FDA New CDC survey confirms that e-cig use by nonsmokers has been virtually nonexistant, but misrepresents survey findings to news media

[Bill Godshall]

Kent wrote

It was the Cato Institute that pointed out the EPA junk science on second-hand smoke. And Reason mag reported on it.

But Cato's William Niskanon and Reason's Jacob Sullum (who I know well) highlighted the lung cancer research (while ignoring the secondhand smoke studies on many other diseases and ignoring the truly hazardous levels of particulates in secondhand smoke that exponentially exceeded outdoor air pollution limits) to misrepresent the overall body of scientific evidence on secondhand smoke, to falsely insinuate that secondhand smoke isn't harmful to nonsmokers, and primarily to oppose smokefree workplace laws.

Kent wrote

As to the 'workplace ban' I prefer principled libertarian approach, to let the owner of the business decide, and then let the workers and customers (pragmatically, for their own concerns) to decide whether or not they think working or shopping there is of value to them.

I stated that I'm a "pragmatic" libertarian (as I support reasonable regulations), which is distinctly different than the "anarchist" or "eliminate government" libertarians who run/control many libertarian organizations.

As a public health activist, I support reasonable regulations that ensure restaurants serve safe drinking water, provide toilets and wash rooms for customers and employees, store and cook food at safe temperatures, etc. Before those laws and regulations were implemented, food, water and sewage borne diseases (and deaths) were rampant.

The claim that government shouldn't regulate public places also sounds like the claim made several years ago by Rand Paul (who I really like and agree with on many issues) when he said the federal civil rights laws violated the US Constitution (when he argued that white employers and public place managers have a Constitutional right to not hire or serve blacks).

 

[Kent C]

Bill wrote:

But Cato's William Niskanon and Reason's Jacob Sullum (who I know well) highlighted the lung cancer research (while ignoring the secondhand smoke studies on many other diseases and ignoring the truly hazardous levels of particulates in secondhand smoke that exponentially exceeded outdoor air pollution limits) to misrepresent the overall body of scientific evidence on secondhand smoke, to falsely insinuate that secondhand smoke isn't harmful to nonsmokers, and primarily to oppose smokefree workplace laws.

Probably not the place to discuss this but I'll just say that the criticism of the metastudy done by Carol Browner's EPA was that it was flawed and so stated in court - that they cherry-picked the data and used non-standard statistical constants to come to their 1.07 result - just barely above no harm at all and the studies used were not just about lung cancer. And I've read the ASHC response and the Levy response to them, etc. etc. While at one point in time I'd be up for such a discussion, that is no longer the case. And will reiterate the "You and I will never agree" on some issues, mainly because of:

I stated that I'm a "pragmatic" libertarian (as I support reasonable regulations), which is distinctly different than the "anarchist" or "eliminate government" libertarians who run/control many libertarian organizations.

...since pragmatism is a flawed politic (and devolves into utilitarianism - good? by what standard? 'it works' according to what standard?) and the fact that I'm neither of the types you mention. One doesn't have to be an anarchist to limit government to the Constitution. However, one does have to alter the Constitution (or as is being done, simply ignore it) in order to be a 'regulator' on these issues.

If you can't give private enterprise solutions to your added comments or understand from where Rand Paul and other libertarians make such statements, you're not much of a libertarian. You might ask Jacob about that. There are good answers, but this isn't the place.

 

[Jman8]

you're not much of a libertarian.

This incessant attack on our de facto leader has got to stop.

Won't anyone think of the pragmatic libertarians? Shame!

 

[Kent C]

 

[Rlrick]

Ok guys and gals enough is enough quit attacking each other and put your differences to the side please. I most likely shouldn’t even be commenting on this thread for you all are way above my head about what each of you are doing. I know that each of you are sincere about stopping people from harming themselves by smoking and moving them on to vaping. The only thing I am going to say on this matter is UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. When I go to a section whether it is FDA or legislative or media and general discussion. I always look for your names first to read then I move on to other subjects. You all are good people so stand United.