Vaporesso cCell coils... More dishonesty?

[swayback]

Sorry if this is not the right subforum for this, I'm new here, I lurk and use this vast wonderful forum to educate myself, it's a great resource to the vaping community and I don't contribute much, I apologize for that, but with so many people here with more knowledge than me, it's hard to contribute meaningful info!
Also sorry to go for so long!
Anyway!
I don't really like cotton coils, it's a big sponge that soaks up and spits out any liquid that touches it! I know there's been many attempts at ceramic coils, with little success!
Ceramic heating elements are nothing new, with so many types of ceramic and different ways to manufacture it, it's only a matter of time before someone gets it right!
I for one have looking very forward to that day!
It seems to be upon us!
Vaporesso cCells are on the market, and created a huge buzz, freemax/vapeston fgcc are coming very soon and I trust freemax as a fairly reputable company, vapeston is an offshoot of freemax in a way, so I'll be buying both their coils ASAP!
For now though I've ordered a pack of cCells (kanthol, 0.9 from brads vapors, great seller!)
I've been using them in my starre V3, Heracles and Atlantis, they really work very well, especially for fruit/citrus juices! My favorites! But also creams and such too, I've really not found a juice they don't work well with!
They do flood through the coil and down into the airflow chamber at times, and even at my sweet spot, 30-40 watts, I do seem to get the occasional dry hit, nothing like a full on dry hit from cotton, still nasty! And I think it's actually due to the cotton wrap that we all now know is surrounding the ceramic...but they give great flavor, long life, easy to switch juice with little or no flavor ghosting, never spit back... Basically they work as advertised... Great!
I'm sure most of you have seen the reviews that show cotton inside, even though they claim theyre cotton free coils! I understand why it's there, and it doesn't touch the coils, it doesn't burn as far as I can tell, it just holds the coil in place and acts to prevent the ceramic from wicking too much and flooding, totally understandable!
But still a flat out lie from vaporesso! Generally I think as long as this ceramic is toxin free, they're safe to use, even if they create some "dust" it's going to be contained by the juice that's constantly on the coil, like I said, ceramic heating elements aren't anything new, not even new to the vape game, it's just that so far no ones got it right!
Well I noticed today, after a good week of use, that on top of the ceramic and under it, there's a "silicone like" ring/seal/cushion between the ceramic and the metal frame of the coil. It seems to me this is there as a buffer to prevent the coil from moving around, and banging into the metal frame of the coil head.
I have no clue what this material actually is! I've heard no mention of it in reviews on YouTube or forums, certainly nothing about it on the package or from vaporesso and I spend a lot of time trying to stay caught up with vaping, it's sort my job in a way... In the YouTube vids (there's a few!) we see the coils dismantled several different ways, and it appears that this cushion or gasket is not present in the early batches that were reviewed. I certainly saw no mention of it!
It really concerns me!
It sits directly on the ceramic!
The ceramic certainly must get very hot!
I've dry burned my coils for extended periods of time, this ring/cushion does not appear any different now than it does on my unused cCell coils, so it's definitely not melting under normal use! I did 3 back to back dry burns at 60w for 10 seconds each, as fast as I could! I know that ceramic was hot as blue blazes!
So I'm not totally freaked out or anything, I'm using that same coil now as a matter of fact, and it's as good as it was on day one!
Given vaporessos history of dishonesty, or omission of the whole truth, I'm not sure what to make of this, but as I said, it definitely concerns me!
I quit smoking with vaping for my health and to save money, my body tells me it's working... As does my wallet...but even if this silicone like material isn't burning or melting, it could still be release harmful agents, free radicals etc...

I'd like to know what you fine folks think about this?
For those of you that have cCell coils, check your coils out! Do they also have this cushion of silicone like material?
Do you think it's safe?
I'd like to get to the bottom of this! I've mailed vaporesso, ( good luck with that, I know!) and commented on a few of the YouTube vids about these coils to try to get more info.
I just wish the manufacturers would be more clairvoyant and truthful!
I think as consumers we deserve to know the truth!
Since the main goal of most companies is to separate each of us from as many of our dollars as they can, we clearly need to look out for each other!
Obviously the fda will be
"protecting us" ...from ourselves soon...yay!
Not looking forward to that!

Any help here is much appreciated, feel free to add anything you feel is relevant!

