Snus Question

[David Bruno]

Hello all,
I've been vaping without smoking analogs for 17 months. A week ago I almost picked up a cigarette. I was fishing a Bass fishing tournament and didn't have or want to take the time messing with my Tornado. I needed my hands on the fishing poles and not trying to vape. A co fisherman in my boat said to try a piece of his camel Snus. I've been using it with my Tornado since. My two part question is, What Swedish snus has a sweet taste like the Camel snus? I tried Marlboro Snus and it was OK, but liked the Camel better. The reason I'd like the Swedish is that it has less cancer causing agents than Camel. I don't know if this is hype or true.
I had a tough time with throat cancer and am in remission. I'd like to be able to use snus as my mood has improved. My wife says that since stopping analogs, I've been a bear. I have struggled with finding a juice
that tastes like tobacco enough to satisfy. Snus and juice is great.
Any sweet Swedish snus ideas? And do you believe that snus is a lower risk?Any help would be great.
Thanks,
Dave

 

[Justindew]

No offense man not trying to judge you but I would think after having throat cancer you might give up these things all together.

 

[hittman]

David, it is true. Swedish snus is 98 percent safer than analogs and much safer than the camel not to mention it is more satisfying. You might try general mini mints or regular white mint portions. I am assuming that you are using the camel frost.

 

[Skrymr]

I'd recommend Lab 01 or Grovsnus if you prefer non mint portions.

 

[voltaire]

I know it's a commonly repeated, but does anybody actually have a cite or any data to backup that Camel snus are less safe than Swedish snus? Doesn't seem to make sense to me - other than being rooted in understandable suspicion for American BT.

Regardless, David, have you tried dissolvable tobacco like Stonewall or Ariva? That's even safer than any snus.

 

[Katya]

If you absolutely can't stay away from any tobacco products, which in the case of throat cancer would be the safest way to go, you might want to consider the purified portions, like Oomph, or American dissolvable tobacco (Stonewall, Ariva), as they have the lowest nitrosamine content. Then Swedish mini white portions, then the Lab series. I don't recommend regular snus portions; they are sprayed with tobacco juice and are higher in nitrosamines. You may also consider using the patch and snus combo. You really want to avoid tobacco products in your mouth.

Read this first.

WSJ article about smokeless tobacco (from Jan)


But frankly, with your history of cancer, I would talk to your doc first. You really should avoid any and all potential carcinogens. There are other ways to deal with depression and mood problems than tobacco. Honest.

 

[voltaire]

Thanks Katya,

I had forgotten the chart from that thread had Camel snus and Swedish snus. (even though I responded in relation to that very issue, lol)

As I suspected, it proves that Camel snus are just as safe (TSNA-wise) as Swedish snus. As I pointed out in that other thread, the Camel snus most likely had roughly half as much TSNA's because the Camel portion was probably roughly half the size of the General. So they are roughly just as safe.

Though, one thing to point out is that Camels certainly have a lot more sugar as opposed to the average Swedish snus, so there's that.

But yes, if I had previous throat cancer and I just had to use some sort of oral tobacco, it would be Stonewall or Ariva - as borne out by that chart.

 

[Katya]

Voltaire, they didn't include the purified portions (Oomph) and the white mini portions in their review. Those are safer than Camel. The regular Swedish snus, sprayed with tobacco juice, contains a lot of tobacco and that's why it rates higher, IMHO.

Besides, I read somewhere that the nitrosamines in American snus increase with storage. Swedish snus is pasteurized and the nitrosamines stay low no matter how long it's stored. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe that dissolvables, Swedish purified and Swedish white mini (unsprayed) portions are the safest. Then there is also the Discreet line of American snus that is pasteurized like the Swedish snus. Good company trying to do the right thing. I wouldn't use Camel, but it's just me.

But for someone who's battling throat cancer... I don't know. None of those products are 100% risk free. Seems like playing with fire.

 

[hittman]

I did a little digging and from what I found it said that camel snus has tsna levels of 1.4mg/g and Swedish snus made by V2 has tsna levels of .7mg/g. However some like Ettan are higher so when I said swedish snus is safer than camel, that was not entirely correct. It does depend on which swedish snus and it seems that camel is pretty close in the ball park to the swedish snus so I would not say there is that much difference.

 

[voltaire]

Besides, I read somewhere that the nitrosamines in American snus increase with storage. Swedish snus is pasteurized and the nitrosamines stay low no matter how long it's stored. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't speak to any of the rest (though it sounds right), but I do know that American Camel snus ARE in fact pasteurized. And for that reason, I suspect that they have similar nitrosamine stability to typical Swedish snus.

In the current climate for tobacco products in the U.S., it would make absolutely no sense for BT to release a new product line that wasn't as safe as it could reasonably be made to be - in fact I don't think they would legally even be allowed to do otherwise.

 

[Katya]

I'm not usually paranoid, but I read this some time ago, and his conclusions sound prophetic, almost. This was written two years ago.

