Water?

[howiez]

Let's Say I have 100ml 36mg 80/20 unflavoured liquid.
I want to cut to 18mg.

I've read that you should 'cut' the VG, but I've also read that you just mix the VG/PG. If I 'cut' the VG with distilled water, is it 20% of the VG amount, or 20% of the total amount, or 20% of the VG/PG amount?

For example:

1) No water: 100ml 36mg + 80ml PG + 20ml VG = 200ml 18mg

2) Water 20% of VG: 100ml 36mg + 80ml + 16ml VG + 4ml distilled water = 200ml 18mg

3) Water 20% of vg/pg: 100ml 36mg + 64ml PG + 16ml VG + 20ml distilled water = 200ml 18mg

Is cutting VG with water optional? Is it recommended? Is it only necessary when using a higher % of VG? At what point would cutting be recommended?

Thanks DIY pros!

 

[aprioristic]

Let's Say I have 100ml 36mg 80/20 unflavoured liquid.
I want to cut to 18mg.

I've read that you should 'cut' the VG, but I've also read that you just mix the VG/PG. If I 'cut' the VG with distilled water, is it 20% of the VG amount, or 20% of the total amount, or 20% of the VG/PG amount?

For example:

1) No water: 100ml 36mg + 80ml PG + 20ml VG = 200ml 18mg

2) Water 20% of VG: 100ml 36mg + 80ml + 16ml VG + 4ml distilled water = 200ml 18mg

3) Water 20% of vg/pg: 100ml 36mg + 64ml PG + 16ml VG + 20ml distilled water = 200ml 18mg

I honestly don't know what other people do and I vape mainly PG.. I do #1 and cut the VG with PG once I have made room in the bottle of VG (which is right away).

This is my first impression: #3 makes no sense at all unless you want 80% VG 20% water. #2 makes no sense unless you refuse to cut your VG with PG, which makes no sense unless you have an allergy to PG.

That being said, I don't see what problem there is with adding water (maybe up to 50/50 with VG) to a mix, just why involve another ingredient when there is no point? People talk about juices becoming too runny, but water is about as runny as PG. The only limit I see to adding water is if the mix wouldn't vaporize.

I guess maybe you could make two arguments for using water (besides PG allergy): It's cheaper than PG or it mellows the vape, but then I personally don't get bothered by PG. If these are valid reasons to use water to you, I guess go #3.

Is cutting VG with water optional?

Yes, I've vaped ~90% VG + 10% PG based flavoring and it was not pleasant. Crazy vapor, but sticky tongue and phlegm.

Is it recommended?Is it only necessary when using a higher % of VG? At what point would cutting be recommended?

Thanks DIY pros!

I suggest cutting it with something since it is such a pain to work with. Let's wait and see what the people who actually vape VG a lot say though.

When I first started DIY, I read people cutting VG with alcohol (more runny than water BTW) at 5%. Then I heard 10% and thought it was the same for water. Now I am hearing 20% this past week. I have to suspect that the people who need 0% PG just find all-VG nasty, but why stop at 20%?.

The aqueous glycerin that P&G sells is 4% water, maybe that is enough to just make it easier to work with. Here's a chart with the viscosity at different temps and % water:

Viscosity of Aqueous Glycerine Solutions

At room temp-ish (30C), 4% water makes the glycerin a little more than half as slimy.

 

[7thCabal]

Why not just use a NO NIC 80pg/20vg blended base to make your cut... combine with nic liquid in equal proportions-- it'll get you the 18mg you're looking for.
unless you don't like the performance characteristics of your liquid-- well then you'd have to experiment on your own to find what you prefer. IMHO both water & alcohol reduce vapor production-- YMMV.

 

[howiez]

Why not just use a NO NIC 80pg/20vg blended base to make your cut... combine with nic liquid in equal proportions-- it'll get you the 18mg you're looking for.
unless you don't like the performance characteristics of your liquid-- well then you'd have to experiment on your own to find what you prefer. IMHO both water & alcohol reduce vapor production-- YMMV.

So what you are saying is that cutting the VG is not mandatory? I'm not going for 100% VG here, I want it to be a 80/20 PG/VG mix when I'm all done. The nic-juice I"m cutting is already 80/20, so I just need to match it with the same ratio. My only concern was whether the 20% VG I'm using needs to be cut with water.

 

[howiez]

OK on the same note, can I test the viscosity before I add the nicotine? Let's say I make just a plain no nic 80/20 mixture PG/VG. Then I vape it to test its vapor and viscosity. When I then add the nicotine, will the fact that there is a nicotine element alter the viscosity & other elements, or is this a fair pre-test?

