Misinformation and proposed FDA ban

[Penn]

I gotta defend CASAA (you seemed to imply that it was easy/cheap; I didn't even describe half of what they actually do, I'm sure)

Does Blu have a superPAC? Are they lobbying? (favorably). I think Kristin described them in more detail.

Yeah the Canton thing was a surprise, but it looks like it all turned out well; pfew!

Where did I imply that? This is circling.

 

[kristin]

Where did I imply that? This is circling.

Honestly, I kind of thought that was what you were saying, too. Must have just misunderstood. I'm still not clear on what you were trying to say. Could be I'm just getting sleepy! lol

 

[stevegmu]

Greg has already been in touch with the AG's office, which is why we know about the possible 3rd party verification requirement. Anything you can do to help would be appreciated!

As far as 3rd party verification hurting business, CASAA has not supported that requirement to date. Not every vaper has the same ambivalent feelings about it as you do and some strongly oppose it.

As far as blu being "largely online," that may have been true before being bought by Lorillard, but the tobacco companies are largely focusing on filling shelf space in stores. Killing online sales, where products are much cheaper and have more variety, would benefit Lorillard and other brands that focus on retail space. The market for e-cigarettes has a lot more small companies than online cigarettes do and a much smaller pool of potential customers than there are for tobacco cigarettes (at least right now.) A lot of those smaller companies cannot afford the kind of age verification systems that some officials want in place. It could severely reduce the vendor options for vapers to just bigger companies.

I'll put some thoughts together tonight and send him an e-mail tomorrow. I'm sure he still remembers me, even though I was a low-level intern.

What is the issue with age verification? Cost?

BLU has a name people recognize. I think if someone wanted a cigalike, they would probably Google BLU before they look at fasttech, even though FastTech probably sells cigalikes for far less. I honestly don't think BLU cares what the small, no-name, cheaper companies sell. V2 may be their only online competition- and their site looks cheap and gimmicky. They want to take sales from NJOY and retain market share in cigalikes. No matter how many stores carry their gear, an online presence is required these days.

 

[Penn]

That is why I was asking what you meant. It does cost money to raise awareness and blu doesn't fund CASAA. Most of our members would be horrified if we took money from a company that also sells combustible cigarettes - not to mention that the ANTZ would have a field day accusing us of being paid shills for BT if we did.

Circling.

I said nothing to indicate Blu supporting CASAA. Context. Steve said Blu is supporting legislation in OH that would be a benefit and asked where is the call to action. BigBen said it would cost money. I asked how much to just put out awareness that the legislation exist. Not anything else, just awareness in the form of emails and a posting on the website and let Blu do the actual fight.

ETA - Typed that without seeing the last response. Sorry, shouldn't watch TV while responding.

 

[Rickajho]

BLU certainly isn't. Not only have most of started on BLU, they are actively promoting vaping through media campaigns and by supporting pro-vaping legislation, like in Ohio.



E-cig bill called a


The bill would essentially create a new classification for e-nic, excepting it from tobacco laws and taxes in the state. On a national level, such a bill would be a game-changer.

Oddly, I haven't seen any call-to-action threads calling for support of the bill...

Lorilard is pro Blu product promotion. And so is any other place - like Logic - I have heard doing local spots on radio. They are selling their product, not jumping up and down saying "Vaping is great!" any more than you hear the maker of Tylenol advocating for generic acetaminophen. Need I remind anyone that the owner of Logic would be perfectly happy with only 2 e-cig flavors - "regular" and menthol and that is a position he advocates for. They are interested in market share and your lack of choice would actually be the preferential outcome for these companies. CASAA is pro vaping. There is a huge difference.

Blue wasn't even in existence when I started vaping. So please tone down the general assumption as to how how "most of us" started doing anything.

I can't honestly figure out whose side you are really on. In other threads you insist we are all still tobacco users because we ingest nicotine, seemingly happy to disregard any and all differences between smoking tobacco and inhaling the nicotine extracted from it for the sake of making a moot point. You seem to be pushing a "vaping is the same thing as tobacco" agenda. Why?

Now you say Blu is doing a better job than CASAA at promoting for our rights in this fight.

I honestly cannot tell if you just enjoy being a contrarian or if you have "other" motives for these positions you take.

 

[stevegmu]

Lorilard is pro Blu product promotion. And so is any other place - like Logic - I have heard doing local spots on radio. They are selling their product, not jumping up and down saying "Vaping is great!" any more than you hear the making of Tylenol advocating for generic acetaminophen. Need I remind anyone that the owner of Logic would be perfectly happy with only 2 e-cig flavors - "regular" and menthol and that is a position he advocates for. They are interested in market share and your lack of choice would actually be the preferential outcome for these companies. CASAA is pro vaping. There is a huge difference.

