Taxes and E-cigs

[Esharp]

Here is a link to a couple of tax proposals that were presented to congress in Jan./2013.

Federal Bills Would Subtantially Increase Tobacco Taxes and Allow New Taxes on Electronic Cigarettes — Troutman Sanders Tobacco Team

I'm sure most of here knew this was coming. I, like many here have concerns about the level of taxation on e-cigs.

• If taxes are too high or are unrealistic, It will stop a number of smokers from switching to e-cigs. Example; Some pre-filled cartridges indicate they are equivalent to so many packs of cigs (lets say 2 packs). Now tax that cartridge as if it were two packs. I'm not going to pay $15 for a cart when I can get a pack of smokes for half, or even less if I make a run out to the reserve.
• How do they tax juice? Do they have some formula that says that 1ml of juice is equal to X number of cigs. E-juice is probably going to be forbidden for sale. They don't want us to DIY.
• I see taxation as the biggest threat to vaping.

We can say what we want about how great vaping is, but at the end of the day we are just after our nicotine (at least I am). IMO, taxation to the equivalence of cigarettes will stop the growth that we have been seeing in the vaping world. Price has been a big factor in the people that I have gotten to convert. It's not about harm reduction, it's our addiction to nicotine. If we aren't going to quit outright, then we'll pay a penalty. Taxes.

 

[DuaneNeveu]

When that article goes through my filters, I come to some different (albeit hasty) conclusions...besides which, this relates to U.S. legislation.

First, the involvement of electronic cigarettes in these bills is repeatedly stated as conditional to the FDA deeming e-cigarettes to be "tobacco products". The community is making that increasingly difficult. What's most encouraging about the article, though, is that there stands to also be a substantial increase in the taxation of traditional tobacco products. I don't imagine "Big Tobacco" allowing something to easily pass that stands to make buying their products more prohibitive for the least advantaged of their client base as well.

As long as electronic cigarettes are lumped into these two bills that could so affect BT sales and tobacco product accessibility, I don't see it as worrisome because I can't imagine them ever seeing the light of day...but that's just how I imagine it going down.

 

[Esharp]

When that article goes through my filters, I come to some different (albeit hasty) conclusions...besides which, this relates to U.S. legislation.

First, the involvement of electronic cigarettes in these bills is repeatedly stated as conditional to the FDA deeming e-cigarettes to be "tobacco products". The community is making that increasingly difficult. What's most encouraging about the article, though, is that there stands to also be a substantial increase in the taxation of traditional tobacco products. I don't imagine "Big Tobacco" allowing something to easily pass that stands to make buying their products more prohibitive for the least advantaged of their client base as well.

As long as electronic cigarettes are lumped into these two bills that could so affect BT sales and tobacco product accessibility, I don't see it as worrisome because I can't imagine them ever seeing the light of day...but that's just how I imagine it going down.

You are correct, this is U.S. legislation, and the FDA has to approve e-cigs as a tobacco product. The new head of the Tobacco Products Division of the FDA (Mitch Zeller) has no love for nicotine in any form unless it's in the form of an approved therapy program (patches, gums etc....). You can catch a Sept. 2012 speech he did on Youtube. I totally agree that BT will fight any large tax increases. This is all speculation as we don't know what the FDA is going to bring down in April, but I'm expecting it to be heavy. And even after April, this will have to be all played out in the different arenas. Then there is HC, who do they take their lead from. I don't see HC doing the right thing by vapors. As far e-cigs go, they (HC) still consider them to be medical devices if they have nicotine in them.

The vaping community has put forth great arguments with proof regarding harm reduction, but IMO the FDA and HC are not interested in harm reduction. They are only interested in nicotine abstinence, as they see nicotine as a scourge that needs to be eradicated. We are dealing with zealots who don't care if they overstep their boundaries, which I don't understand, I'm an adult, I can make up my own mind. I don't need a bureaucrat who has never smoked telling me what's best for me. I hope your right Duane, but this is the crap we are up against.

 

[DKM2]

it about the money, people be damned.

nicotine gum is about about $30 a pack, regular gum is $1.5, considering what the price
of nic is, the gum should be about $2. They don't want you to quit, they just want a peice of the "action"

 

[Kagey K]

If they did get acknowledged by the FDA and HC, I think they would likely be classified along the same lines a Nicorette inhalers and other products. Taxed out the ... but we could use them everywhere.

It's a win/lose for everyone, but there are too many studies proving their harm reduction to second hand, to classify them in the same room as Cigarettes.

At that point we could just all go DIY and get Nic juice easy as they would have to make straight nic easily available. IF it's approved for public comsumption the public must have access to purchasing it.

 

[Big-Dog]

In Times in need , we will you send the " REAL MCCOY" .

Vape on CANADA

 

[Lilkurty]

My main concern is that if HC maintains their stance then cartridges or liquids with nicotine will be prescription only and for a set period of time.
All the rest is quite legal just the way it is.

Of course the medical route will take years of study before anything will happen.

PM has this report that pretty much states their position as a proposal for the future

One Canadian tobacco control advocate concluded that excise tax has reached
its limit as an effective mechanism for tobacco control in Canada:
“An example of this can be seen in relation to tax policy. Canada
was able to dramatically increase the price of cigarettes, in part
because the price had been so low. Tripling real prices has a
tremendous dampening effect on consumption,but tripling prices
again is nearly impossible. Among other issues facing Canada,
there is now a significant contraband market … The presence of
these alternative, untaxed sources of supply clearly limit the
pursuit of policies that are aimed at making tobacco products less
available to smokers through further tax increase


http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/internet/preventativehealth/publishing.nsf/Content/submissions-public-cnt-op/$File/D270-2008.pdf

 

[Hello World]

Doesn't seem to cover e-liquids, but they'll likely amend that once approval and regulations come into place.

This penalty if smoking rates are not reduced by 5% annually... like mandatory California emission standards the auto industry had to comply to after a certain date ... doesn't work.

In Canada, Natural Gas technology for vehicles at less than half the price and cleaner emissions than petrol was pushed under the carpet by taxation some 20 years ago.

Of course they're gonna tax e-cigs to the ying-yang ... with as much as they can get away with. It's a given.