Thoughts on Beginning to Extract Tobacco Flavors

[PapawBrett]

This is for all of the political @$$#0!&$ who want to ruin my life !
Just kidding ! Actually, I am thinking about the newest public/ media attacks on the vaping community. There may be more people than before wondering if DIY methods for Natually Extracted tobacco is worth the trouble...
When I started about three years ago, the mantra was "READ". And that still holds true. Maybe when I get time I can link a few threads to help with that.
I personally would ask a newcomer to NETs "Can you accept failure ?". At least half of my extractions did not meet with my expectations, or approval.
With a wide range of tobacco products available, you are not required to vape cigarette products, although you can if you want to. Pipe Tobacco Flavors are in the hundreds. Tobacco Blends, Flavored Tobaccos, Single Leaf Tobacco.... Your possibilities are basically limited to whatever restrictions you place upon yourself.
With a little research, a little planning, careful effort and plenty of patience, you could be enjoying your own NET Flavors for less than $100 start up cost, and roughly 4 cents a ml afterwards.
You could do this. Just set your mind to it, research what you are about to try, and exercise a good deal of patience.
Anyone experienced in NET extractions is welcome to offer their advise to those who might be thinking of giving to this a try.

 

[PapawBrett]

If you are going to try to extract flavors from tobaccos, you will need certain equipment. The equipment you will need depends on what extraction process you are willing to try.
The two most basic and time-tested methods for extracting tobacco flavors by DIY'ers are Cold Maceration and Heat Extraction. The method you choose will depend on your lifestyle and hobbyist inclinations.
Here is a link to a thread started by longtime NET enthusiast Str8vision, where he describes extracting tobacco flavors involving steady, monitored heating of 1/2 pint Mason Jars containing tobacco and Ethanol. This process is effective, and only takes maybe 24 hours to complete. But it does required attention to detail.

Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

And here is a link to a thread started three years ago when I first started extracting my own NETs using cold maceration. As a Career Trucker, I don't have a lot of free time, so this method works for me. Set 'em up and forget 'em for three months, storing in a cool, dark place (the top shelf of the bedroom closet works for me)

Extended Cold Maceration ?

Another member, YearsofCigars, has recently been posting of extractions with water. He also has developed a centrifuge method for filtering, and his experiences are posted in this forum.

NET - Water Based Extractions (work in progress..)

The amount of time and money you have to offer could help you decide which method would be best for you. Heated Ethanol works exceptionally well, but without expensive lab equipment the home enthusiast will have to continually monitor the temperatures for about a 12 hour period (or all day). Extraction by cooling overnight in a freezer is rather simplified. But in about one full day you can have your own NET flavors.
Cold Maceration is simple and easy. Filtration is a little more difficult, but a day at the kitchen counter gives me a dozen new NET extracts.
I am not familiar with the methods YearsofCigars has posted, or the forum he links to often, but there does appear to be a substantial amount of information available he provides.

There are hundreds of threads on the topic of NET Extracts here in this sub-forum. Many are "What Do I DO Now ?" threads, and they almost always are answered by experienced NET Hunters. I really recommend taking at least a few hours to peruse this sub-forum before you begin. Plan out what you about to try. And Good Luck.

 

[PapawBrett]

I suppose we should at least try to discuss the Tobacco itself. Using various internet sources, and my own limited experiences, I will at least try to put up some information on the processing and types of tobaccos. I am not an expert in this field, so feel free to comment if you disagree.
Fire Cured Tobacco is a hearty tobacco grown on fertile soils, then during the curing process is hung of smoldering fires. This smoke effect produces a robust flavor.
Flue Cured Tobacco (also called Bright leaf Tobacco) is a milder tobacco, usually grown on sandy soils. The Sandhills of the Appalachian Piedmont is a region suited for this type of tobacco. The tobacco itself is a weaker variety than Fire Cured tobaccos, then the leafs are cured without the smoke effect. This produces a mild, clean tobacco.
Cavendish is a process of tobacco harvesting where the leafs are cured and then pressed into cake form, and then sliced. This is to bring out the sweeter qualities of the tobacco.