Please pardon me for typing such a long essay...

Thank for reading, and thanks an advance for any responses!

 

[Narmag]

I really would like to see someone comment on this topic. Great job at spotting the silicone ring. Can you redirect me to your youtube videos, so I can see if someone has actually answered or gave opinion on this. Thank you.

 

[swayback]

No one answered on YT
Vaporesso themselves replied and said it was a high temp silicone, like used in pressure cookers... I dunno if it's really safe on not...
There was a lot of .... stirred up about these coils recently by a YT personality, he said some source that would prefer to remain unnamed told him they were dangerous and not to use them. The way he presented it was very wreck less IMO, he stated as if it were fact, but didn't support it with any proof at all, basically just said a guy told me these are really dangerous! Trust me they are! Don't use em!"
Word was that his source was vaporshark. A month later(last week) vaporshark publish the results of their 3rd party testing which basically stated that they ran the vapor from these coil through a filter and found no particulate in the filter! So that calmed some people down, the ceramic isn't turning to dust and finding its way into our lungs! Good!
There was no mention of any other tests done, ones that might find free radicals released from that silicone ring and any other harmful substances relapsed from the ceramic itself, I know there was another
rumor of magnesium oxide being released from it, not sure about the source of that, but the good thing there is that mag ox poisoning isn't a long term build up kind of deal, you intake enough, and you get sick right then and there!
Considering how many people are using, and probably misusing these coils, I think something like that would come to a head quickly!
I'm still using them, honestly with most juice the flavor is outstanding! With some juice, it's unmatched! At least in my experience, my favorite juice tastes so strong, so crisp and pure off these coils that I consider it waste to use it on anything else! I'm not the most experienced vaper by any means, but I've tried it twisted fused claptons, braided micro Claptons, aliens, braids...etc... On any number of atties, and it's just so much better on these coils, and that's at 32 watts, compared to 50-150w that's I've used on the other setups.
I've also just got the freemax ceramic coils, gunna try them soon but I've heard that even though the design is similar (ceramic as a wick, not the heating element) the flavor isn't as good! These freemax coils are made run much hotter! 70-100 sweet spot, do double what the cCell like, and they have huge gauge wire, look like 22g, maybe 20! Whereas the cCell look to have 28. Which explains the difference in the sweet spot. The freemax coils are serious cloud checkers too, but the cCell are no slouch, way more than you'd expect at 30-35w!
Maybe the high wattage and high heat actually affect the flavor negativity, I'm not sure.
I'll soon have a horizon Krixis on the way, which is their answer to the dolphin, cotton wick, ceramic heating element, and the tank and coils seem much nicer than the dolphin!
Again though, I've heard that the flavor is very good, crisp, pure intense, same way I'd describe the cCell flavor, but then some reviewers still swear the cCell gives them the best flavor of any ceramic and/or any other vaping method...we shall see!
Obviously I'm all for innovation when it comes to vaping juice!
I think it's taken for grant that wire and cotton coils are safe, just because it's what we've been limited to for so long I don't think anyone questions it, I certainly do! But just like ceramic, there's a massive lack of real scientific study on the subject, which is really a shame! With ceramic it's fairly new, so there's a valid excuse, but cotton and wire have been around for long enough that it should be studied over and over.,. Which I'm afraid is about to happen.
Once the govt starts regulations, there will numerous studies.., and I'm sure they'll be oh so honest, fair and not slanted! Yea right!

 

[Bad Ninja]

Cotton is a wick. Ceramic is a wick.
The coil is made of resistance wire.

The cotton in those Vapresso ceramic heads help Keep the ceramic moist, then the coil heats the juice on the ceramic wick.

 

[crxess]

Did you not get the Memo - Testing proved the coils within safe limits for usage.

You are NOT supposed to DRY BURN the cCells. Not maybe, but Do Not - per Manufacturer.
Soak to clean or replace.

All this was hashed out last week. Should have been here. Great party.

Or are you just having panic attacks.
Twice you have mentioned how the government will this and that. Maybe, maybe not.

Simplest solution to a concern is Don't. If cCells concern you, put them away until you are comfortable they are safe.

No one will twist your arm to use cCells, Vape or even return to smoking. The choices are yours.

 

[swayback]

Cotton is a wick. Ceramic is a wick.
The coil is made of resistance wire.

