On a serious note, FDAs deeming regulations

[B2L]

I wanted to make sure as many people as possible see this.

CASAA: CASAA Assessment of FDA Deeming Regulation, April 25, 2014

With the FDA finally showing their hand, at least hinting at it, now is the time for vapers to really come together. I would encourage anyone who hasn't to join CASAA for updates and calls to action.

Any of us who haven't been politically active need to get on board before vaping as we know it is legislated out of existence in the name of "keeping the public safe"

I would hate to see Rob, and other small business people, have to jump through these hoops only to be bankrupted or shut down.

 

[scemmer]

I'm not getting this hysteria. FDA ain't perfect, for sure. But as a consumer, I'd like to know what I'm putting in my lungs. If a vendor can't make a profit on a safe product, someone else will. reosmods is in no danger as far as I can tell.

 

[six]

I'm not getting this hysteria. FDA ain't perfect, for sure.

Should have been around when the FDA was having US Customs confiscate shipments of everything (not just liquid, but everything - batteries, attys, cartos, promotional materials, t-shirts... you name it. If it came from any e-cig related source, they locked it up in a customs cage). Some new/small vendors didn't make it through having their money tied up in shipments the FDA stole from them. It put more than a few out of business. So, you betcha. The FDA aint perfect... In fact, they are jack booted thugs and they aint lookin' out for you are me even a minute of the day.

As far as the REO sub-forum goes, well, I'm sure there are no worries about customs confiscations because these REOs are US made, but if they do something stupid like make him stamp a warning in every REO or have stickers made, or include some govt propaganda in the box at his own expense, well, that takes money out of either Robs pocket or yours and mine.

 

[malkuth]

I'm not getting this hysteria. FDA ain't perfect, for sure. But as a consumer, I'd like to know what I'm putting in my lungs. If a vendor can't make a profit on a safe product, someone else will. reosmods is in no danger as far as I can tell.

Should have been around when the FDA was having US Customs confiscate shipments of everything (not just liquid, but everything - batteries, attys, cartos, promotional materials, t-shirts... you name it. If it came from any e-cig related source, they locked it up in a customs cage). Some new/small vendors didn't make it through having their money tied up in shipments the FDA stole from them. It put more than a few out of business. So, you betcha. The FDA aint perfect... In fact, they are jack booted thugs and they aint lookin' out for you are me even a minute of the day.

As far as the REO sub-forum goes, well, I'm sure there are no worries about customs confiscations because these REOs are US made, but if they do something stupid like make him stamp a warning in every REO or have stickers made, or include some govt propaganda in the box at his own expense, well, that takes money out of either Robs pocket or yours and mine.

I think you should rethink your statement. According to the document, they WILL have an affect on REOs as well. Once it is past their 75 day waiting period, we will be able to obtain REO's for 2 more years. Rob will have to file the paperwork, submit it and have the REO approved, or it will be banned. There are currently 8 different models of REOs that would each have to be approved by the FDA. I have heard a cost of $1500 per. That would be an added cost of $12,000. How much will the REO have to increase in cost to cover that? In addition, the FDA could also require that each of the individual doors also receive an approval, but I am not sure on that, it is possible that the doors could be listed as a repair item and be covered under the mod approval itself.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

It really depends on their intent which they do not say yet. If they do indeed consider hardware a tobacco product in the end with all associated paperwork then filing fees are a drop in the bucket. Providing the information they could possibly ask for per item makes "hysteria" seem like a mild response. Again, this is only what they could do, no one knows at this point what they will do.

"FDA estimates that it will take each respondent approximately 5,000 hours to obtain an order from FDA allowing the marketing of a new tobacco product. FDA's estimate includes anticipated burden for the writing of an application, including intra-company edits and approvals, of approximately 200 hours. In addition, FDA expects that conducting the necessary scientific investigations for a new tobacco product (either in-house or via a third-party consultant) will require, on average, 4,800 hours. "

 

[supertrunker]

Not to mention that so far the FDA has to my knowledge not granted a single approval to date. Nor are they geared up, with staff and systems in place to process vast numbers of applications.

