What's really frustrating is that Thailand just banned smoking in bars. Now is the perfect time to introduce these things, and yet...TropicalBob said:
Thailand to ban e-cigs
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I found this forum earlier this evening and have been reading many of the threads with great interest, including this one.
I've never had an inclination to visit Thailand (just never fancied going) and doubt if I ever will.
However, I would point out that nicotine itself is addictive but otherwise harmless. If anything, as it's a mild relaxant I would think it would have a beneficial effect. I will stand corrected if I'm wrong in this. With ordinary ciggies, it is the tar and carbon-monoxide (among other chemicals) that are damaging to the person smoking. I do not believe for one minute in the so-called SHS. There is not one documented case, anywhere in the world of anyone dying because of SHS. The theory on SHS is nothing more than abolute junk science, perpetrated by the greedy pharmaceuticals to push their expensive anti-smoking products and seized upon by people who don't like smoking for no other reason that they don't like the smell of smoke, or the thought of someone smoking
Since the smoking ban came in (I'm in the UK), I have not been in a pub except twice. Once was after a funeral and we stayed long enough to have the statutory tea and sandwiches then left, and the second time was at our works Christmas party. Most of us left shortly after the meal and went home. In our workplace, 98% of the workforce are smokers. Thanks to the ban, we have to abide by minority rule
Apart from that, and twice going to a cafe, my husband and I have not had an evening out. He is a non-smoker and hates the ban too. The smoking ban has wrecked peoples' social lives and also so many peoples' livelihoods. One of my favourite cafes, which did lovely home cooked food, closed down within a month of the ban. It was taken over by another cafe who put in sofas, low tables etc. but the last time I looked in, it was empty. Before the ban, that was a cafe where you often had to wait for an available table.
Our government and its sidekicks the medical profession and the pharmaceuticals don't give a hoot how it affects people so long as they're ramming their dogma down peoples' throats and exercising control over peoples' lives.
In the UK we're living in George Orwell's 1984 fourteen years later.
So, I bought an e-cig. By the look of it after reading this forum, it's a 901. I'm impressed with it, so much so, I've got another one ordered for my son (he's 22 so no panic on age
) and another one for me - a different brand this time so I can compare.
I am also active with an organisation called Freedom2Choose. We are trying very, very hard to get the smoking ban overturned, or at least some concessions made. Under the current Labour government, that is probably mission impossible but we'll never give up trying.
If the government tries to ban e-cigs too, then it will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are victimising smokers (well, we know they are already) and no other section of the community. At the recent local elections, one of the MPs was on the radio (I think it might have been Harriet Harman but I'm not sure. It was on the Nicky Campbell show). One of the Labour activists from the North of England e-mailed into the show and listed why people had turned against Labour. One of the main reasons was that people, both smokers and non-smokers (antis are a completely seperate species) hated the smoking ban. Nu Labour's smoking ban turned round and bit them fairly and squarely on the a**e
Here is the link for Freedom2Choose. I will understand if the moderators remove the link but the more people who take action against the smoking ban, be it tobacco or e-cigs, the better.
http://www.freedom2choose.org
There is a forum there for anyone who wants to join.
In the meantime, I'm enjoying my new e-cig
I've never had an inclination to visit Thailand (just never fancied going) and doubt if I ever will.