Virginia tobaccos are grown along the southeastern US, and are a Flue Cured, or Bright, variety. This tobacco tends to be milder, and sweeter than most other types. It is the most common tobacco in the world, and chances are you've already experienced this through smoking or vaping.
Burley are specifically grown and processed to eliminate the natural sugars that occur in some tobaccos. There are some who claim that Burley tobacco has a slightly nutty taste. Usually grown in a stretch of the US from Virginia and North Carolina westward to Missouri, but mostly grown in Kentucky.
Oriental tobacco is a small leaf variety grown in Turkey, Lebanon, Greece, Macedonia and Bulgaria. The leaf is sun cured when harvested. Commonly used in cigarette production, and considered to be a milder tobacco.
Latakia is an Oriental tobacco grown in Cyprus and Syria. The harvesting process includes sun curing, then barn curing the dried leaves over smoking wood and herbs to give it a distinct and powerful flavor. Most would consider this variety too strong to smoke by itself, Latakia is commonly used in English Blends of tobacco.
Perique is a rare and specific tobacco grown in the St. James Parrish of Louisiana. The harvested leaves are partially air cured, then packed into old whiskey barrels and pressed hard to remove the air. One Year later the tobacco is removed and prepared for consumption. Often blended with a Virginia tobacco to form what many call a "VaPer Blend".
Connecticut or "Shade" tobacco is grown beneath tents in Connecticut and Massachusetts. This method produces a light colored leaf that is used as a wrapper leaf on fine hand-rolled cigars. It is a mild and pleasant tobacco.
Corojo is another cigar tobacco that originated in Cuba, but is extensively grown in Honduras, the Dominican Republic and Kentucky today. Used primarily as a wrapper leaf, it is said to have a peppery taste.
Criollo is believed to be the Original Cuban tobacco. The term Criollo means native seed. It has been the primary tobacco for Cuban cigars, and is still the filler tobacco with the Corojo wrapper. Crillo is also produced in Nicaragua.
Habana is a cigar wrapper leaf that is grown from Cuban seed in Nicaragua. A dark, spicy tobacco leaf that is used in Cigars and occasionally in pipe tobaccos.
Maduro is a process for making the tobacco leaves sweeter. Aging under high temperature and humidity, these sweetened leaves are commonly used as wrappers for cigars.

From my own personal experiences, Virginia (or bright leaf) tobacco is the base used for all pipe tobaccos, usually somewhere around 40%. The blend of tobacco from that point depends on whatever the maker is striving for. Dunhill's Early Morning, an English blend, adds Oriental and Latakia. Home & Hearth Louisiana Red and Anniversary Kake are VaPer blends where Perique is added to the Virginia tobacco. Many of the cased, or flavored tobaccos, such as Sutliff's Molto Dulce or Decatur's Black Cherry, will blend Virginia, Burley and a Cavendish together and then spray a light mist of flavoring over the tobacco to give it a 'top note'. Other still will take a Virginia then add a small amount of a different tobacco for flavor, such as Peter Stokkebye's 84 Turkish, or Home & Hearth's Virginia Spice. There are literally hundreds of tobacco blends out there, and I cannot tell you which you might like, Some trial and error is to be expected. But within a dozen or so attempts of various blends you should know where your own personal tastes lean.
Perhaps this is why many NET DIY'ers refer to themselves as "NET Hunters", as we are always looking for that next great vaping experience.
Happy Hunting.

 

[PapawBrett]

