SNUS and MAOI

[jmcclimo2003]

Research hasn't shown definitively whether smokeless tobacco modulates MAOs the same way cigarette smoke does.

Has anyone noticed any difference between e-smoking alone vs e-smoking in tandem with snussing?

Also, how does snus alone compare with vaping alone for eliminating cravings for analogs?

I've seen some numbers online that indicate snus has been much more effective than NRT for helping smokers quit in Sweden, so I figured there must be some reason its more effective than nic gum or the patch.

 

[Bellinghamster]

I have no scientific data. But I can offer the following from personal experience.

I get two very different reactions from tobacco and other nicotine sources.

1) Tobacco (cigarettes, snus, nasal snuff, hookah): I get a nice "mellow" nicotine rush. Very relaxing... ahhh

2) Other (NRT gum, NRT lozenges, E-cig): Does the job in that I can curb the nic craving, but the "buzz" is MUCH more pharmacutical feeling. More racing heart/palpitations, sweats, jittery nerves, etc (even on low nic). I will say that the e-cig does a great job of telling my lungs to be happy, but the nic hit from nasal snuff has been really blowing my mind lately, without making me worry about my heart.

Not sure if related to MAOI, PH Level, or something else, but I'm still finding there are real and tangible differences with using tobacco (even without smoking it) and using some other forms of nicotine. Seems weird too, since our liquids are supposed to derive their nic from tobacco extracts....

 

[jmcclimo2003]

That's interesting.

I read an article that said that there is an MAO inhibitor in tobacco smoke that allows the nicotine to overcome your bodies desire to limit dopamine release, and that it's hypothesized that over several days your body flushes that MAO inhibitor out of your body and any nicotine replacement taken over that time becomes progressively less effective at giving you relief.

I think I might try adding a little snus to the mix and see if that allows the e-cig to give me any more relief akin to what an analog does.

 

[Frankie]

I don´t know anything about MAOIs, but for the comparison with Big Pharma stuff this might be the answer:

Snus simply delivers more. For the comparison with e-smoking... Personally I believe snus gives you much longer satisfaction on a slightly lower level. But that is personal taste. I think there are no data on nic levels in plasma for e-smoking.

 

[TropicalBob]

Nicotine blood levels seem so easy to test that it's surprising we can't add an "e-cigs" line to that graf. NOTHING equals a cigarette, as we can all easily see. Not even sucking 36mg liquid non-stop equals a cigarette. But, for me, snus tops e-smoking. I ran out of snus the other day and just about went crazy until I got to the tobacco store.

Then, back at home, I made a big order than includes some of the new 17mg Thunder snus, so I can see how that works. I must make myself not use Thunder in conjunction with anything else, however, to avoid OD. I usually e-smoke with a snus or Stonewall in my mouth.

For me, effectiveness is in the following order among the nicotine-replacement things I practice: Pipe smoking (can't do it publicly though), snus, dissolvable tobacco pieces, e-cigs, nasal snuff.

For whatever reason, I'm liking the pipe more and more. Started at two bowls a day, and I'm up to four or five every day now. Taste, aroma, etc., without inhaling smoke. The dissolvables also fill a critical need for me.

 

[smokingclam]

I think you will be suprised with the Thunder snus Bob. I was expecting a real wallop from this stuff but that wasn't the case at all. There's a pretty good initial hit but mostly it just lasts a long time. I can get 4-5 hours satisfaction on one pouch.
For me the General Onyx at 11mg packs more wallop than the Thunder at 16mg.

P.S next time you are having a snus crisis pm me. I have plenty on hand!

 

[WerkIt]

Has anyone noticed any difference between e-smoking alone vs e-smoking in tandem with snussing?

Snus has completely obliterated any desire for an analog, whereas e-smoking didn't. This could be to mixing e-liquids at too low of a level of nicotine.

I've seen some numbers online that indicate snus has been much more effective than NRT for helping smokers quit in Sweden, so I figured there must be some reason its more effective than nic gum or the patch.

It would be pointless to smoke a cigarette while snussing. There is no nicotine rush to be had from an analog when the nic levels in the blood stream are stabilized with the snus. E-smoking has faded into the background since disovering snus. I e-smoke while out in bars. I also like to e-smoke late at night. Why waste a portion if I am about to go to sleep?

This is day 5 without an analog. Although I have been e-smoking for 5 weeks, I was still smoking 2-4 analogs per day, but not any more, not with snus.

