Possible alternatives to PG and VG

[kinabaloo]

A thread to discuss possible alternatives to VG and PG.

PG: allergy issue
VG: decomposes somewhat

One likely candidate is PEG-400 (polyethylene glycol, avg weight 400; BP 250C). Used by Sedansa in their proprietary juice. A cursory investigaton showed that PEG-400 is possibly the most benign of the PEGs, although it is still worth considering lower-weight PEGs as these would have a lower BP.

I have found 2 other possibilities that are intriguing because they are said to produce a more dense and longer-lasting fog:

* DiPropylene Glycol (DPG) BP 230C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipropylene_glycol
Might not share allergy issue with PG. Another possibility likely to produce fog is TriPropylene Glycol (TPG) BP265C http://www.dow.com/propyleneglycol/prod/tpg.htm though DPG looks the better of the two

and

* TriEthylene Glycol (TEG) BP 285C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethylene_glycol (Although DiEthylene Glycol is safer than Ethylene Glycol it is not a safe choice.)


SAFETY NOTICE
This thread is for discussion purposes only. Do NOT try any new chemical mentioned here in your e-cig.

 

[jim420]

Ethanol....FLAMMABLE..possibly explosive in vapor form. I wouldn't do it...plus, if you vape and get pulled over by a cop, you will most likely PEG the breathalizer.

 

[kinabaloo]

Ethanol....FLAMMABLE..possibly explosive in vapor form. I wouldn't do it...plus, if you vape and get pulled over by a cop, you will most likely PEG the breathalizer.

This is a silly disruption of a serious thread that took time to research.

 

[jim420]

This is a silly disruption of a serious thread that took time to research.

So you are saying that it is silly to point out some of the properties of what you propose as a serious alternative to VG or PG, then have the nerve to PM me requesting that I remove it?
Respectfully, no. If you feel that my statement is untrue or "silly", I suggest that you get a forum moderator to remove my post.
I as far as it being a serious thread, at least I spelled ethanol correctly.
Oh! you edited out about the ethanol. Very smooth.

 

[kinabaloo]

jim420 - this is a discussion thread in a forum about experimentation; it is not a tips thread or forum. AND I had already posted a big red warning.

 

[katink]

Kinabaloo, just a FYI: here is a thread on a german forum, with many (science-based) remarks on the different used base-fluids (including possible side-effects and thoughts on the weight of these). This is the english translation through google... still gives a reasonable translation, even if not all nuances can be caught: Google Translate

 

[kinabaloo]

Kinabaloo, just a FYI: here is a thread on a german forum, with many (science-based) remarks on the different used base-fluids (including possible side-effects and thoughts on the weight of these). This is the english translation through google... still gives a reasonable translation, even if not all nuances can be caught: Google Translate

Katink - thanks ! I will have a look ...

edit (add): I have read some of the referenced articles, but will be good to keep an eye out there

The Google translate is great (seriously), but also comes up with so many gems, like this: "I know God is not to panic, but it went through me head."

 

[kinabaloo]

From the website mentioned above I have made the following notes:

PEG-400

Slightly bitter taste, faintly sweet. More viscous than PG.

Kirsten wrote:
Bei Temperaturen über 150 °C tritt eine thermische Zersetzung ein.
At temperatures above 150 ° C and a thermal decomposition occurs one.

Die Zersetzungsprodukte sind CO, CO2 und Wasser.
The decomposition products are CO, CO2 and water.

Dass Kohlenmonoxid dabei ist, gefällt mir auch nicht.
The fact that carbon monoxide is, I like not.

*If true, this is way below the boiling point. I found this reference re decomposition temp. of 200C for PEG-200 : http://www.2spi.com/catalog/chem/labels/poly.shtml

Links I found of relevance to decomposition of PEG:
http://www.padfield.org/tim/cfys/ppubs/pegdeg.pdf PEG-4000 but perhaps relevant

MSDS: POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL

ps:

Even with PG it is possible to get trace amounts of formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, hydroxyacetone; of which the formaldehyde is perhaps most worrying. Not sure from where came this info, although I have seen mention of these in relation to VG.

 

[exogenesis]

Good bit of research kin.,
just better say that the 1st link said PEG-200
boiling point is 210'F not 'C (i.e. 99'C)

 

[kinabaloo]

Good bit of research kin.,
just better say that the 1st link said PEG-200
boiling point is 210'F not 'C (i.e. 99'C)

Well spotted. Might be a typo though. 99C seems too low. Can't find a confirmation either way.

 

[katink]

While you guys are on this subject: how about finding a base-ingredient that doesn't give any visible vapor? For the needed/wanted 'stealth-occassions'?