Blue wasn't even in existence when I started vaping. So please tone down the general assumption as how how "most of us" started doing anything.

I can't honestly figure out whose side you are really on. In other threads you insist we are all still tobacco users because we ingest nicotine, seemingly happy to disregard any and all differences between smoking tobacco and inhaling the nicotine extracted from it for the sake of making a moot point. You seem to be pushing a "vaping is the same thing as tobacco" agenda. Why?

Now you say Blu is doing a better job than CASAA at promoting for our rights in this fight.

I honestly cannot tell if you just enjoy being a contrarian or if you have "other" motives for these positions you take.

Go to any BLU thread and you will see the vast majority on here post that they started with BLU.

Odd, BLU has a lot more than 2 flavors...

You clearly have difficulty with comprehension and context , so I won't bother responding.

 

[kristin]

Circling.

I said nothing to indicate Blu supporting CASAA. Context. Steve said Blu is supporting legislation in OH that would be a benefit and asked where is the call to action. BigBen said it would cost money. I asked how much to just put out awareness that the legislation exist. Not anything else, just awareness in the form of emails and a posting on the website and let Blu do the actual fight.

ETA - Typed that without seeing the last response. Sorry, shouldn't watch TV while responding.

Oh, I see how that went. I actually thought BigBen was asking Steve about CASAA paying for big media campaigns like blu does, not responding to the Call to Action post. Hence the confusion!

 

[kristin]

I'll put some thoughts together tonight and send him an e-mail tomorrow. I'm sure he still remembers me, even though I was a low-level intern.

What is the issue with age verification? Cost?

BLU has a name people recognize. I think if someone wanted a cigalike, they would probably Google BLU before they look at FastTech, even though FastTech probably sells cigalikes for far less. I honestly don't think BLU cares what the small, no-name, cheaper companies sell. V2 may be their only online competition- and their site looks cheap and gimmicky. They want to take sales from NJOY and retain market share in cigalikes. No matter how many stores carry their gear, an online presence is required these days.

OK, that sounds good!

Typical tactic to stamp out competition through legislation they can handle but the small guys can't. Why do you think the larger tobacco companies supported the FDA ban on flavored cigarettes? The only companies effected by that were small and foreign companies. They don't care about one or two small, no-name companies, but they'll want to get rid of HUNDREDS of small, no name and even well-known in our circles companies. Cignot, nhaler, nicquid, etc - ECF-type vendors popular with advanced users and largely unknown to blu and Logic users. Get rid of them the "easy" way (make online sales more expensive and even unpleasant for online consumers who don't want to give out that kind of info online for verification and having to sign in person for shipments) and THEN go after taking market share from the other cig-a-like companies selling in stores like Walgreens and gas stations.

I'm not saying they are evil or anything for doing this - it's the same plan some other big cig-a-like companies planned on doing long before tobacco companies entered the market. Every company on the planet wants to own their market, whether it's selling e-cigarettes or peanut butter.

 

[BigBen2k]

I threw in some [EDIT]'s to my posts, just in case anyone tries to read through this thread again. I hope it helps!

My apologies to anyone who was offended. It wasn't intentional.

Always glad to hear from CASAA here; gotta remember BP.

Blu disposables are available in 2 flavors. Blu rechargeables have 7 flavor options.

 

[UntamedRose]

Looks at join date...........IDK about all this other stuff just throwing out there Blu was active and around in 2010, course it was different then but ya. I started with them month or two later I found ECF and asked what was better etc etc etc.

 

[Rickajho]

Looks at join date...........IDK about all this other stuff just throwing out there Blu was active and around in 2010, course it was different then but ya. I started with them month or two later I found ECF and asked what was better etc etc etc.

It must have been been a matter of marketing at the time because it sure wasn't an "in store" option around here. But you could walk into any generic Kwikee Mart and find nJoy everywhere. Regardless I was not a "most of us" anyone who started with either of them. I could see the problem with that product - small batteries - before I even joined ECF. No matter - the point is the sweeping assumption made was false and still is false.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I'm of the opinion that the tobacco companies either in or looking to enter this market are our allies in fighting any proposed ban on online sales. Blu gets all of their flavors from Johnson Creek, who offers their own line of e-cig kits, called the Vea.

Blu has a significant online business of its own and the parent company sees Blu as a potential savior. Why would Lorillard hurt the growth of the one thing that could turn the company back into a profit center? It's not good business for the tobacco companies to oppose online sales.

The enemy of my enemy is my ally. Right now, our enemy is a ban on online sales of the products we use. Kristin has mentioned that both CASAA and the tobacco companies have identified areas of potential common ground, and also areas where perhaps they can be brought around to our reasoning.

I see no reason to bite a hand that could feed so well. At least not for now.

As evil as the Bolsheviks were, the Soviet Union was an important member of the Alliance that defeated the Nazis. