Rally 'round the flag my friends !!!!

[Trumpybloke]

This is gonna be a short post ( strange for me huh ) but my head hurts and I need a day off the fight to tend to the animals around my place lol
It was suggested to me that perhaps we should use this forum to gather information , form ideas , please feel free to go wild and let us all know what you are thinking and/or doing

 

[cucurucho]

Ok.

The way I see it we have four options:

1) Continue to vape illegally

2) Return to smoking tobacco products

3) Quit altogether

4) Establish a grassroots campaign, getting as many non governmental anti smoking and civil rights groups on board as possible, and get people to send letters to their local representatives detailing exactly why we should not allow this ban to go ahead. Or in the case of Victoria, why the ban should be withdrawn.

To me, point 4 seems like the best option. I think Dr Laugesen's letter had a lot of very useful information in it that could help us in our cause. Like Trumpybloke, I need to take a break from all the thinking, but would appreciate other opinions on this idea.

 

[solution42]

Option 4 here also, I hardly slept last night trying to think through various options or maybe it was from nicotine overdose lol. I've sent off a few more emails today trying to establish the exact status in South Australia.

I'll try and pour over the legislation later tonight after I've had a chance to sleep, as I doubt any answers will come quickly via email.

 

[Phoenix]

Of course option 3 is my ultimate goal.....but for now I am all for option 4.
We need to establish a list of the relevant people/groups we need to contact/send letters/emails to.

I also think we need to perhaps have a list of 'alternative' adjectives pertaining to E-smoking to ensure we don't dig ourselves into a deeper hole when communicating with the 'others' .

 

[cucurucho]

Of course option 3 is my ultimate goal.....but for now I am all for option 4.
We need to establish a list of the relevant people/groups we need to contact/send letters/emails to.

I also think we need to perhaps have a list of 'alternative' adjectives pertaining to E-smoking to ensure we don't dig ourselves into a deeper hole when communicating with the 'others' .

Agreed.

I've also been thinking about setting up a website that serves to educate the public on the benefits of electronic nicotine inhalers. This could serve as a kind of portal for our cause. We could include on the site lists of politicians and NGOs to contact. I would also like to have Dr Laugesen on board to help us get some solid arguments together, maybe help write up a template letter, and be available as a source of quotes to use in the letters.

I have all the resources to get a website up and running, and will hopefully be able to have the foundations of it up in the next week. I would be asking for help from you guys in getting all the content together, and will be able to give anyone from here access to update the content (will probably use a content management system like droopal).

 

[Trumpybloke]

Ok I will chip in with what I have done so far
-Letter to the Minister (no response)

_letter to the Age seeking clarification of their reporting (no response)

-contacted Asian retailers suggesting they pass on to manufacturers (replied stating sympathies, manufacturers informed, suggested retailers and manufacturers locally in Aus lobby )

-Dr Murray Laugesen ( onside )

-Dr Neal Benowitz ( eminent nicotine researcher/expert) initial reply positive, have re-written seeking info/studies/whatever he can point us to

On the to-do list:

-Enquire re pharmaceutical nicotine , can it be prescribed?
-draft letter to oppn health minister
-ongoing researching on issues

must remember to stop and smell roses lol --- sheep have been knocking on back door looking for pats and attention ... dog now feels bonded to watertank rather than master...chickens planning revolt due to henhouse pollution....vegie patch enjoying the break and going to seed, hmmmmm silverbeet is going beserk .... hmmmm wonder if you can vape it ??????

 

[cucurucho]

Good stuff trumpy.

I'm starting to get the site set up now.

Any ideas for a domain name?

 

[Trumpybloke]

hmmmm domain name??
thats gonna be a tricky one, it needs to state who we are, but not have bad connotations, terms like vaping etc would have been great BEFORE the ban , but now would only serve to weird us??
Maybe something like nicotine-of-choice?
alternativenic.com.au?
no-baccy.com.au?
I am trying to stay away from sensitive alliances that will do us no good?

 

[cucurucho]

Hmmm.... good points. I was thinking of something with 'vape' in the title, but you've changed my mind.

Also, my hosts are in the US, and can't register .com.au domains. So it would have to be .com .net .org or .info

baccyfree.org is available.

 

[Trumpybloke]

I likey baccyfree !!!
hopefully the others will chime in , but I am assuming they have lives and will be out and about LOL

 

[Phoenix]

Here I am giving my nod to 'baccy-free'

 

[cucurucho]

Well I think I'll just go ahead and register it

 

[Trumpybloke]

tres cool mah man !!!

i think i will register Trumpysbrainhurts.com

 

[cucurucho]

Hah. Maybe I'll register it first and sell it to you for $500

Seriously though, http://baccy-free.org/ is registered, will take a couple of days before it goes online. In the mean time, I've set up Welcome to the Frontpage with the content management software I'll be using. Go have a play, and hopefully we can figure out how it all works by the time the domain name kicks in. I should be able to just copy it across from there.

edit well fancy that, it's working already!
Seems to be a problem with the registration page. I'll look into it.

edit 2 user registration is working now. Post here with your usernames and I'll give you administrative access.

 

[Trumpybloke]

As a result of watching a CBC News video , I have mailed Dr Carl Phillips in Canada seeking anything lol
If anyone finds anyone they think might be good to get onside , please let me know and I will attempt to contact them?