Total shambles! Furthermore, the ambiguity in the wording of their deeming proposals makes me suspect that a great deal of the wrinkles will be thrashed out in court in the future.

T

 

[SavePaperVapor]

I'm not getting this hysteria. FDA ain't perfect, for sure. But as a consumer, I'd like to know what I'm putting in my lungs. If a vendor can't make a profit on a safe product, someone else will. reosmods is in no danger as far as I can tell.

You don't get the hysteria? FDA oversees cigarettes, yet they don't demand that those products label ingredients on the package. But eliquid, apparently that needs the labeling. If you can't see the forest from the trees I don't know what to tell you. On the plus side it will probably take 10 years to get through half of the products sent in for regulation.

 

[FAAmecanic]

This FDA regulation is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at handing over the ecig industry to big tobacco. Small to medium sized businesses will not be able to afford the application process.

As far as mods go...according to this regulatuon, if your mod was not out prior to 2007, then you will not be able to sell it without going thru the approval process. Which could cost thousands of dollars just for them to review it and no guarantees for it to pass, and as some have already pointed out the FDA can make a multitude of excuses to not approve a device.

Money..This is all about money. Big tobacco wins a corner on the ecig market, and the us govnt wins the tax dollars.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[oldbroad]

You don't get the hysteria? FDA oversees cigarettes, yet they don't demand that those products label ingredients on the package. But eliquid, apparently that needs the labeling. If you can't see the forest from the trees I don't know what to tell you. On the plus side it will probably take 10 years to get through half of the products sent in for regulation.

each cig pkg. would have to be about 2 ft. high and 2 ft. wide to accommodate all the chemicals in them
(

 

[supertrunker]

Not necessarily.

World's smallest magazine cover created using IBM 'nano chisel' - Telegraph

T

 

[oldbroad]

This FDA regulation is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at handing over the ecig industry to big tobacco. Small to medium sized businesses will not be able to afford the application process.

As far as mods go...according to this regulatuon, if your mod was not out prior to 2007, then you will not be able to sell it without going thru the approval process. Which could cost thousands of dollars just for them to review it and no guarantees for it to pass, and as some have already pointed out the FDA can make a multitude of excuses to not approve a device.

Money..This is all about money. Big tobacco wins a corner on the ecig market, and the us govnt wins the tax dollars.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Bottom line folks... s'what it's all about....

 

[solace.discord]

each cig pkg. would have to be about 2 ft. high and 2 ft. wide to accommodate all the chemicals in them
(

I feel anything that the FDA makes apply to e-cigs and vaporizer industry, needs to apply to the rest of the tobacco industry. labeling, components, accessories, all of it.

let's make it fair and balanced. wanna regulate and tax my atomizer, mod, etc? then apply the same to cigarettes, cigars, smokeless, ashtrays and rolling machines and cigar cases and lighters and matches and all the rest.

I don't think most of what has been proposed will take place. liquids with nicotine is all they (barely) really can make a decision on/tax/regulate, and most vendors are already on board with what *should* happen.

 

[tmel]

Money is the most disgusting thing man ever invented.

50% of ALL wealth in the US is controlled by 400ish or so people, the 0.0001%.

It's only a matter of time before the revolution to remove inequality from our society happens. 400 rich ....s vs a few million? It's really just waiting game.

 

[oldbroad]

Money is the most disgusting thing man ever invented.

50% of ALL wealth in the US is controlled by 400ish or so people, the 0.0001%.

It's only a matter of time before the revolution to remove inequality from our society happens. 400 rich ....s vs a few million? It's really just waiting game.

I SO agree with you!

 

[B2L]

This FDA regulation is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at handing over the ecig industry to big tobacco. Small to medium sized businesses will not be able to afford the application process.

Money..This is all about money. Big tobacco wins a corner on the ecig market, and the us govnt wins the tax dollars.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I think you nailed it right on the head.

 

[ltrainer]

Not necessarily.