 

[Kitabz]

After receiving some snuff & bullets on Thursday followed by a consignment of Swedish snus on Friday, I've accidentally ended up hardly touching any e-cigs all weekend.

Admittedly on Saturday this was by design to see if I could do it and today I'm just getting more satisfaction from these other two alternatives. I've taken a few hits of various e-cigs but it's just not doing it for me today for some reason.

Bellinghampster's description further up this thread is exactly right, there is a difference in "hit" or feeling or something with real tobacco based products that don't exist with e-cigs.

[Edit - just thinking about this - at the beginning when I started vaping and taking way to much nicotine I was very jumpy. Today, I just feel calm even though I must have taken even more nicotine.]

I've seen several threads about the "missing" part within e-cigs. The latter are fantastic in their own way and so similar to analogs in use that I don't imagine I could have gone without analogs this long without them. But now that I've broken the lighting up every thirty minutes habit, I'm not sure what's next. My long term goal was to move to smokeless and save e-cigs as a boost/treat but I didn't expect these alternatives to be so... good! Popping in a snus and forgetting about it or taking a 2 second sniff of snuff is very convenient.

Maybe there is something on this MAOI theory after all.

 

[SnarkyClark]

I will add that my pipe relaxes me in a way that e-cigs can't touch. Plus I keep that calm, even mellow for quite awhile afterwards (1-2 hours). Even with 36mg e-liquid the e-cig effect lasts only about 10-15 minutes. Cigarettes were somewhere inbetween, lasting about a half hour.

I have a suspicion that the nicotine as delivered from tobac is a much more complex beast then most people think. I have read studies that perform thermagravimetric analysis of tobacco smoke and find the following nicotine-related substances:

Nicotine
Nicotine acetate
Nicotine malates
Nicotine bound with malic acid in ratios of 1:0.56, 1:1, and 1:2
(S)-nicotine bis[(2R,3R)-hydrogen tartrate] dihydrate

I haven't the foggiest about that last one, and have not been able to find any comparable analysis of nicotine substances delivered by smokeless tobacco. But I would be willing to bet that gum, patches, and e-cigs do not supply this 'nicocktail' that tobac does...

The first chemist that manages to formulate an e-liquid that provides those compounds in the same general ratio has a good chance of becoming very very wealthy indeed.

 

[Vapor Pete]

Nicotine blood levels seem so easy to test that it's surprising we can't add an "e-cigs" line to that graf. NOTHING equals a cigarette, as we can all easily see. Not even sucking 36mg liquid non-stop equals a cigarette. But, for me, snus tops e-smoking. I ran out of snus the other day and just about went crazy until I got to the tobacco store.

Then, back at home, I made a big order than includes some of the new 17mg Thunder snus, so I can see how that works. I must make myself not use Thunder in conjunction with anything else, however, to avoid OD. I usually e-smoke with a snus or Stonewall in my mouth.

For me, effectiveness is in the following order among the nicotine-replacement things I practice: Pipe smoking (can't do it publicly though), snus, dissolvable tobacco pieces, e-cigs, nasal snuff.

For whatever reason, I'm liking the pipe more and more. Started at two bowls a day, and I'm up to four or five every day now. Taste, aroma, etc., without inhaling smoke. The dissolvables also fill a critical need for me.

TB.... the KING of Tobacco! Wow bro, you use more kinds of tobacco/nicotine products in one day than I've used in my entire life.
Tropical bob... Tobacco Bob??? lol
My best,
-VP

 

[MonkeyMonk]

This is a facinating thread. And, I thank everyone for all the information. I got to get off analogs and I have a big fear of using other products and even of using the high nic juices for fear of becomming more addicted to nicotine. So, I'm not really making any progress, ...

I think this thread will help me... Some people can quit with the ecig on the first puff, some can go 0 nic right away, and some are like me having a hard time making the transfer... Recently, I found a store in the suburbs that had snus and stonewall and I got a little bit of each. I tried the snus at the hospital after about 1hr+ without an analog and boy did I feel it. I tried the stonewall when I was vaping in the car and then being a scardy-cat after accidently chomping it like a breath mint, spit it out. I want to try Stonewall before my hubby's big surgery date. I know I'll have everything in my arsenol on that date, and I need to know which will work best.

That graf is great!

Thanks everyone!!!

Off Topic Question: Will snus and stonewall be affected by that Waxman bill, too? If I understand correctly. The answer is yes it would. Is that correct? Will we still be able to get it from overseas? How are customs label declarations marked for snus and stonewall?