The cotton in those Vapresso ceramic heads help Keep the ceramic moist, then the coil heats the juice on the ceramic wick.

Yes, both the cotton and the ceramic serve as a wick in these coils, the ceramic is very porous, according to the manufacturer the cotton is actually there to limit the amount of wicking to the ceramic, apparently it is so porous that it wicks too much, and flows right through which flood the coil, it also serves as a buffer to keep the ceramic in place, centered and not bang
around inside the coil head, I'm sure if it did that it would chop the ceramic and release fine dust.
I'm a little surprised that the cotton is used to limit the wicking, like yourself, I wouldn't have thought the ceramic would wick to the point of flooding the coil, and honestly I can't say one way or the other, I'm just going on what the manufacturer says... But it is a very porous ceramic, so it is believable... Cotton is like a sponge, once it soaks up enough to be full, it stops unless there a vacuum or pressure, ceramic isn't at like that, it more like a permeable membrane, so I guess I could see it wicking too much, or rather allowing liquid to simply pass through it continuously.

As much as I enjoy rebuildables, I enjoy hassle free vaping, and excellent flavor, I think that if companies focus on ceramic, or other similar materials, that a more hassle free experience can be achieved! Not to mention that the life span of it could surpass cotton 1000x over, a that and better flavor... I'm in!
I'll still buy and use wick n wire, but mostly because it's fun and lows my to customize my vape, but I can't see the future, who knows what innovation may be around the corner if free market is allowed to push vaping forward at the vape we're seeing now... Maybe rebuildables and ceramic can be a reality... Just have to wait and see!
I feel like I'm generally intelligent and knowable enough about materials, that if I tinker with items, follow up with some research that I'm perfectly comfortable trying out new things like this.
We live in a risky world, I hear reviewers say vape ceramic at your own risk a lot...it's true but I feel like it's more like, vape at your own risk, use a certain wire at your own risk, or batteries, or a mod, or a function of a mod...
Life itself is a risk, and really if you think about it, the risk isn't even over when your life is!

I know that cigs were putting my life at serious risk! And I don't think anything I've done that involved vaping was nearly as risky as smoking... But then again I do my homework...
Now to vape this herakles on my noisy cricket, with the one battery in upside down
Serious don't be an idiot and do that!
Do your homework!

 

[swayback]

Did you not get the Memo - Testing proved the coils within safe limits for usage.

You are NOT supposed to DRY BURN the cCells. Not maybe, but Do Not - per Manufacturer.
Soak to clean or replace.

All this was hashed out last week. Should have been here. Great party.

Or are you just having panic attacks.
Twice you have mentioned how the government will this and that. Maybe, maybe not.

Simplest solution to a concern is Don't. If cCells concern you, put them away until you are comfortable they are safe.

No one will twist your arm to use cCells, Vape or even return to smoking. The choices are yours.

Yea I guess no one sent that memo to me... Guess it's not ok to to respond in my own thread...

 

[Douggro]

The cotton in those Vapresso ceramic heads help Keep the ceramic moist, then the coil heats the juice on the ceramic wick.

I'm guessing that the cotton is more of a wicking "moderator" to keep the ceramic saturated and prevent flooding.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Yes, both the cotton and the ceramic serve as a wick in these coils, the ceramic is very porous, according to the manufacturer the cotton is actually there to limit the amount of wicking to the ceramic, apparently it is so porous that it wicks too much, and flows right through which flood the coil, it also serves as a buffer to keep the ceramic in place, centered and not bang
around inside the coil head, I'm sure if it did that it would chop the ceramic and release fine dust.
I'm a little surprised that the cotton is used to limit the wicking, like yourself, I wouldn't have thought the ceramic would wick to the point of flooding the coil, and honestly I can't say one way or the other, I'm just going on what the manufacturer says... But it is a very porous ceramic, so it is believable... Cotton is like a sponge, once it soaks up enough to be full, it stops unless there a vacuum or pressure, ceramic isn't at like that, it more like a permeable membrane, so I guess I could see it wicking too much, or rather allowing liquid to simply pass through it continuously.