 

[bigtimeweb]

My only concern was whether the 20% VG I'm using needs to be cut with water.

^^no

If you are a throat hit person you can cut with PGA or vodka to give you some of that. You don't have to cut VG at that ratio though. People cut it for viscosity, but once you are 50/50 or below its a non issue. Your target there is 10-15% of total volume (rather than 20%). so 30ml of final liquid = 27mL of VG and 3mL of water. I prefer VG, and I cut it with distilled water prior to use....I cut it and keep a large quantity in a bottle and just use that and call it good (my version of aqueous VG).

Yes you can test it prior. People normally mix flavors with no nic until they get their recipe down, then modify it to add the nic in for volume to flavor adjustment if necessary. Throwing out a batch of no nic juice whose flavor you messed up is a lot less expensive than involving the more costly nic juice. Nicotine in and of itself isn't going to alter viscosity - it is the liquid carrier ratios. If you add VG nic liquid it would obviously decrease viscosity a bit.

80/20 seems a little heavy on the PG to me personally and is already going to be runny, so I wouldnt worry about it.

 

[Switched]

This might prove of some assistance (especially the tail end of post #4).

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ikenvape/142394-equipment-longevity-vg-liquids.html

Prior to my switch to 100% VG, I did not dilute my VG. I used an 80/20 ratio of PG/VG. Any ratio above that did not work for me, so I kept it at 80/20.

 

[howiez]

My only concern was whether the 20% VG I'm using needs to be cut with water.

^^no


80/20 seems a little heavy on the PG to me personally and is already going to be runny, so I wouldnt worry about it.

I'm curious about 80/20 being too runny now. I'm in contact with several manufactures and their standard unflavoured seems to be 75%-80% PG/VG. I know this is a personal preference thing, but I've never noticed any manufactures e-liquid 'runny' at their pre-mix ratios.

So in a nutshell any VG percentage under 50% need not be cut.

How DOES adding the nic-juice effect the flavour (if at all).

 

[aprioristic]

I'm curious about 80/20 being too runny now.

It isn't. 100% PG vapes fine to me.

So in a nutshell any VG percentage under 50% need not be cut.

I've got no clue where you are getting 50% from. See my first post again. There is no need to use water to cut and whatever you cut with, you don't need nearly 20%. That is just more for people using only VG, which I don't suggest unless you have a PG allergy.

How DOES adding the nic-juice effect the flavour (if at all).

Barely. People describe it as peppery, but even at ~50mg I wouldn't call it pepper, just harsh. Anything 25mg or less with just a drop of flavor and you probably won't notice it.

 

[bigtimeweb]

Howiez I use an ego tank. 100%pg will leak. If you are using carts Im sure its fine, but I like thick vapor, which the VG provides for me. PG tastes chemically to my brain, while VG tastes fluffy. Im all about the fluff If you dig around with search there are a couple threads asking people about the ratio they prefer with pretty good response. VG provides better vapor at the cost of muting flavor a bit (again I prefer), PG is a better carrier for flavor at the cost of vapor. I'm normally a heavy VG, but currently trying a 50/50 and I run through the juice MUCH faster.

Nic juice definitely has a flavor. Take a no nic 80/20 and vape. Then take a 18-24mg 80/20 nic juice and vape. It bites the tongue and also provides some throat hit. If I had to describe it in a word Id say bitter or spicy I guess depending on your tongue, but I agree with Apri - once you add your flavoring at the right percentage its a non-issue.

FWIW there are plenty of places you can get straight VG nic and straight PG nic, but being in Canada you probably dont have a huge choice.

Good luck!

 

[Cowboysnavy]

#2 is exactly how i do it It seems to feed through my cartos better. Now in my attys I just use 50/50 no need to cut it.
sometimes I cut my VG at 85%vg 10% water 5%pga if it's somthing i want a good throat hit in my cartos.
IMO cutting your vg does cut down on the vapor a good amount though.
I hope this helps

 

[howiez]

Thank you for all the responces! I guess a lot will come down to personal preference in the PG/VG ratio I choose. I have tried 100% VG before direct from China and I found it very very thick with little flavour. I think I'll end up being over 50% PG, but maybe drop down to a 2-1 or so ratio.

RE: being in Canada, I have found a few places to go for the basics. Getting flavours has been a bit more difficult. I think I'll probibly have to order them from US and wait patiently for the shipping!

 

[bigtimeweb]

howiez HappyVapor has a great selection of DIY stuff. Some flavors they carry I cant even find in the US.