However, I would point out that nicotine itself is addictive but otherwise harmless. If anything, as it's a mild relaxant I would think it would have a beneficial effect. I will stand corrected if I'm wrong in this. With ordinary ciggies, it is the tar and carbon-monoxide (among other chemicals) that are damaging to the person smoking. I do not believe for one minute in the so-called SHS. There is not one documented case, anywhere in the world of anyone dying because of SHS. The theory on SHS is nothing more than abolute junk science, perpetrated by the greedy pharmaceuticals to push their expensive anti-smoking products and seized upon by people who don't like smoking for no other reason that they don't like the smell of smoke, or the thought of someone smoking
Since the smoking ban came in (I'm in the UK), I have not been in a pub except twice. Once was after a funeral and we stayed long enough to have the statutory tea and sandwiches then left, and the second time was at our works Christmas party. Most of us left shortly after the meal and went home. In our workplace, 98% of the workforce are smokers. Thanks to the ban, we have to abide by minority rule
Apart from that, and twice going to a cafe, my husband and I have not had an evening out. He is a non-smoker and hates the ban too. The smoking ban has wrecked peoples' social lives and also so many peoples' livelihoods. One of my favourite cafes, which did lovely home cooked food, closed down within a month of the ban. It was taken over by another cafe who put in sofas, low tables etc. but the last time I looked in, it was empty. Before the ban, that was a cafe where you often had to wait for an available table.
Our government and its sidekicks the medical profession and the pharmaceuticals don't give a hoot how it affects people so long as they're ramming their dogma down peoples' throats and exercising control over peoples' lives.
In the UK we're living in George Orwell's 1984 fourteen years later.
So, I bought an e-cig. By the look of it after reading this forum, it's a 901. I'm impressed with it, so much so, I've got another one ordered for my son (he's 22 so no panic on age
) and another one for me - a different brand this time so I can compare.I am also active with an organisation called Freedom2Choose. We are trying very, very hard to get the smoking ban overturned, or at least some concessions made. Under the current Labour government, that is probably mission impossible but we'll never give up trying.
If the government tries to ban e-cigs too, then it will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are victimising smokers (well, we know they are already) and no other section of the community. At the recent local elections, one of the MPs was on the radio (I think it might have been Harriet Harman but I'm not sure. It was on the Nicky Campbell show). One of the Labour activists from the North of England e-mailed into the show and listed why people had turned against Labour. One of the main reasons was that people, both smokers and non-smokers (antis are a completely seperate species) hated the smoking ban. Nu Labour's smoking ban turned round and bit them fairly and squarely on the a**e
Here is the link for Freedom2Choose. I will understand if the moderators remove the link but the more people who take action against the smoking ban, be it tobacco or e-cigs, the better.
http://www.freedom2choose.org
There is a forum there for anyone who wants to join.
In the meantime, I'm enjoying my new e-cig
welcome lady python.
there are many interesting posts on this subject...governmental control is a recurring theme.
nicotine can harden and narrow the arteries,and its poison in relatively small quantities if ingested.
yes,in the UK the ban has destroyed the social scene in many areas(even back when the economy was really booming)...people just get 6 packs and sit at home and have a beer and a smoke in comfort.its just depressing...lots of people cant be bothered going out anymore,even the non smokers...the ambiance in pubs has changed-and not for the better...
but fair play to you for fighting back..realistically,i dont think the government will ever reverse it,or even relax the ban,no matter what anyone tries to do...more and more countries are adopting this attitude to smoking,its like a domino effect...in fact i expect it to get worse.it'll probably be outlawed on the streets next...
so i fear e-smoking is next on the hit list,just as soon as they become aware of it...our nanny state wont be reasoned with or bargained with,as you well know...but we can try...
in the meantime,enjoy your current relative freedom to vape while it lasts...
there are many interesting posts on this subject...governmental control is a recurring theme.
nicotine can harden and narrow the arteries,and its poison in relatively small quantities if ingested.
yes,in the UK the ban has destroyed the social scene in many areas(even back when the economy was really booming)...people just get 6 packs and sit at home and have a beer and a smoke in comfort.its just depressing...lots of people cant be bothered going out anymore,even the non smokers...the ambiance in pubs has changed-and not for the better...
but fair play to you for fighting back..realistically,i dont think the government will ever reverse it,or even relax the ban,no matter what anyone tries to do...more and more countries are adopting this attitude to smoking,its like a domino effect...in fact i expect it to get worse.it'll probably be outlawed on the streets next...
so i fear e-smoking is next on the hit list,just as soon as they become aware of it...our nanny state wont be reasoned with or bargained with,as you well know...but we can try...
in the meantime,enjoy your current relative freedom to vape while it lasts...