Next, a few thoughts on Research and Purchasing. Let's suppose you have decided what Extraction Method you are willing to pursue, and you've got a case of 12 half pint Mason Jars (Was Mart) for your Extractions. Obviously, if you are using twelve jars you will not need to purchase 100 tobaccos. Limit yourself to the number of jars you will be using. 12 Mason Jars of extract will not only last me a full year or two, but I wind up giving at least half of my extracts away to friends here on the ECF. You will wind up with more than you need.
Carefully research the types of tobaccos out there. I would recommend the new NET Hunter try several different types of tobacco blends. When I first started, Voodoo Queen was the rage among Latakia lovers. But it was way too strong for me. Maybe Dunhill's Early Morning or Dunhill's Nightcap would be a better introduction into English Blends.
VaPer blends are also a favorite among NET Hunters. H&H Louisiana Red is a popular choice there, and H&H Anniversary Kake is another good VaPer. Peter Stokkebye's 84 Turkish is a good introduction to Oriental tobaccos. Flavored Tobaccos can also be extracted, but Citrus Flavors usually don't do well. Also, it has been my experience that 'Aromatic' blends usually don't fare well when using PG Cold Maceration, as the flavor fades quickly. Perhaps using Heated Ethanol would be better for Aromatic blends.
I cannot tell you which you would prefer. You will have to find this out for yourself. Here is a link to a website that is strictly set up for tobacco reviews by smokers :
TobaccoReviews.com: The largest collection of pipe tobacco reviews on the internet.
Yes, it can seem a little too much with all of the different blends available. bUt you't have to read each and every review. You just need to decide which type of tobacco you want to try next.
I personally shop at pipesandcigars.com. Their 'Bulk Tobacco' selections come in one once packaging which is just right for a half-pint Mason jar. P&C also allows you to filter your options by several methods - by choosing non-aromatics and four star ratings (by customers) I can reduce 460 products to 110 choices. Then I can review the selections to decide if I would like to try them or not. There are other online vendors out there, many are discussed throughout this forum.
A personal note ; there is such a thing as a Tobacco Beetle. They lay their larvae into the tobacco leaf. But the Tobacco Beetle larvae cannot mature below 72*F. This is why Humidors are kept cool and dry. As long as the tobacco is kept cool, the larvae cannot hatch. This is why I place my orders in the dead of winter (January, February) during a cold spell. Overkill ? Maybe, but I want to enjoy the tobacco flavor at it's finest.
To the newcomer I would recommend ordering several different types of tobacco blends. English, VaPer, Flavored, Oriental. Also try different strengths - mild to medium, medium and full flavored. You will not like them all, but by finding one or two you do like you can then pursue that flavor profile across multiple makers, blends, and flavors. Once you have established the types of tobaccos you favor, the process becomes a lot more enjoyable.

 

[PapawBrett]

FILTRATION IS KEY ! As discussed in a thread I previously linked to, @Str8vision has developed a method of Heated Ethanol Extraction that includes overnight cooling in the Family Freezer to remove unwanted oils and particles. And CigarsforYears has shown a method of filtering that uses centrifugal force.
Whichever method you use, Tobacco Extracts are notorious for oils and sediments. Unless you are using expensive lab equipment featuring vacuum assisted filtration, this is the breaking point for too many NET trials. Improperly filtered NET liquids result in what is called a "Gunky" liquid. The sediments and particles with blacken your wicks and ruin your coils in as little as a tankful, ruining the flavor you were pursuing as well. Filtering your extracts properly is a MUST if you are going to continue to pursue your own NET flavors.
Using Cold Maceration with PG as an extraction method, I use a manual method of filtering involving an Aeropress coffee maker. These can be purchased at Amazon for about $30.
The filter papers that come with this device are adequate for coffee, but not for tobacco extractions. I learned the hard way that 2 macron filter paper is what is needed. These papers can be found at Thomas Scientific. I cut mine to match the size of the filter basket on the bottom of the aero press. First I use a 2 quart pitcher and a funnel I purchased online, with a common coffee filter to strain out the extract form the tobacco into a quart mason jar. Then I filter the extract through the aero press twice. Once with the filter paper that came with the aero press, and a final time slowly easing the extract through the lab paper. This filters the extract down to as clean as I can get it. Mixing at 10% flavor, the finished e-liquid gives me all the flavor I desire, and my coils will last for at least 10ml of vaping.
I should note that Flavored Tobaccos (cherry, vanilla, etc.) will not be as clean as blended tobaccos (84 Turkish, Louisiana Red, etc.). Either way, you must find a filtration process that suits you if you are going to make your own NET flavors.

 

[PapawBrett]

And Finally... Mixing ! There are a few Hearty Souls who will mix Latakia Blends at 25%. To each their own. But if you are just starting out, I would recommend starting at 10%, and allow the mixture to steep three to four weeks. I feel this is a good starting point. Mixing small samples (10ml) will allow you to test your creations. I personally mix H&H Louisiana Red at 8%, Decatur Black Cherry at 10%, and Peter Stokkebye's 84 Turkish at 15%. This does not mean I am "doing it right", it is just mixed to my personal preferences after several trials.
Remember, the more extract you put into your mix, then you are likely adding more sediments and particles that are common with homemade NET flavors. This is why I prefer squonker mods with simple, easy to clean RBA's for my NET flavors. Regular cleaning is a necessity with your gear if you are vaping homemade NET's. Complicated multi piece tanks can be used, but you will still have to clean them regularly. Cleaner NET flavors and clean equipment provide the vaping experience you were looking for when you began this journey.
Good Luck, and Happy Hunting !

 

[CAAB]

All in all, a good summary from PapawBrett. Great breakdown of extraction methods, tobacco leaf types, and mods.

My two cents here: I have found that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. I have tried PGA (pure grain alcohol) extracts followed by freeze filtering with dry ice, I've tried distilled water extracts, I've tried PG extracts, and combo VG/PGA extracts.

My personal results have deviated from what I've read from other users. I intend on reporting on it in more detail when I have results from some long-term extracts. Approximately 8 months from now.

Generally, I would advise to start by finding yourself a good NET commercial vendor to tie you over while your own extracts are in the works. Good NET takes time, and nothing sucks more than waiting empty handed. The first 6 months - 1 year is very difficult.

Next, I would start small in your NET experiments. Invest in a gallon of PG, VG, and PGA. Get a lot of 4oz canning jars. Buy a good selection of blended pipe tobaccos from Pipes & Cigars or a similar vendor. Get a small selection of cased pipe tobaccos and pipe tobaccos without casings. Get a few cigars as well to cut up and put in a jar. If you're feeling ambitions, go to LeafOnly and poke around, get whatever strikes your fancy. Get a good Virginia, Burley, Latakia, Dark Fired Kentucky, Perique, Oriental. For extra credit, get a variety of cigar leaf tobaccos. I found that blending your own cigar leaf extracts can result in something amazing.

Cut up anything that isn't cut up already and start putting them in your 4oz jars. Don't stuff the jars. You want them nice and fluffy. For every tobacco, you want 3 jars. One with PG, one with straight PGA 190 proof, and another with VG/PGA. In the VG/PGA jar, the idea is to add enough PGA to get the solvent the consistency of PG. VG on it's own is too viscous to filter later on.

For the jars with straight PGA, you can hot bump them if you want, as outlined by Str8vision. Followed by freeze filtering. I think you'll get the best luck with this method for cased tobaccos.

I advise hot bumping the PG and the VG/PGA jars at 110 degrees F for 8 hours. But feel free to just shelve them cold. For the PG and the VG/PGA jars, shelve them for at least 6 months. The cigars should sit for a year.

After 6 months - 1 year, filter the tobacco leaves and bits out using lab filters, coffee filters, polyester filter felt, whatever you want to try. I personally use 1 micron polyester filter felt. there are a lot of forum posts outlining various filtration methods.

Now you have a broad sample of tobaccos in PG, PGA, and PG. Now you decide what you like best. Once you find what you like, then get the big mason jars and up your production.

Regarding distilled water extracts, I generally advise against it. It requires special attention and is easy to get wrong and make you sick. Water has no bactericidal or bacteriostatic properties.

Basically what I'm getting at is that if you don't try different methods you don't know what you're missing. If you want to be simple stupid though, just take whatever tobacco you know you already like, make sure it's chopped up, and put in jar of PG. Six months later, filter it out the tobacco leaves, and you have yourself an NET extract, ready for adding VG/PG/Nic to.

NET is about the journey. Learn to enjoy the process and be patient.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

All in all, a good summary from PapawBrett. Great breakdown of extraction methods, tobacco leaf types, and mods.

My two cents here: I have found that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. I have tried PGA (pure grain alcohol) extracts followed by freeze filtering with dry ice, I've tried distilled water extracts, I've tried PG extracts, and combo VG/PGA extracts.

My personal results have deviated from what I've read from other users. I intend on reporting on it in more detail when I have results from some long-term extracts. Approximately 8 months from now.

Generally, I would advise to start by finding yourself a good NET commercial vendor to tie you over while your own extracts are in the works. Good NET takes time, and nothing sucks more than waiting empty handed. The first 6 months - 1 year is very difficult.

Next, I would start small in your NET experiments. Invest in a gallon of PG, VG, and PGA. Get a lot of 4oz canning jars. Buy a good selection of blended pipe tobaccos from Pipes & Cigars or a similar vendor. Get a small selection of cased pipe tobaccos and pipe tobaccos without casings. Get a few cigars as well to cut up and put in a jar. If you're feeling ambitions, go to LeafOnly and poke around, get whatever strikes your fancy. Get a good Virginia, Burley, Latakia, Dark Fired Kentucky, Perique, Oriental. For extra credit, get a variety of cigar leaf tobaccos. I found that blending your own cigar leaf extracts can result in something amazing.

Cut up anything that isn't cut up already and start putting them in your 4oz jars. Don't stuff the jars. You want them nice and fluffy. For every tobacco, you want 3 jars. One with PG, one with straight PGA 190 proof, and another with VG/PGA. In the VG/PGA jar, the idea is to add enough PGA to get the solvent the consistency of PG. VG on it's own is too viscous to filter later on.

For the jars with straight PGA, you can hot bump them if you want, as outlined by Str8vision. Followed by freeze filtering. I think you'll get the best luck with this method for cased tobaccos.

I advise hot bumping the PG and the VG/PGA jars at 110 degrees F for 8 hours. But feel free to just shelve them cold. For the PG and the VG/PGA jars, shelve them for at least 6 months. The cigars should sit for a year.

After 6 months - 1 year, filter the tobacco leaves and bits out using lab filters, coffee filters, polyester filter felt, whatever you want to try. I personally use 1 micron polyester filter felt. there are a lot of forum posts outlining various filtration methods.

Now you have a broad sample of tobaccos in PG, PGA, and PG. Now you decide what you like best. Once you find what you like, then get the big mason jars and up your production.

Regarding distilled water extracts, I generally advise against it. It requires special attention and is easy to get wrong and make you sick. Water has no bactericidal or bacteriostatic properties.

Basically what I'm getting at is that if you don't try different methods you don't know what you're missing. If you want to be simple stupid though, just take whatever tobacco you know you already like, make sure it's chopped up, and put in jar of PG. Six months later, filter it out the tobacco leaves, and you have yourself an NET extract, ready for adding VG/PG/Nic to.

NET is about the journey. Learn to enjoy the process and be patient.

Excellent post

 

[GOMuniEsq]

I suppose we should at least try to discuss the Tobacco itself. Using various internet sources, and my own limited experiences, I will at least try to put up some information on the processing and types of tobaccos. I am not an expert in this field, so feel free to comment if you disagree.
Fire Cured Tobacco is a hearty tobacco grown on fertile soils, then during the curing process is hung of smoldering fires. This smoke effect produces a robust flavor.
Flue Cured Tobacco (also called Bright leaf Tobacco) is a milder tobacco, usually grown on sandy soils. The Sandhills of the Appalachian Piedmont is a region suited for this type of tobacco. The tobacco itself is a weaker variety than Fire Cured tobaccos, then the leafs are cured without the smoke effect. This produces a mild, clean tobacco.
Cavendish is a process of tobacco harvesting where the leafs are cured and then pressed into cake form, and then sliced. This is to bring out the sweeter qualities of the tobacco.

Virginia tobaccos are grown along the southeastern US, and are a Flue Cured, or Bright, variety. This tobacco tends to be milder, and sweeter than most other types. It is the most common tobacco in the world, and chances are you've already experienced this through smoking or vaping.
Burley are specifically grown and processed to eliminate the natural sugars that occur in some tobaccos. There are some who claim that Burley tobacco has a slightly nutty taste. Usually grown in a stretch of the US from Virginia and North Carolina westward to Missouri, but mostly grown in Kentucky.
Oriental tobacco is a small leaf variety grown in Turkey, Lebanon, Greece, Macedonia and Bulgaria. The leaf is sun cured when harvested. Commonly used in cigarette production, and considered to be a milder tobacco.
Latakia is an Oriental tobacco grown in Cyprus and Syria. The harvesting process includes sun curing, then barn curing the dried leaves over smoking wood and herbs to give it a distinct and powerful flavor. Most would consider this variety too strong to smoke by itself, Latakia is commonly used in English Blends of tobacco.
Perique is a rare and specific tobacco grown in the St. James Parrish of Louisiana. The harvested leaves are partially air cured, then packed into old whiskey barrels and pressed hard to remove the air. One Year later the tobacco is removed and prepared for consumption. Often blended with a Virginia tobacco to form what many call a "VaPer Blend".
Connecticut or "Shade" tobacco is grown beneath tents in Connecticut and Massachusetts. This method produces a light colored leaf that is used as a wrapper leaf on fine hand-rolled cigars. It is a mild and pleasant tobacco.
Corojo is another cigar tobacco that originated in Cuba, but is extensively grown in Honduras, the Dominican Republic and Kentucky today. Used primarily as a wrapper leaf, it is said to have a peppery taste.
Criollo is believed to be the Original Cuban tobacco. The term Criollo means native seed. It has been the primary tobacco for Cuban cigars, and is still the filler tobacco with the Corojo wrapper. Crillo is also produced in Nicaragua.
Habana is a cigar wrapper leaf that is grown from Cuban seed in Nicaragua. A dark, spicy tobacco leaf that is used in Cigars and occasionally in pipe tobaccos.
Maduro is a process for making the tobacco leaves sweeter. Aging under high temperature and humidity, these sweetened leaves are commonly used as wrappers for cigars.

From my own personal experiences, Virginia (or bright leaf) tobacco is the base used for all pipe tobaccos, usually somewhere around 40%. The blend of tobacco from that point depends on whatever the maker is striving for. Dunhill's Early Morning, an English blend, adds Oriental and Latakia. Home & Hearth Louisiana Red and Anniversary Kake are VaPer blends where Perique is added to the Virginia tobacco. Many of the cased, or flavored tobaccos, such as Sutliff's Molto Dulce or Decatur's Black Cherry, will blend Virginia, Burley and a Cavendish together and then spray a light mist of flavoring over the tobacco to give it a 'top note'. Other still will take a Virginia then add a small amount of a different tobacco for flavor, such as Peter Stokkebye's 84 Turkish, or Home & Hearth's Virginia Spice. There are literally hundreds of tobacco blends out there, and I cannot tell you which you might like, Some trial and error is to be expected. But within a dozen or so attempts of various blends you should know where your own personal tastes lean.
Perhaps this is why many NET DIY'ers refer to themselves as "NET Hunters", as we are always looking for that next great vaping experience.
Happy Hunting.

Fantastic! These descriptions call to mind a time in the distant past when we had access to specific tobacco varietals, before legislation and corporate branding obscured them all. This list of tobacco varietals reminds me of a wine list, a tradition steeped in history that we are still able to enjoy. You could have written:

Chardonnay: an oaked strong wine well-suited to cellar aging; or
Gewurztraminer: a fruity wine meant to be enjoyed young, with undertones of summer

and I would have been just as overjoyed!

 

[PapawBrett]

All in all, a good summary from PapawBrett. Great breakdown of extraction methods, tobacco leaf types, and mods.

My two cents here: I have found that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. I have tried PGA (pure grain alcohol) extracts followed by freeze filtering with dry ice, I've tried distilled water extracts, I've tried PG extracts, and combo VG/PGA extracts.

My personal results have deviated from what I've read from other users. I intend on reporting on it in more detail when I have results from some long-term extracts. Approximately 8 months from now.

Generally, I would advise to start by finding yourself a good NET commercial vendor to tie you over while your own extracts are in the works. Good NET takes time, and nothing sucks more than waiting empty handed. The first 6 months - 1 year is very difficult.

Next, I would start small in your NET experiments. Invest in a gallon of PG, VG, and PGA. Get a lot of 4oz canning jars. Buy a good selection of blended pipe tobaccos from Pipes & Cigars or a similar vendor. Get a small selection of cased pipe tobaccos and pipe tobaccos without casings. Get a few cigars as well to cut up and put in a jar. If you're feeling ambitions, go to LeafOnly and poke around, get whatever strikes your fancy. Get a good Virginia, Burley, Latakia, Dark Fired Kentucky, Perique, Oriental. For extra credit, get a variety of cigar leaf tobaccos. I found that blending your own cigar leaf extracts can result in something amazing.

Cut up anything that isn't cut up already and start putting them in your 4oz jars. Don't stuff the jars. You want them nice and fluffy. For every tobacco, you want 3 jars. One with PG, one with straight PGA 190 proof, and another with VG/PGA. In the VG/PGA jar, the idea is to add enough PGA to get the solvent the consistency of PG. VG on it's own is too viscous to filter later on.

For the jars with straight PGA, you can hot bump them if you want, as outlined by Str8vision. Followed by freeze filtering. I think you'll get the best luck with this method for cased tobaccos.

I advise hot bumping the PG and the VG/PGA jars at 110 degrees F for 8 hours. But feel free to just shelve them cold. For the PG and the VG/PGA jars, shelve them for at least 6 months. The cigars should sit for a year.

After 6 months - 1 year, filter the tobacco leaves and bits out using lab filters, coffee filters, polyester filter felt, whatever you want to try. I personally use 1 micron polyester filter felt. there are a lot of forum posts outlining various filtration methods.

