When should I be replacing/charging my mod batteries? Also, how worried should I be using ICRs?

[vincentp]

I've seen so many different answers to this question throughout my searches that I'm just completely overwhelmed and have no idea which information is correct and which isn't. I guess asking again is probably going to result in the same types of discussions, but here we go anyway.

I just got my first mod (Sigelei Zmax). It came with some Sigelei batteries which I am replacing with better ones ASAP, but until those show up I'm using these. I don't think they are IMRs, unfortunately. The battery says "LiCoO2" and "ICR 18650", so I guess it's an ICR. I don't know why they would not provide IMRs with the device when that seems to be what is recommended. I hope this isn't going to cause any safety issues, even though I should only be on them for a couple of days.

So, the question is, when battery remaining is basically measured in voltage, at what point do I need to be removing these and charging them? The device voltage reading seems to only go down to 3.3v. It will vape at 3.3 briefly, and then the device displays "Low Voltage", at which point I replace them. I've seen people say to charge them at 3.7 (seems ridiculous since this was only about half the usage time of the battery), others say 3.3, still others say it can go all the way down to 3.2, which is the unit's minimum AFAIK.

Knowing that this battery I have is not actually IMR, I'm afraid to drain it too much, so I took them off at like 3.5 today. Once I get my IMRs, what are the acceptable voltage levels? To be clear, I'm not concerned about the batteries losing a bit of their life. I can always buy new ones. I'm mainly concerned about safety. Is it dangerous to let these ICR batteries drop too low? What about the IMRs? Can I safely vape on these down to the point where the unit displays "Low Voltage", or should I be replacing them sooner?

 

[twizted]

ICR batteries I have no idea about. Never had 'em, never seen 'em. IMR on the other hand are good down to 3.2 volts. This is just a guess but if your device is cutting off at a certain voltage and as long as the batteries aren't getting hot, I think you will be fine until you get your IMR batteries. Just don't leave them charging unattended.

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[vincentp]

Thank you. I have made sure they're not charging when I am not around or not home. I'm always nearby the charger in case something happens. When I remove them after the low voltage warning, they're not hot. Maybe a tiny bit warm, but nothing that seems alarming. Hopefully I get my IMRs tomorrow and don't have to be worrying about these things anymore.

 

[DaveP]

ICR is a standard Lithium Ion battery (L-ion). The safer chemistry is IMR Lithium Manganese technology (LiMn). The safety difference is that ICR batteries will heat, swell, and spew when overstressed, sometimes to the point of explosion, while IMR batteries will just get hot and produce a little leakage without the violent failure modes associated with ICR batts.

I try to charge my IMR batteries when they reach 3.5v. Lithium batteries don't like the stress of deep discharge and will last longer if they are kept in the mid range to full charge state.

LiMn is replacing L-ion and we will probably see newer technologies replace both over time.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I, too, got that Sigelei kit at the start of the year..

Used the same PV & batteries..

Did that for like 5 months, with daily use... Pretty much always ran them down to 3.2/3.3 (Low Voltage)...


Was always a little sketched out about the batteries, and did eventually replace them...

Nothing ever "happened," but the 18350 started acting a bit goofy after a while.. The charge wouldn't hold long enough, as I could burn through it in like an hour or 2 of normal vaping (I believe it lasted like 5 hours when brand new), even when freshly-charged at 4.2V..

Unfortunately, they're just not the best type or best quality.. They probably shouldn't be including those in the kit..


You should be fine for now, but would recycle them (for free) once you get your new ones in.. Home Depot, Lowe's, Best Buy, etc.

Rechargeable Battery & Cellphone Dropoff Locations | Call2Recycle | United States

I had contacted them via their chat system.. They said that dropping them off charged or discharged is fine, and just to slap some masking tape or something on the ends..

They accept many kinds of batteries...


Enjoy your Sigelei!

 

[Baditude]

ICR is a standard Lithium Ion battery (L-ion). The safer chemistry is IMR Lithium Manganese technology (LiMn). The safety difference is that ICR batteries will heat, swell, and spew when overstressed, sometimes to the point of explosion, while IMR batteries will just get hot and produce a little leakage without the violent failure modes associated with ICR batts.

I try to charge my IMR batteries when they reach 3.5v. Lithium batteries don't like the stress of deep discharge and will last longer if they are kept in the mid range to full charge state.

LiMn is replacing L-ion and we will probably see newer technologies replace both over time.