Most of us are trying hard to be fair, more than fair, about nicotine problems as we understand them. Sometimes I wince a bit at how we state it though. My understanding is that nicotine is a stimulant, stimulants increase blood pressure, which increases the heart rate, an increase in heart rate and blood pressure blahblahblah hardening of the arteries. Among others:Mr.Darcy said:
--- > "the amount of caffeine in just one cup of coffee could be enough to harden a person's arteries for several hours."
---> "In addition, chocolate and sugar accelerate hardening of the arteries"
I ingest artery-hardening substances daily. Being free of nicotine would be better for my arteries, however I would still be ingesting artery-hardening substances daily, albeit fewer of them. Nicotine isn't a "special" artery hardening substance different from other stimulants, as far as I know.
The rise and fall of nicotine in the body can be easily charted, like a mountain range, and the results measured (I had it done last year at a clinic and watched the measuring machines!). I think we have to admit that there are "down" sides to nicotine, some of which are only now becoming better known. It is not a consequence-free stimulant/relaxant for most people.
A smoker smokes on average every half hour. What happens inside the body? Wham! The heart, liver and pancreas go into overdrive to handle the surge from the nicotine, pumping blood -- faster, faster -- through narrower arteries at greater pressure, then producing more sugar and then more insulin to handle the sugar. Then comes the collapse until the next craving must be satisfied. And it starts again.
I'd hazard a guess that there is nothing most smokers do in their daily existence that so frantically jerks the body's vital organs around. Not coffee. Not chocolate. Not breathing California air. It's the regular daily, repeated impacts of nicotine that ultimately take a toll on the circulatory system.
And this isn't even theoretical. The studies of smokers tell the story. Stroke and heart attack are greater dangers to prematurely end a smoker's life than lung cancer or emphysema.
My goal with e-smoking and snus use is to steady my blood nicotine level, so there are no precipitous peaks and valleys that stress my organs in the way I saw on machines last year. As long as I'm addicted, that seems the safest route to my use of nicotine. I surely hope I've found a better way for this addict to maintain his fix, while recognizing that nicotine is not my friend.
A smoker smokes on average every half hour. What happens inside the body? Wham! The heart, liver and pancreas go into overdrive to handle the surge from the nicotine, pumping blood -- faster, faster -- through narrower arteries at greater pressure, then producing more sugar and then more insulin to handle the sugar. Then comes the collapse until the next craving must be satisfied. And it starts again.
I'd hazard a guess that there is nothing most smokers do in their daily existence that so frantically jerks the body's vital organs around. Not coffee. Not chocolate. Not breathing California air. It's the regular daily, repeated impacts of nicotine that ultimately take a toll on the circulatory system.
And this isn't even theoretical. The studies of smokers tell the story. Stroke and heart attack are greater dangers to prematurely end a smoker's life than lung cancer or emphysema.
My goal with e-smoking and snus use is to steady my blood nicotine level, so there are no precipitous peaks and valleys that stress my organs in the way I saw on machines last year. As long as I'm addicted, that seems the safest route to my use of nicotine. I surely hope I've found a better way for this addict to maintain his fix, while recognizing that nicotine is not my friend.
This nanny-state government is rapidly coming to an end. Even if it does go full-term (which I doubt) we have roughly less than 18 months left to suffer it. I have no doubt the incoming government is going to be Conservative. I don't think they're quite so in-your-face nanny-state. David Davis forced a by-election based on our loss of freedoms and has faced a lot of criticism and ridicule for doing so. Whether you agree with his method or his party's politics or not, at least he's brought the loss of freedom and democracy to the forefront of everyone's mind. Whoever, takes over as government the next time has one hell of a job to get things sorted out in this country. I don't envy them one little bit.
As for nicotine. Hmm. Hardens arteries (old age does that too), caffeine hardens arteries...makes blood pressure rise...
