refillable.
Juice is supplied in bottles with a similar valve but this time the valve has a protusion. By putting the two together juice drips from the bottle to the viall (by gravity, no pressure involved).
The viall is inserted into the e-cig which opens the valve to allow juice flow from the viall with a tiny tube to a piezi mister element that, when activated, send a fine mist of juice onto the heater coil. So juice flow now electrically controlled and so consistent, not by air flow.
The viall holder and piezo will be between the battery and atomizer. The present cart becomes a short mouthpiece. The viall does not need any filling material and so holds more juice for a given size. The whole assembly is screwed together - no pull-off parts.
Have been suggesting this design for some time.
For the time being, I can envisage juice bottles with same valve still being a good idea because they make extracting the contents nearly impossible for a child. The contents could be extracted by the typical flat-ended syringe or by some small plastc part that fits over the cart and activates the valve allowing drips from the bottle into the cart. A purpose designed mini syringe (1ml) could be made available with a perfect, no leakage, fit with the valve.
Fitting ciggy gas lighter valves into juice bottles would be cheap, feasible and go a long way to make them child-proof, especially if combined with a child-proof lid.
The problem at present is that the juice flow is open. Add the big nuisance of ineffective juice flow from cart to atomiser.
Solution: sealed juice viall; contains a tiny valve much like those on analog gas lighters. The viall is refillable.
Juice is supplied in bottles with a similar valve but this time the valve has a protusion. By putting the two together juice drips from the bottle to the viall (by gravity, no pressure involved).
The viall is inserted into the e-cig which opens the valve to allow juice flow from the viall with a tiny tube to a piezi mister element that, when activated, send a fine mist of juice onto the heater coil. So juice flow now electrically controlled and so consistent, not by air flow.
The viall holder and piezo will be between the battery and atomizer. The present cart becomes a short mouthpiece. The viall does not need any filling material and so holds more juice for a given size. The whole assembly is screwed together - no pull-off parts.
Have been suggesting this design for some time.
For the time being, I can envisage juice bottles with same valve still being a good idea because they make extracting the contents nearly impossible for a child. The contents could be extracted by the typical flat-ended syringe or by some small plastc part that fits over the cart and activates the valve allowing drips from the bottle into the cart. A purpose designed mini syringe (1ml) could be made available with a perfect, no leakage, fit with the valve.
Fitting ciggy gas lighter valves into juice bottles would be cheap, feasible and go a long way to make them child-proof, especially if combined with a child-proof lid.
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I am a huge proponent for safety measures on the bottles, cartridges etc to include proper labeling and some kind of child safety containment.
So we can't compare this to other toxins around the house? Fine. But certainly we can certainly compare these to a pack of cigarettes, a tin of chew, whatever and any smoker who has a half a brain, already puts their cigarettes, lighters and ashtrays away from small prying hands.
To ban the eliquid is also to say that it is ok for the government to ban handles of liquor as it is possible, if a child got a hold of one of those, they would certainly be dead. (and some booze is so flavored with yummy flavors, a kid could down it and enjoy it). And lets face it, most liquor cabinets are in reach of children.
So we can't compare this to other toxins around the house? Fine. But certainly we can certainly compare these to a pack of cigarettes, a tin of chew, whatever and any smoker who has a half a brain, already puts their cigarettes, lighters and ashtrays away from small prying hands.
To ban the eliquid is also to say that it is ok for the government to ban handles of liquor as it is possible, if a child got a hold of one of those, they would certainly be dead. (and some booze is so flavored with yummy flavors, a kid could down it and enjoy it). And lets face it, most liquor cabinets are in reach of children.
I'm not trying to be ugly when I say that only e-materials must be addressed. Forget comparisons to anything. The focus must remain solely on making e-liquid and e-cigs safe from children. It is so wearying to keep reading "compared to this, compared to that" because your government is not going to hear even one word of "comparison". Their focus will be properly narrow.
Kinabaloo has many good ideas, but we need a quick fix NOW. The next generation e-cig devices will no doubt incorporate some of his suggestions. The fact is that childproof devices are available for liquid today. That's a fix that enlightened sellers can implement quickly.