World's smallest magazine cover created using IBM 'nano chisel' - Telegraph

T

From the article:
Researchers have created the smallest magazine cover in the world, using a tiny chisel with a heatable silicon tip to make an image so small that 2,000 of them could fit on a grain of salt.

Wow thats got to be the biggest grain of salt I've ever seen.

 

[B2L]

Not necessarily.

World's smallest magazine cover created using IBM 'nano chisel' - Telegraph

T

Using this, you could fit the US tax code on something about the size of a medium sized elephant.

 

[knotin1]

There are ways around selling mods in a way where they are not "intended" to be used for ecigs.

 

[B2L]

There are ways around selling mods in a way where they are not "intended" to be used for ecigs.

I can see 510 led flashlights becoming very popular.

 

[Wickeddeuce]

Here is something I just sent to Nick (GrimmGreen) and my fellow hosts over on Vapeon.tv this is something that I just drafted right now in regards to combating the FDA should things not work out in our favor...

On to the FDA, my wife and I are working on coming up with various scenarios. One of which is instead of getting every single flavor registered, if we can get all flavored liquids 0 nic and each vendor sells a nicotine solution, hopefully in that scenario they would only need to certify the nicotine solution. I am hoping this would suffice. Much more affordable, albeit ....ty, to pay for 1 instead of 30... and would still give you the opportunity to offer various flavors. I realize this is more than likely a pipe dream of this happening, but I will be damned if I don't spin ideas. Hell, for that matter instead of everyone working against each other... get a conglomerate of various vendors together to start 1 company that offers only unflavored nicotine in various solutions and levels to pool resources and only have that conglomerate offer that one product and split the cost among yourselves...

Then, each individual company no longer offers nicotine in their liquid and just offers pg, vg, flavorings, 0 NIC. Theoretically this should work, however it may not... just kind of spit balling a bit here...

And, once we make that distinction, we can go further and try to separate the mods, and tanks, and rebuildables, and various products to be separate from nicotine and tobacco products.

We can make the argument that the while the government put a slap down on alcoholic energy drinks, they have not stopped alcohol and energy drinks from being sold, whos to say you cant mix one and the other... but using separate companies, the argument can be made that you are not offering a nicotine product and the mods that you offer are intended to be used with 0 nic liquid and as such should not be subject to tobacco products.

Hell, if we can get someone out there to create a flashlight adapter for 510 connections we can add that and offer the mods as modified flashlights and that not all mods are being used for vaping, instead they are being used as flashlights, and we can not help those who use atomizers on the mods...

I realize that this in particular is not an ideal approach however, the mods themselves should not be up to scrutiny, and if we can make that argument, sure mods as flashlights is not us really standing up for our rights, however its picking our battle and limiting the attacks to rebuildables, clearos, cartos, etc, etc, etc...

I want to win this battle, I want to win the war, but I want to prepare/plan/adjust for how to adapt if the outcome is not what we are looking for... like i said this may not win the battle, but if we prepare what to do if things dont go our way, this will help us win the war... the long term... vaping is out there, we just have to keep the money out of big tobacco and big pharmas hands until they get tired of the lost funds and resources, and either up the quality of their products to be equal to what we have, or they just back out...

also a way to hold out until we can appeal whatever comes from the fda, as i am sure that no matter what it will not go exactly how we will want it to go... however i would not be surprised if we can appeal and have things overturned... so we need to have our back up plan... i hope you are on the same page with me and that i am offering up some good solid ideas... companies like innokin, kanger, etc should be able to stand up to the ban and keep clearos out there, the cartos should survive...

ok i am done spitballing for now... let me know what you think...

my wife has encouraged me to expand on my conglomerate, that all the various businesses unite under one company not associated to namber juice, adirondack, zulu vape, but form a vapers union, one company and sell unflavored nic base, and my wife had the idea of forming a union of all the various companies to get non profit assistance for our cause, a vapers union, that will get union support from outside of our community, and i dont know, again spitballing, these are ideas that my wife is shotgunning at me while im working on what i was saying above, so im tossing em in here, because im on one track and shes on another but dammit everything that can possibly help needs to be approached and attempted...