Petition to prevent FDA regulations

[VapApe]

Ok say I start a site called Acme Labs all I sell on the site is phama grade nicotine liquid in small amounts . And some lab gear for handling it .
No were on the site do I is suggest what it could be used for.
What a customer dose with it is their business. Be it spray for their garden or heaven forbid use it in an e-cig

Its a legal chemical. Not a lot could be done about it. Unless the FDA bans nicotine.

 

[Petrodus]

Ok say I start a site called Acme Labs all I sell on the site is phama grade nicotine liquid in small amounts . And some lab gear for handling it .
No were on the site do I is suggest what it could be used for.
What a customer dose with it is their business. Be it spray for their garden or heaven forbid use it in an e-cig

Its a legal chemical. Not a lot could be done about it.

I'm guessing it wouldn't take the FDA long to put 2 and 2 together
and enact a law (because they can) then come a knockin' on your door.

 

[FloridaNoob]

They can regulate, they can't legislate.

 

[VapApe]

( They can regulate, they can't legislate.)

True this, the FDA have been caught over reaching before and lost.

 

[Petrodus]

They can regulate, they can't legislate.

The commissioner of the FDA can create law by creating regulation,
can enforce the law against those that the FDA claims violated it,
and can judge the violation.

So... The FDA is All Powerful with in it's sphere.

 

[FloridaNoob]

psst.....remember when the FDA tried to regulate by banning e-cigs, they lost. So naw, not all powerful.

 

[kristin]

Ok say I start a site called Acme Labs all I sell on the site is phama grade nicotine liquid in small amounts . And some lab gear for handling it .
No were on the site do I is suggest what it could be used for.
What a customer dose with it is their business. Be it spray for their garden or heaven forbid use it in an e-cig

Its a legal chemical. Not a lot could be done about it. Unless the FDA bans nicotine.

That's great for the few hundred experienced vapers willing to DIY, but what about the 45 million smokers who haven't even tried an e-cigarette yet or the vast majority of vapers who use successfully use pre-filled cig-styles? How many do you think will try an FDA-approved-as-tobacco-product e-cigarette, pre-filled with 2 flavors and 4mg and then go buy nicotine off some web site to DIY? Do we just say, "Oh well. Too bad for them?"

Alcohol and tobacco are legal, as well. But not just anybody is allowed to sell those to consumers. It may be a short term fix until the government catches on and starts requiring expensive licensing and lab standards for businesses that sell nicotine solutions. It's better we all focus on fighting the battle at hand and win.

 

[Bill Godshall]

The FSPTCA defines a "tobacco product" as product derived from tobacco and intended for human consumption, and doesn't base it on claims made (or not made) by manufacturers.

If FDA proposes and approves limits on nicotine in e-cigarette products, it will create a potentially huge black market for e-liquid.

 

[FlyingV]

Thank you kristin. This is also my concern, the people that have not yet found e-cigarettes, and will be doomed to continue to smoke. While many vapers are concerning themselves with stocking up and work arounds, I believe we need to all work together prevent that scenario.

That's great for the few hundred experienced vapers willing to DIY, but what about the 45 million smokers who haven't even tried an e-cigarette yet or the vast majority of vapers who use successfully use pre-filled cig-styles? How many do you think will try an FDA-approved-as-tobacco-product e-cigarette, pre-filled with 2 flavors and 4mg and then go buy nicotine off some web site to DIY? Do we just say, "Oh well. Too bad for them?"

Alcohol and tobacco are legal, as well. But not just anybody is allowed to sell those to consumers. It may be a short term fix until the government catches on and starts requiring expensive licensing and lab standards for businesses that sell nicotine solutions. It's better we all focus on fighting the battle at hand and win.

 

[nchamber68]

The FSPTCA defines a "tobacco product" as product derived from tobacco and intended for human consumption, and doesn't base it on claims made (or not made) by manufacturers.

If FDA proposes and approves limits on nicotine in e-cigarette products, it will create a potentially huge black market for e-liquid.

I agree completely that it will create a huge black market, the same way that alcohol prohibition created a huge black market.