Camel SNUS and Marlboro snus: US Cigarette Smokers lack of knowledge about REAL Snus being Exploited by Big Tobacco for BIG Profits: PART 3 of 3

 

[David Bruno]

I really want to thank everyone who responded. I am really aware of the risk involved with my cancer. My type of cancer was in the outside area of the throat. Had surgury and followed by radiation. Latest scan shows zero cancer. I haven't smoked a analog for going on 18 months, I've been vaping. My doctor gave me a cautious go ahead with that being that the FDA hasn't given it blessing. He is a pretty open minded guy and
has read some on the subject. I don't use very much snus, maybe, two pouches a day.
I know I should walk away from all of it but have had a difficult time. I had a weak moment on my boat and almost gave in. I don't want to start analogs for even one time, because I'd be off to the races. Having thought about the worst of two evils, thats when I decided to keep some snus around and investigate the safest possible snus I can find. I know this sounds weak, but I'm realistic. I smoked for thirty years and really enjoyed it. I tried all the patches, Chantix, gums, you name it. What's worked the best is vaping.I might stick with Camel, as I like the sweet taste. Years ago I used Beechnut
chew when out hunting and liked the taste. Never really got into chew all the time, maybe a few times a year. Didn't like spitting all the time. I may look into Ariva and Stonewall though. Thanks again for all your help. That is why we have such a great website.
Regards,
Dave

 

[hittman]

David I know cancer is a bad thing but can understand where you are coming from. Even after having gone thru that there has to be some quality of life. As many of us here have found out, sometimes the nic only in liquids isn't enough to keep us level. Katya is full of good advice and information and is nice enough to share it with us. The article she posted the link to is a good read. I think if you are going to use something still then I would check out the dissolvables like she said and maybe some swedish snus. Even if the camel is as safe, it doesn't seem to deliver the goods as well as the swedish snus.

 

[AllCoExPat]

No judgements here, Dave. We're among friends and we've all been in your proverbial "boat" at one time or another. I can go along for weeks without thinking about cigarettes, but then a craving with come out of nowhere and tackle me. Addiction is a funny thing that way. It's all about finding what works for you in order to stay off the cigarettes. Snus isn't a "safe" alternative to anything, but all the indications seem to point towards it being "safer." Sometimes that's the best we can hope for.

 

[David Bruno]

Vaping in itself has helped me. Only problem I've had is taste. I can't find a REAL
tobacco flavor. TW's State Express in 36 mg has been one that semi fits the bill.
I might try the general mini's and dissolvables for the tough times. I do prefer straight tobacco as opposed to Mint or Menthol. I have used menthol e juice for the throat
hit, but prefer the other. I just have had a hard time with giving up the pleasures of life as I used to know it. I played guitar all of my life from 10 years old. Made a living of it in the early 70's. I had to stop playing with the cancer. They had to cut tendons in the neck and upper shoulder, limiting hand and arm strength., picking hand. Don't know and Dr's don't say if I'll ever get that back. BUT I"M ALIVE and can enjoy the memories of the days. Tobacco is a real demon. I have four sons and preached anti smoking. 2 out of four don't. Being a hippy rock and roller in the day, I experimented with other substances and gave them up many years ago without a hint of the problems related to stopping tobacco.. I believe tobacco to be more addictive than most drugs. All I know is I'm gonna do what it takes to not pick up a camel analog. Got to get back to work. Thanks for all the help.
Dave

 

[Skrymr]

Vaping in itself has helped me. Only problem I've had is taste. I can't find a REAL
tobacco flavor. TW's State Express in 36 mg has been one that semi fits the bill.
I might try the general mini's and dissolvables for the tough times. I do prefer straight tobacco as opposed to Mint or Menthol. I have used menthol e juice for the throat
hit, but prefer the other. I just have had a hard time with giving up the pleasures of life as I used to know it. I played guitar all of my life from 10 years old. Made a living of it in the early 70's. I had to stop playing with the cancer. They had to cut tendons in the neck and upper shoulder, limiting hand and arm strength., picking hand. Don't know and Dr's don't say if I'll ever get that back. BUT I"M ALIVE and can enjoy the memories of the days. Tobacco is a real demon. I have four sons and preached anti smoking. 2 out of four don't. Being a hippy rock and roller in the day, I experimented with other substances and gave them up many years ago without a hint of the problems related to stopping tobacco.. I believe tobacco to be more addictive than most drugs. All I know is I'm gonna do what it takes to not pick up a camel analog. Got to get back to work. Thanks for all the help.
Dave

David, first of all a BIG congrats on beating you're cancer.

The dissolvables might do the trick for you. I have read good things about the Arriva and Stonewall, and not so good things about the Camel versions. Snus is IMO a good option too. Obiously it's you're decision on whether or not to continue tobacco use.

Have you tried the Halo e-liquids? They had the closest tobacco flavor of anything I tried, except for smooth-8 which was my favorite. That one is ginger flavored. Strange, but it grows on you. Torque 56, and Freedom got rave reviews about the tobacco flavors.

Good luck on you're quest for the right combo. We're here to help.

 

[hittman]

Some people might turn up their noses but I like dekang tobacco liquid. I use it to mix with 36mg menthol from bestecig. I know a few others have said in the smokeless forum that they like the dekang tobacco too. It doesn't hurt either that it's cheap.

 

[Katya]

Some of the best tobacco flavors I've found are made by Nhaler and by Vapor Station. Visit their subfora for more information. And juice review subforum. I highly recommend Drewbacco 1 and Plain Tobacco from Nhaler or any of the tobaccos from Vapor Station, Like Tampa (strong tobacco), Tennessee, Frisco (hazelnut undertone) or Phoenix. They also have menthols if you like them. You can get small samples from each vendor and find your favorite. Quality juices from good vendors and reasonable prices.

Best Kept Secret…Juice Jackpot at Vapor Station

OK... Vapor Station is for real... wow...

Vapor Station

 

[Caesarea]

Yep to the Dekang Tobacco - goes well with General MiniMints snus. Those are all I use now. I don't bother snusing when not working at the weekend or on vacation. Snus is my extra go-to when needed.

Good luck with finding a comfortable combination, David!



C.

 

[hittman]

Hey C. Where have you been hiding? I just got another 150ml of tobacco. I haven't tried vaporstation but katya is right about nhaler. They have really good liquids. I get my 555 from Drew. Have been buying from him since I got my first 510 kit from him. He is fantastic to do business with.