Hello Dr Phillips,

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a 44 year old man who has smoked for 20 years with a slightly over a pack a day habit. I have been tobacco free for just a short time now and have been using electronic cigarettes in that time.
I feel motivated to contact you after seeing your comments on a CBCNEWS report about electronic smoking in the UK and Canada
There is so little scientific evidence on electronic smoking, but with reading some reports such as that prepared by Dr Murray Laugesen of Health NZ, plus the simple logic that I can choose to inhale a few ingredients that I can more or less see aren't that damaging to my health , compared to the nasty combination of thousands found in commercial tobacco.
As you may be aware , the Victorian Government has now banned the sale of nicotine for human consumption and the hardware to dispense it to individuals as at 1/1/2009 , Depending on the sources, it also appears simply the use of devices and even simply possession is now a matter of legality.
Our Government contacted retailers of these items at 10 am of the morning of New Years Eve.... a 14 hour notification that they were in effect closing them down...I have never seen such underhanded actions hiding behind "Legality"
As I am in possession of legally purchased nicotine ( bought before our government declared it an offence) I became a criminal at midnight on the 31/12/08 .

I am attempting to gather support and evidence to take to our officials to try and make this grossly ridiculous situation more clear to all concerned. I cannot see how anyone would authorise tobacco over electronic cigarettes with regard to public safety???
I understand nicotine is a poison , and it is this reasoning they have used to hide behind by classifying it a schedule 7 class dangerous poison and denying sale or import to individuals . I am not talking about concentrated nicotine, it applies to ALL concentrations , even to the 4 mg cartridges !!!

In approaching you , I am hoping that you might wade into the debate with us , and perhaps share any evidence/reports/ in fact ANYTHING you might be able to dig up that might help educate our officials who have done this to us here.

I have contacted Dr Murray Laugesen and he seems supportive, as does Dr Neal Benowitz, is there any other eminent sources you might suggest I contact ?

I thank you for simply taking the time to read this, any ponderings you may have on the matter or resources you can provide or direct me to would be a welcome bonus.

I hope 2009 is treating you well,

Cheers
Simon Willson

Here is his site.. maily on smokeless tobacco , but more excitingly they are about to trial/ are trialling e-cigs according to their forum

http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/index.htm

 

[cucurucho]

Excellent stuff Trumpy. The harm reduction angle definitely seems like the best one to take.

Seems you've gathered quite a bit of information now. Let's get to putting it up on http://baccy-free.org/

If you register over there, I'll give you admin access so you can create content and categories.

 

[Trumpybloke]

Done Cucu....

Sadly my lifelong best mates mum succumbed to mouth cancer , I will be missing for most of next week as I will be down south on the coast for the funeral etc .... keep the fight and research going guys n dolls
Seeya when I get back !!!

 

[Ads1969]

Hi, Ive been trying to get clarification, OK so its currently illegal to sell e-cigs in Australia, but is it illegal to use them?.

I just got my first e-cig yesterday and brought it to work and they were initially happy to me to vape at work till some one found the article in The Age "Close, but no cigarette"

It says in one paragraph "In some countries, they are only allowed as medical devices. But not in Australia, where they are banned outright."

That unfortunate ambiguous paragraph meant that they asked me to stop anywhere in the building till they could get more information.

 

[cucurucho]

It is illegal to use them as long as they contain nicotine, as the nicotine in the liquid is considered a schedule 7 poison and is thus subject to the tightest regulation.

In my mind, vaping with nicotine is equally as illegal as jaywalking.

 

[Ads1969]

I refer to your enquiry regarding the product E cigarette. If the E cigarette contains nicotine which research indicates that it does, then the e cigarette is a regulated poison under the provisions of the Health (Drugs&Poisons) Regulation 1996. Legislation can be accessed on line at dub dub dub legislation dot qld dot gov dot au

Regulation 271 of H(D&P)R states:
271 Prohibition on dispensing etc. regulated poisons
(1) A person must not dispense, manufacture, obtain, possess, prescribe, sell or use a regulated poison unless the person�
(Refer to exemptions contained in this section. E cigarettes are not exempted.)

Regulated poisons are detailed in Appendix 7, Section 3 of the regulation.

The powers of Inspectors are contained in Section 153A of the Health Act 1937.

Section 153A of the Health Act 1937 onwards deals with the seizure of an E cigarette for instance and states:
Section 153A Seizing evidence at a place that may be entered without consent or warrant
An inspector who enters a place that may be entered under this division without the consent of the occupier and without a warrant, may seize a thing at the place if the inspector reasonably believes the thing is evidence of an offence against a relevant provision or this part.

An E cigarette is at present a regulated poison in Qld and is a breach of the H(D&P)R to obtain, possess, use, sell etc. An inspector under the Act/Regulation has the authority to investigate a person who may be in possession of an E cigarette and seize same. Legal proceedings may also be instituted.

This advice may be distributed to any employees in possession, using etc an E cigarette.

regards


Philip Flay
Environmental Health Officer
Environmental Health - Windsor Office
Brisbane Northside Population Health Unit
Central Population Health Services
Population Health Queensland
Bryden Street
Windsor Q 4030
Locked Bag 2
Stafford DC Qld 4053
Telephone: 07-36241111
Fax: 07-36241159

Help! What can I do now!!??