The thing too many people today don't seem to remember or understand is that no government, law, or regulation can squash or control human nature, or force people to do things they are not already either willing or inclined to do. That has been proven millions upon millions of times throughout history. Most of the people I know who are successfully using PV's and nicotine liquid are not just going to quietly give up and go back to smoking, and yes, most of them are fully willing to break the law to keep vaping (if it comes down to that).

Right now I am doing everything I can think of to stop the FDA. I have made sure everyone I know is aware of what the FDA is trying to do, and that it is detrimental to the health of all smokers who might potentially use this less harmful alternative to save their lives (and asked that they pass the info on to their friends too). I am also signing the petitions, calling reps and senators, writing letters, and asking my friends to help by doing so as well.

Sadly, I have very little hope any of it will make an iota of difference. The people in charge of making these recommendations to congress have obviously already made up their minds and have no intention of listening to anything they don't want to hear. They are all quite clearly biased toward keeping people smoking or using their useless NRT's, and that is most likely because they have a vested interest in doing so...like the stock they (or their friends) own in the BP companies that sell the NRT's or the 'consulting' fees they (or their friends) regularly receive from BP companies.

So, even though I'm going to keep trying to stop the FDA, I am also stocking up on plain nicotine liquid as well. The plain nic liquid is pretty stable (for up to a year) without freezing, but it can be stored indefinitely if it is divided into smaller amber glass bottles and stored in the freezer until ready for use. I plan to have much more than enough nic liquid to last me for a very long time before the FDA submits their proposal to congress.

Yes, I would absolutely prefer to have vaping benefit every smoker who wants to quit for the foreseeable future, but my main priority has to be keeping myself from smoking agian. I already spent way too many years smoking, and I know that if my nic liquid was reduced to 4mg or less right now I'd be right back on them again. I will not just quietly give up and go back to smoking, and I know nothing other than my PV has ever kept me for doing so before. So, regardless of anything the FDA does I will make sure I have what I need to stay a non-smoker...even if that ultimately means I have to become a chemist so I can extract my own nicotine once I run out.

 

[DC2]

Right now I am doing everything I can think of to stop the FDA. I have made sure everyone I know is aware of what the FDA is trying to do, and that it is detrimental to the health of all smokers who might potentially use this less harmful alternative to save their lives (and asked that they pass the info on to their friends too). I am also signing the petitions, calling reps and senators, writing letters, and asking my friends to help by doing so as well.

This is what we should all be doing.

Sadly, I have very little hope any of it will make an iota of difference. The people in charge of making these recommendations to congress have obviously already made up their minds and have no intention of listening to anything they don't want to hear. They are all quite clearly biased toward keeping people smoking or using their useless NRT's, and that is most likely because they have a vested interest in doing so...like the stock they (or their friends) own in the BP companies that sell the NRT's or the 'consulting' fees they (or their friends) regularly receive from BP companies.

While there is a lot of validity to your statements, you should have more hope.

I predict that if the FDA screws us over, we will come together in ways few of us even dare to hope for.
In fact, we may just shock the world.

So, even though I'm going to keep trying to stop the FDA, I am also stocking up on plain nicotine liquid as well. The plain nic liquid is pretty stable (for up to a year) without freezing, but it can be stored indefinitely if it is divided into smaller amber glass bottles and stored in the freezer until ready for use. I plan to have much more than enough nic liquid to last me for a very long time before the FDA submits their proposal to congress.

But in case I'm wrong, this is a wise move.

 

[nchamber68]

I try to be optomistic about the outcome with the FDA. I'd love to see them start to encourage vaping and just regulate the liquids for purity or even implement the standards we have already suggested.

However, as much as I want that to be the case I'd still much rather be safe than sorry...Hence the stocking up.

I do think that, eventually, our passion and commitment will win out. We know where those smokers are, we were there. We know the FDA is fundamentally wrong about vaping.

They may win a few battles, but we will win the war.

 

[purelyscientific]

I refuse to obey any unreasonable regulation imposed on e-cigarettes by this corrupt, self regulated institution. I refuse to pay any tax or follow and regulations they impose that I do not agree with. If they try to regulate nicotine levels or tax e-cigs hardware/nicotine then I will buy illegally from other countries such as India.