As much as I enjoy rebuildables, I enjoy hassle free vaping, and excellent flavor, I think that if companies focus on ceramic, or other similar materials, that a more hassle free experience can be achieved! Not to mention that the life span of it could surpass cotton 1000x over, a that and better flavor... I'm in!
I'll still buy and use wick n wire, but mostly because it's fun and lows my to customize my vape, but I can't see the future, who knows what innovation may be around the corner if free market is allowed to push vaping forward at the vape we're seeing now... Maybe rebuildables and ceramic can be a reality... Just have to wait and see!
I feel like I'm generally intelligent and knowable enough about materials, that if I tinker with items, follow up with some research that I'm perfectly comfortable trying out new things like this.
We live in a risky world, I hear reviewers say vape ceramic at your own risk a lot...it's true but I feel like it's more like, vape at your own risk, use a certain wire at your own risk, or batteries, or a mod, or a function of a mod...
Life itself is a risk, and really if you think about it, the risk isn't even over when your life is!

I know that cigs were putting my life at serious risk! And I don't think anything I've done that involved vaping was nearly as risky as smoking... But then again I do my homework...
Now to vape this herakles on my noisy cricket, with the one battery in upside down
Serious don't be an idiot and do that!
Do your homework!

I'm lost in that Great Wall of text but I'll try to reply as best I can.

Let me preface all this by saying I don't use prebuilt coils beyond the freebies I've won here on ECF, such as the Vapresso tank and ceramic wick coil head.

You incorrectly referred to the ceramic wick as a coil. I was pointing out an area which has previously caused confusion, with other vapers.

I wasn't impressed with the Vapresso ceramic wick coil heads at all. I found the flavor muted through the first tank, the second was better, then progressively muted until the coil gunked up.
The tank itself worked okay and didn't leak.
If it had a decent RBA head they would sell a lot more of them.

 

[crxess]

I'm guessing that the cotton is more of a wicking "moderator" to keep the ceramic saturated and prevent flooding.

It is an intermediated liner between the Ceramic and slots to keep the coil from flooding out. Liquid feeds through the cotton layer to the coil(disc) similar to the wrap around a conventional Vertical coil.
Without the wrap liquid would freely flow into the air chamber.

* Interesting note:
ALL MSDS data has been moved/removed from their site.

 

[stylemessiah]

The only problem is theyre obfuscaters at very least, at worst patently dishonest, at least in their earlier initial marketing banging on about cotton free coils...and how you could dry burn the coils to make them "last forever"

Neither of which is actually true.

Once you lie to me, i dont trust you, and stick your hype up your bottom when you cant back it up.

 

[Chris Williams]

This is my first post so it might as well be about the Vaporesso cCell. I've tried my share of tanks and rta's and always ended up going back to my drippers. This is the first coil that has inspired me to buy more than one refill pack of coils. The flavor is great and I've seen much longer coil life. I'm pretty much a chain vaper so I didn't get weeks of use out of the coil but it definitely lasted about three times as long as my aspire and delta coils. I'd recommend!

 

[XXFa113nXX]

Is it just me or do the ccells have a very noticeable air restriction? I wasn't impressed really. But the freemax Scylla ceramic coils I do like. Heat the tank up a little too fast for me but great step in the right direction. Would love TC for ceramic coils. Can't wait for that

I am a vaping metalhead

 

[crxess]

Is it just me or do the ccells have a very noticeable air restriction? I wasn't impressed really. But the freemax Scylla ceramic coils I do like. Heat the tank up a little too fast for me but great step in the right direction. Would love TC for ceramic coils. Can't wait for that

I am a vaping metalhead

If you are used to more air flow - yes
If you are not - No



Ni200 - TC coils and Kanthal Coils

 

[XXFa113nXX]

If you are used to more air flow - yes
If you are not - No

Yeah I'm a bit of a cloud chaser. Love the direct lung hits a lil too much. Lol

I am a vaping metalhead

 

[MacTechVpr]

Nice design for their tank. I would have questions on the "ceramic" specification (composition). I see virtually nada about this among the various makers over the flock of new vertical coil composite ceramic wick coils being rolled out. A year or so ago there would have been hundreds of threads on this topic here and on venues all over the internet. Lot of new vapers since then may not know that. We're not taking the interest we once were in the materials aspects of the atomizer and vaporization. Some good points were made here.

Nothing can give a tank the versatility of performance for every kind of resistance (temperature), juice and vapor production than an open system. They can try to anticipate what we like but as they say…nobody does it better than you can when it comes to your own tastes. Where vaping is concerned there's no such thing as one-size-fits-all.

Good luck all.