OMG
I'm in deep doo-doos I've been a smoker and complete coffee-holic for 40 years...and...I've got naturally very low blood pressure If I stopped smoking (e-cigs or normal cigs), stopped drinking coffee, I wouldn't have any blood pressure at all
As for nicotine. Hmm. Hardens arteries (old age does that too), caffeine hardens arteries...makes blood pressure rise...
OMG
I'm in deep doo-doos I've been a smoker and complete coffee-holic for 40 years...and...I've got naturally very low blood pressure If I stopped smoking (e-cigs or normal cigs), stopped drinking coffee, I wouldn't have any blood pressure at all
Do as you see fit. That's the beauty of personal liberty. Just do so in full knowledge, without denial.
Sadly, Tropical Bob, every day here in the UK we lose another bit of our personal liberty. Soon there won't be any left 
We have a similar, though not as severe, problem in the States. I feel for all of us, particularly those of us who grew up in better, freer times. We, too, look forward to a change in government here. Lordy, do we ever need redirection.
TropicalBob said:
Fixed that for ya!
But in all reality, i've been watching the progression of e-cigarettes myself. My fears seem to be shared by the bulk of people on this site, and that's the fear of e-cigarettes being outlawed before any thought is given to the potential positive impact they would have on smokers lives. I've been spending a lot of my time educating anyone that is interested, to prep them for when the time comes to fight back and keep e-cigarettes legal.
Smokers and non-smokers love the idea of the device, and i'm generally asked where to purchase one, when i take my njoy out. I'll also explain that they are not regulated by the government yet, and most people think that they should be regulated but not banned.
Anyways - i wanted to toss this out, because public knowledge of these devices MAY save them, when sh*t hits the fan.
Interesting edit, but I really did mean redirection. Revolutions are sometimes violent and the outcome unpredictable. Redirection is a course change. I want an America that returns individual freedoms to the states and citizens, yanks favorable tax props from under entrenched big business, puts people first in all considerations. That's not today's America. Redirection is what's needed.
I would like to see the government in the US and other countries test the product and specifically compare it to cigarettes. There is little debate that nicotine can be harmful in certain quantities, but eliminating the other toxins in burning tobacco should be the focus.
James, I wish your idea could come to pass. But it won't. A "cigarette" is carefully defined in U.S. law. It contains tobacco. It burns. Those are two essential qualities that make a cigarette a cigarette. And cigarettes, by ruling of the Supreme Court, cannot be regulated by the Food & Drug Administration (which issued the harsh reports on the dangers of smoking, beginning in 1964).
So what is this e-cig thing if not a cigarette?
It's a metal tube containing electronics and liquid that has but one purpose: Deliver vapor to a person sucking on it. Very simple.
What's the problem? Well, the liquid that makes the vapor contains nicotine, a substance regulated in everything but cigarettes. It's regulated in Big Pharma's inhaler. Gum. Lozenges. Nasal spray. None of those are cigarettes either -- and all were required to have extensive lab testing and government approvals before they could be marketed.
Nicotine is not some benign stimulant, either. It's poison. A very, very deadly poison rivaling any other poison on the planet. It is addictive, so much so that it can only be compared to ...... and ........ A thimble full of our E-Liquid would kill either a child or a dog. This is not coffee we're talking about. It's not chocolate. And it has dire, scientifically proven consequences to the body. If you want relaxation of rules, first get science on your side. Emotion is not going to prevail when nicotine is the consideration.
So, bottom line, what we have here is what I've described before: A drug delivery device with the sole purpose of delivering nicotine to addicts. I can't see anyone breaking into smiles over that fact. Me? I'm just enjoying it while I can. Gimme a year on it and I might can break my addiction altogether.
So what is this e-cig thing if not a cigarette?
It's a metal tube containing electronics and liquid that has but one purpose: Deliver vapor to a person sucking on it. Very simple.