Electronic cigarettes are not tobacco or NRTs, regardless if they say they are or not and I refuse to recognize their power to make such distinctions.

 

[Petrodus]

I refuse to obey any unreasonable regulation imposed on e-cigarettes by this corrupt, self regulated institution. I refuse to pay any tax or follow and regulations they impose that I do not agree with. If they try to regulate nicotine levels or tax e-cigs hardware/nicotine then I will buy illegally from other countries such as India.

Electronic cigarettes are not tobacco or NRTs, regardless if they say they are or not and I refuse to recognize their power to make such distinctions.

You'll be in good company with friends
in the "underground" community.

 

[Vocalek]

Three days remain to collect additional signatures. We hit the target 25,000 several days ago and the tally now exceeds 26,000.

Wouldn't it be great to hit 30,000 by the 13th?

 

[jlew]

The total thus far is 26,345 -- I too would love to see it hit the 30,000 mark

I also must agree with many here on this page alone - that I refuse to adhere to such ridiculous and unjust
regulation save it be for regulation that is based for quality control purposes or labeling.

I refuse to obey any unreasonable regulation imposed on e-cigarettes by this corrupt, self regulated institution. I refuse to pay any tax or follow and regulations they impose that I do not agree with. If they try to regulate nicotine levels or tax e-cigs hardware/nicotine then I will buy illegally from other countries such as India.

Electronic cigarettes are not tobacco or NRTs, regardless if they say they are or not and I refuse to recognize their power to make such distinctions.

And I agree

There is absolutely no sense in what they are trying considering they have approved Chantrix and that
alone has caused the deaths and suicides of numerous people. They have made a mockery of the facts
and have made unsubstantiated claims about toxic products in e-cigs that simply are not present or were
is such low amounts that it would take a gallon to cause a stomach ache.

They have misinformed all of society to a danger that does not exist while covering up facts bout the dangers
of the products they have approved. They have lied to the public about the results of so called testing
they did and refuse to see the facts - that for over 5 to 6 years, there have been more than a million
deaths due to cigarettes but ZERO side effects or deaths from e-cigs. They continue to push bad publicity
and false information yet do not tell the public about the millions of devices in use by millions of people, most
who have used them for a long time and have undergone radical life changes because of a much better product
than they can offer. They have lied to the public about the dangers of their own NRT's and about the fact
that the E-Cig contains the same basic products in them as the NRT's...

They are causing the potential for businesses to be shut and people to lose their jobs, and for many many people
to give up something that has been the only thing to work for them to give up tobacco use. They are posing a
risk to our health - to Everyone's health - yet they claim they are doing FOR our health.

The FDA needs exposed to the public and the public needs to do something about it before the FDA kills
us all with their untested but markets drugs and food additives and such.

It is funny how the FDA says the E-Cig is so dangerous because it has not been tested but how many
drugs does the FDA allow to slip through the cracks untested fully before it hits the market?
Every Singel Commercial on TV that says:
"If you have taken XXXX, you may have a law suit if you have suffered XXXX"

I am planning on stocking up soon and I hope there will be someone around who can help supply some
small items that I cannot stock on because I will not give up my e-cigs just so they can DICTATE I use
their Crap NRT's or go back to the disgusting smell and feeling of tobacco cigarettes!!!

 

[purelyscientific]

Bravo my good sir. I couldn't have said it better myself! :claps:

 

[USDMS13]

So what is the course of action after the set amount of signatures are attained? does it go to the president directly? is it put in file "13"? Getting the signatures is great! But what happens after that?

 

[Petrodus]

So what is the course of action after the set amount of signatures are attained? does it go to the president directly? is it put in file "13"? Getting the signatures is great! But what happens after that?

That's the Big Question

 

[Natedogg1026]

I refuse to obey any unreasonable regulation imposed on e-cigarettes by this corrupt, self regulated institution. I refuse to pay any tax or follow and regulations they impose that I do not agree with. If they try to regulate nicotine levels or tax e-cigs hardware/nicotine then I will buy illegally from other countries such as India.

Electronic cigarettes are not tobacco or NRTs, regardless if they say they are or not and I refuse to recognize their power to make such distinctions.

I agree totally. Wont be the first time i inhaled something the gov. doesn't approve of.