 

[TropicalBob]

Thanks, VP. Nicotine resides atop Bob's Food Pyramid.

MonkeyMonk: Some of the newer alternative nicotine products certainly could be affected if Waxman passes and becomes law. There is a cutoff date in that bill: products after that date get intense scrutiny and likely denial. Products before are less likely to suffer an outright ban. Stonewall and Ariva are pre-cutoff date. Camel snus and orbs are likely after that date. Swedish snus is a real question. The EU made them illegal. But they are legal in the U.S. and so far we can order however many we want from Swedish online sellers. I truly hope snus are not banned. They are the heart and soul of harm reduction.

My real fear is that they are regulated so tightly that they become ineffective in nicotine delivery, and all flavors are outlawed. That would be a death as certain as an outright ban.

 

[smokingclam]

Have to agree TB. If they ban snus I'd be upset also as this is my main source of nicotine also now. Speaking of Sweden have you ever recieved a duty fee from ordering from Northener? I just got hit with a $7 charge on top of the shipping cost of $31 for my last order.

Though I did order this one UPS because I wanted to get it before I left for a business trip.

 

[jojogardener]

Hi
I am new - vaping for about 2 weeks now, been feeling really weird and have been told that I should try some snus... to ease the constant craving and jittery feeling from vaping.
Do you know where I could get a small sample?
Can it be "added" to the carts - if so, how?
I dont want to rush and just buy from the 1st site I see....and then find out how many mistakes I made....
( I got a green smoke kit and find out from Natura and others that the 808D carts do not fit the bats since they are 808D-2!! - kind of makes me think twice before making any investments )

Any help would be greatly apreciated.....

thanks!

 

[Stubby]

Hi
I am new - vaping for about 2 weeks now, been feeling really weird and have been told that I should try some snus... to ease the constant craving and jittery feeling from vaping.
Do you know where I could get a small sample?
Can it be "added" to the carts - if so, how?
I dont want to rush and just buy from the 1st site I see....and then find out how many mistakes I made....
( I got a green smoke kit and find out from Natura and others that the 808D carts do not fit the bats since they are 808D-2!! - kind of makes me think twice before making any investments )

Any help would be greatly apreciated.....

thanks!

Well this post got resurrected from the grave. I think you're a bit confused as to what snus and nasal snuff is. It has no connection to PV's. TropicalBob did do some experimenting with soaking snus in PG... but not really recommended if you want to get rid of the PV jitters.

Snus is an oral tobacco placed under the upper lip and nasal snuff is a ground up tobacco that is sniffed. Don't confuse snus with the US chew or dip. There is no spitting with snus and is considered by the experts to be orders of magnitude less harmful then smoking. Many of us have found that PV's alone didn't cut it for quitting smoking and have been supplementing PV's, and in some cases completely replacing PV's with smokeless tobacco.

And yes, it will help greatly with the constant craving and jittery feeling from vaping.

 

[Caesarea]

Hi Jojo,
Come over to the other thread - I'm sure the others will have a few explanations, websites and recommendations for you!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...whats-under-your-lip-your-nose-right-now.html

Best,



C.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hi from me too, jojo . If you have cravings and jitters I have no doubt a discretely tucked Swedish snus in the upper lip will bring calm relaxation to those nerves, as well as give you an opportunity to lay the Pv down for a break. And I sure understand wanting to do some research, I learned a lot too late, t$$. The folks here in the smokeless forum have all been where you are now, so we're all here to help each other. Stick around and ask as many questions as you need to .

 

[jojogardener]

wow...thanks twisted victor and caesarea... I am stariting to feel like im finally getting somwhere!
i checked out getsnus.com and swedish-snus.com - do both carry swedish snus?
Is there a particular store anyone recomends?
I like mint anyone have any suggestions on which I should order and from whom?
I want to start feeling like a human again,,,,, "the brain is not available at this time, call back later" - ha!

 

[jojogardener]

easy there stubby....Im new and learning the way.......shoot I have never done this before...... be nice....

1st time vaping, 1st time on any type of chat/forum for me

 

[Skrymr]

Jojo, I was able to get some free samples of General products at a local tobacco shop. I'm not sure if I got lucky or not since it was the only shop within 50 miles that had any Swedish snus, but it might be worth it to look.

I think you asked for a mint snus recommendation? If so check out the general mini mints, they get great reviews.