What's the problem? Well, the liquid that makes the vapor contains nicotine, a substance regulated in everything but cigarettes. It's regulated in Big Pharma's inhaler. Gum. Lozenges. Nasal spray. None of those are cigarettes either -- and all were required to have extensive lab testing and government approvals before they could be marketed.
Nicotine is not some benign stimulant, either. It's poison. A very, very deadly poison rivaling any other poison on the planet. It is addictive, so much so that it can only be compared to ...... and ........ A thimble full of our E-Liquid would kill either a child or a dog. This is not coffee we're talking about. It's not chocolate. And it has dire, scientifically proven consequences to the body. If you want relaxation of rules, first get science on your side. Emotion is not going to prevail when nicotine is the consideration.
So, bottom line, what we have here is what I've described before: A drug delivery device with the sole purpose of delivering nicotine to addicts. I can't see anyone breaking into smiles over that fact. Me? I'm just enjoying it while I can. Gimme a year on it and I might can break my addiction altogether.
was surprise thailand is a country where they don;t really strict also same like singapore ban it ..
I feel funny why nitconie patch or chewing gums permitted in most countries even sg permitted and label as a tools to aid quitting smokingbut e cigarettes is nope...also same contain nicotine and susbtances found in perserving foods....just that without tar and other chemicals.
rite?
maybe it used like a real cigarette and best part can simulate smoke just like real cigarette that why this is the part whereby most health authority in the countries use as an excuse to ban it because it might treated as a fun toy to smoke if minor get hold of it?
So the e-cig is a metal tube containing electronics and harmless liquid that has but one purpose: Deliver vapor with or without nicotine to a person sucking on it. Very simple.
And the normal cigarette is a paper tube containing over 4000 dangerous chemicals of which tens of carcinogenic killer chemicals, that are burned in order to be inhaled, with one purpose: Deliver nicotine and dangerous smoke (that will kill you for sure), to a person sucking on it. Very simple.
So, what we have here is: 2 drug delivery devices with the sole purpose of delivering nicotine to addicts.
But the e-cig is considered dangerous and the killer cigarette is considered good for sales over the counter.
Wir haben es nicht gewusst?
And the normal cigarette is a paper tube containing over 4000 dangerous chemicals of which tens of carcinogenic killer chemicals, that are burned in order to be inhaled, with one purpose: Deliver nicotine and dangerous smoke (that will kill you for sure), to a person sucking on it. Very simple.
So, what we have here is: 2 drug delivery devices with the sole purpose of delivering nicotine to addicts.
But the e-cig is considered dangerous and the killer cigarette is considered good for sales over the counter.
Wir haben es nicht gewusst?
You have it exactly right. And if the tobacco cigarette were being proposed today for marketing, it would be banned.
But it has history. It has protections achieved by a (lying) Big Industry. It's not our friend, but it has had lawmakers in its pockets for years. That is changing -- but that change won't benefit e-smoking, I fear. What is likely to happen is that lawmakers are going to make cigarettes and other tobacco products more and more difficult to both obtain and use.
The e-cigarette is ... very simple ... not a cigarette and will not enjoy any of the present protections. It's purely a drug delivery device, and the drug has fallen into intense disfavor among a majority of citizens, health professionals and lawmakers. To suggest it be allowed for recreational use in a new product is almost laughable.
But it has history. It has protections achieved by a (lying) Big Industry. It's not our friend, but it has had lawmakers in its pockets for years. That is changing -- but that change won't benefit e-smoking, I fear. What is likely to happen is that lawmakers are going to make cigarettes and other tobacco products more and more difficult to both obtain and use.
The e-cigarette is ... very simple ... not a cigarette and will not enjoy any of the present protections. It's purely a drug delivery device, and the drug has fallen into intense disfavor among a majority of citizens, health professionals and lawmakers. To suggest it be allowed for recreational use in a new product is almost laughable.
true and true. The only reason we want it is it's less obviously deadly than the hook we're already impaled on. I ain't counting on a compassion overload...
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