I do believe that any regulations regarding our devices will far exceed even our worst imaginings. Still, I'm hoping for regulations in lieu of an outright ban.
Kinabaloo has many good ideas, but we need a quick fix NOW. The next generation e-cig devices will no doubt incorporate some of his suggestions. The fact is that childproof devices are available for liquid today. That's a fix that enlightened sellers can implement quickly.
I do believe that any regulations regarding our devices will far exceed even our worst imaginings. Still, I'm hoping for regulations in lieu of an outright ban.
TB - Couldn't agree with you more. Do you know how easy it is to get a shipment in, print out labels with warnings, ingredients etc on a nice printer, slap it on the bottle and then put said bottle into a childproofed container?
Every supplier should be taking at least this step. And if you have actual childproof bottles, even better.
I do know that a majority of the suppliers who have been around here for awhile and have listened to the conversations regarding this topic, have already taken these simple steps. There are some great "sharing" threads in the SPF where many have listed what their warnings read so others can use the verbage.
Next stop: Getting the imported liquids to come into the US with childproof bottles already! One less burden for the supplier. (Labels I believe will continue to be an after entry thing for a bit... due to the convenience of being able to produce your own labels and change them based on new warnings that need to be added.)
For those not familiar with dropper bottles, here is a photo I took just now. These have existed for at least 15 years. The one shown contains Bergamot essential oil 10ml and also has a child-proof cap.
This is not a bottle with a dropper, the drip mechanism is built-in to the bottle. Upturning bottle releases one drip.
This is not a bottle with a dropper, the drip mechanism is built-in to the bottle. Upturning bottle releases one drip.
The dripper bottle is ready right now. This not only prevents child access, at least to more than a drop, but also protects against spills by the adult. Add that to child-proof cap and we are already a big step safer. There's no excuse for these measures not being done forthwith.
The valve sealed bottle could be made available quickly and would release nothing at all without applying an adaptor to release drips.
Yesterday I said I wanted juice to continue to be available. So today I put forward these two ideas to make it safer - dripper bottle and bottle with valve. Simple, cheap and effective.
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Cigarette lighter valve photo:
About 7mm longer with a diameter of about 4mm. Is spring loaded and does not require pressure inside the container.
About 7mm longer with a diameter of about 4mm. Is spring loaded and does not require pressure inside the container.
Sorry - originally started posting when you posted the piccie of the bergamot bottle, but you got another post in before I did!
Sorry - originally started posting when you posted the piccie of the bergamot bottle, but you got another post in before I did!
I guess then that you mean child-proof caps.
The dripper bottle is ideal for dripping, not surprisingly, and makes topping up carts easier too and avoids potential for spills.
I find dripping very cumbersome with that kind of bottle (bergamot-bottle). How about the ready-for-use bottles like E-Cig China uses for it's 4ml bottles. It has a longish squirtpiece (about an inch) that is closed with a seperate screwed on cap; and the squirt-on-lid itself is also screwed onto the bottle. So double screwing off needed before it would be possible to empty the whole bottle. But that bottle can be used well with one hand, can be pushed into the cartridge for filling if needed, and gives quite small drops that you can apply much more accurately then the above. Plus it can't break (and you can screw the lid and top on quite firmly, too firm for any small child to open).
Here's the one I mean:
Here's the one I mean:
These bottles are ready to use as-is and are probably available in many sizes; just need to find out who sells them - if e-cig gets their liquid from DeKang, we even have the person who would know right here on the board.
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Can't tell much from the picture on that page. But noticed that the bottle was a minute 4ml - so expensive for such a tiny tiny amount. It is silly to use such small sizes, lots of wasted packaging (but big profits - user loses).
Further down it says that one can gain the benefits of added vitamins from their juice, but in reality these will not vaporise, just burn on the coil (with the possible exception of vitamin E; I think vitamin E will vaporise and can protect against oxidation of the juice prior to use, particularly the 'oily' parts).
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