Now you have a broad sample of tobaccos in PG, PGA, and PG. Now you decide what you like best. Once you find what you like, then get the big mason jars and up your production.

Regarding distilled water extracts, I generally advise against it. It requires special attention and is easy to get wrong and make you sick. Water has no bactericidal or bacteriostatic properties.

Basically what I'm getting at is that if you don't try different methods you don't know what you're missing. If you want to be simple stupid though, just take whatever tobacco you know you already like, make sure it's chopped up, and put in jar of PG. Six months later, filter it out the tobacco leaves, and you have yourself an NET extract, ready for adding VG/PG/Nic to.

NET is about the journey. Learn to enjoy the process and be patient.

Just curious - what is your ratio for mixing VG and PGA ? Half and half, three quarters VG to one quarter PGA ?
Anybody ...?

 

[Boscovlle]

Just curious - what is your ratio for mixing VG and PGA ? Half and half, three quarters VG to one quarter PGA ?
Anybody ...?

I've been making my own NET'S for a little over 3years. I no longer use PGA but when I did I would use it by itself. I tried PGA with VG at a 50/50 mix a few times. The results were good it just adds more time when using PGA because you have to evaporate the PGA before using your extract.

 

[CAAB]

Just curious - what is your ratio for mixing VG and PGA ? Half and half, three quarters VG to one quarter PGA ?
Anybody ...?

I started with a 75 VG 25 PGA ratio, but I am thinking of pushing it something closer to Boscovlle's 50/50 ratio. My extracts are looking a little thick. Haven't tried micron filtration yet on those. I am hoping somewhere closer to 70 VG 30 PGA for mine, maybe a touch more PGA.

What I did initially was just take a specific volume of VG, and just incrementally add PGA, giving it a good while to integrate each time. I did this until it sloshed around like PG. Then I did a little math to figure out what ratio I ended up with. I think in my case though, the tobacco itself increased the viscosity, and possibly because I was doing this in the summer, and now it is winter, things are becoming more viscous.

My motivation here is that I know PGA is more expensive, and I suspect it does not extract as complete a flavor profile as VG. The jury is out on that still as far my experiments.

The results were good it just adds more time when using PGA because you have to evaporate the PGA before using your extract.

There has been discussion on methods for evaporating PGA. I think the key is to use a shallow vessel to increase surface area. I actually stumbled upon a good solution for myself. I had a Nesco American Harvest dehydrator laying around, as that is what dehydrators are good for, laying around unused for several years.

I cut the middle out of two trays so I was left with two rings. Then I added two more uncut trays. This got everything to the proper height. Mine perfectly fits two Pyrex 3-cup rectangular dishes. Now you have a temperature controlled dehydrating fan that can evaporate two extracts at a time.

But really a fan over a shallow dish would work too. You just need to cover it with cheesecloth or something to keep the bugs and particulates out. Fruit flies and such are attracted to it. When it comes to NET, use what you have at hand or what you can get cheap at a garage sale where possible.

A quick observation, you don't necessarily need to evaporate out all the PGA. Especially if you are PG sensitive, PGA is a potentially good way to thin out your e-liquid. But it can have an unpleasant harshness to it and it can lend an alcohol flavor to your e-liquids in a high enough ratio. Most likely though, you are going to have to do some degree of evaporation with PGA.

 

[Str8vision]

Some -excellent- posts in this thread.

After hundreds of experiments over the years, my personal favorite extraction method uses a 70/30 PGA/VG solvent (190 proof PGA). This ratio still allows for freeze filtering (which can yield a squeaky clean extract) while also providing a fluid viscosity that can be gravity filtered even when cold (freeze filtering).

I fill canning jars a little over half way full with tobacco then finish filling them with solvent leaving a healthy (3/4") headspace of air. The jars are just "lightly" sealed with rings and lids.

I place the jars in a highly accurate temperature controlled slow cooker and fill the cooker three quarters full of water. The jars are heated to 170F for 12 hours, then allowed to cool to room temperature. (NOTE: I don't start timing the extraction until the water bath reaches 170F.)

I have so much finished and well aged extract on hand I'm in no hurry these days. So once the jars are cool and dry I store them in a dark place at room temperature for at least 90 days and usually much longer. This additional cold soak wrings all available flavor from the tobacco.

When the extraction process is complete I separate solvent from tobacco, making sure to squeeze trapped solvent from the saturated tobacco. All the extract is filtered through a coffee filter during this step. Personally, I like using a S.S. potato ricer for the big squeeze.