I agree with the above. ICR Li-ion batteries should be considered to be obsolete for mod useage, both from a safety perspective as well as from a performance perspective. Li-Mn (IMR and IMR/hybrid) batteries are the only batteries that should be used in this day of modern battery technology. The most up-to-date information about mod batteries can be found in the three links below:

Rechargeable Batteries - written by Rolygate, our ECF forum administrator and battery expert

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR? - written by myself, and referenced by many in the community including PBusardo and Rolygate.

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries - another blog that I wrote with more specific information about mod batteries.
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ICR and IMR batteries can be drained safely to 3.4 volts. Your regulated mod has over-discharge protection in the processor, so when it decides not to fire the batteries any longer (probably 3.4 - 3.5 volts), put them on the charger. Batteries should be routinely measured for voltage both coming off the charger (never more than 4.2 volts) and coming out of the mod (never less than 3.4 volts).

The newer IMR/hybrid batteries (ie Panasonic NCR and Sony VTC series) can be drained even lower to 2.5 volts without harm, however performance below 3.4 volts will be poor in a mod.

 

[DaveP]

vincentp, you can go into the menu on your Sigelei Zmax and set it to display the battery voltage on the LCD display. That way you get constant feedback on the battery voltage and can change the battery when it reaches 3.4v/3.5v. I do that a lot when I'm vaping my Zmax.

I find that my Provari lets me go down to 3.2 volts before shutting down. It starts blinking the LED around 3.3v.

 

[vincentp]

Thanks for all of the information. I just realized that the IMR batteries I have coming are medium drain. I didn't notice that there were two different ones when I bought them. If I'm vaping around 10 watts, is a "medium drain" sufficient for that? I assume it is, since that doesn't seem exceedingly high. I bought some 2200mah AW IMRs, not realizing that they were medium drain and the 1600s were high drain. Hopefully they work all right.

 

[Baditude]

Never heard the term "medium drain" before.

You either have high drain batteries (IMR and IMR/hybrid) or you have low drain (ICR li-ion) batteries, no in between.

It sounds like you might be confusing battery capacity (mah) with being high drain? Nothing could be further from the truth. Battery capacity has little to do with a high drain battery, which deals with the internal resistance of the battery to provide large amounts of burst energy.

Some IMR/IMR Hybrid batteries have higher amps available (20 - 30 amps continuous discharge rate) than others. I've read that the manufacturer of the DNA chip recommends using a high drain battery with at least 12 amps continuous.

 

[vincentp]

Never heard the term "medium drain" before.

You either have high drain batteries (IMR and IMR/hybrid) or you have low drain (ICR li-ion) batteries, no in between.

It sounds like you might be confusing battery capacity (mah) with being high drain? Nothing could be further from the truth. Battery capacity has little to do with a high drain battery, which deals with the internal resistance of the battery to provide large amounts of burst energy.

Some IMR/IMR Hybrid batteries have higher amps available (20 - 30 amps continuous discharge rate) than others. I've read that the manufacturer of the DNA chip recommends using a high drain battery with at least 12 amps continuous.

I'm not entirely sure. That's what the listing said on the website I bought them from. The AW IMR 1600mah product description used the phrase "high drain", and the AW IMR 2000mah or whatever they were used the phrase "medium drain". I hadn't heard it before either, but I'm fairly new to this. Sounds to me like they're the same battery with different capacities and that description is off.

I found a link around here somewhere that had a list of what were supposedly authorized sellers of AW batteries and I purchased from one of them (Vaporkings, since I've used their site before). So hopefully they're genuine AW IMR batteries and the descriptions are just using incorrect terminology.

 

[DaveP]

Just for comparison, here's a chart of battery tests. For meaningful comparison, scroll down to the charts labelled "Discharge Capacity Down to 3.4v" and "Discharge Time in Minutes".

Battery test-review 18650 summary

 

[twizted]

Never heard the term "medium drain" before.

You either have high drain batteries (IMR and IMR/hybrid) or you have low drain (ICR li-ion) batteries, no in between.

It sounds like you might be confusing battery capacity (mah) with being high drain? Nothing could be further from the truth. Battery capacity has little to do with a high drain battery, which deals with the internal resistance of the battery to provide large amounts of burst energy.

Some IMR/IMR Hybrid batteries have higher amps available (20 - 30 amps continuous discharge rate) than others. I've read that the manufacturer of the DNA chip recommends using a high drain battery with at least 12 amps continuous.

I hope I'm not wrong posting this but I think this is where he saw medium drain.
http://www.vaporkings.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BATTERY-18650-RED-2000

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