The separated extract is tightly sealed in clean canning jars and placed in a freezer for 72 hours. After 72 hours have elapsed I filter the extract through coffee filters while still in the freezer.

The freeze filtered extract is then reduced 60-65% in a wide, shallow container using a fan to expedite the process. The warmer and drier the environment, the faster the reduction. The reduced extract is stored in sealed canning jars, at room temperature, for a week or two allowing any natural oils time to coalesce.

Finally, I vacuum filter the reduced extract through micron rated glass lab filters and store it in air tight glass containers.

I mix the finished extracts at between 5% and 10% depending on the tobacco in play and if I'm making a straight or hybrid (flavored) NET. Once mixed I like to allow NET to age a few weeks before enjoying it although it's really good even freshly mixed (Shake-N-Vape).

I traveled extensively this year and packed six 120ml bottles of well aged mixed NETs to carry with me. It was so nice not worrying about vape supplies during my extended trip. With deeming regulations just around the corner, state bans and ever increasing vape taxes popping up everywhere, it's nice to know I'm totally self sufficient and completely immune from all that nonsense. It took a few years of work but learning how to manufacture my own was time well spent.

 

[Boscovlle]

Some -excellent- posts in this thread.

After hundreds of experiments over the years, my personal favorite extraction method uses a 70/30 PGA/VG solvent (190 proof PGA). This ratio still allows for freeze filtering (which can yield a squeaky clean extract) while also providing a fluid viscosity that can be gravity filtered even when cold (freeze filtering).

Being self sufficient and immune to all this vape nonsense is definitely the goal here. I have 3 batches that have been soaking since 9/2. I also freeze filter then vacuum filter at 2 microns. There's definitely a wealth of knowledge in this group. Str8vision freeze filtration method and overall knowledge has been invaluable to me. Thanks...

 

[Boscovlle]

Being self sufficient and immune to all this vape nonsense is definitely the goal here. I have 3 batches that have been soaking since 9/2. I also freeze filter then vacuum filter at 2 microns. There's definitely a wealth of knowledge in this group. Str8vision freeze filtration method and overall knowledge has been invaluable to me. Thanks...

 

[nostradadus]

Being self sufficient and immune to all this vape nonsense is definitely the goal

Indeed! With the help of MANY here on ECF and by reading all of their posts until my eyes bled, I’m never going to need to worry about my NET liquid supply... EVER. I have, roughly, 30 years worth of tobacco, in a cellared state, awaiting extraction.

 

[nostradadus]

I did get to thinking though... If the Gooberment does decide to make things difficult for all those vendors selling NET and those vendors are required to close shop... If someone sees naturally-extracted-tobacco dot com start having a going out of business sale... for the love of all that is holy... someone message me, PLEASE! There are a few NETs from Clay’s shop which I would gladly purchase in order to enjoy his craft one last time!

 

[nostradadus]

personal favorite extraction method uses a 70/30 PGA/VG solvent (190 proof PGA).

I’ve produced a few extracts using this method as well... comes out very nice. Seems like the tobacco flavor of the extract is just a little bit brighter all ‘round. I don’t do it that often, ‘cause it adds one more little step to the filtering process; evaporation of the EA. But, it’s really not a huge deal... 1 hour of the extract sitting in a bowl over a low heat source, evaps most of the EA volatiles out of the extract. I usually save those jars for when there’s a snow day (or 5)!

My version is 75P/25PGA; no winterization... I enjoy the particulate matter!

 

[hittman]

Thanks for all the information. I may just give it a try some day.

 

[PapawBrett]

Through conversation with another ECF member, I am reminded of how waiting for that first self made NET experience is so tempting. Especially if you are doing cold maceration, the wait does require quite a bit of patience.
After eight weeks or so, if you must "sneak a sample", then I would make a few suggestions.
Try not to lift or move to jars any more than absolutely necessary. Every motion will stir up particles and sediment that you are trying to avoid. Remember, these would be unfiltered extract as this time. Even with the utmost care, these samples will seem gunky. But if you have to have a taste, sneak one ml. off of top and mix up a ten ml. sample. Allow to steep for two weeks, shaking occasionally.
This sample method will at least give you some idea of what the finished, filtered product will taste like.
And, of course, once you have a year or two of extract on hand, patience will no longer be a problem.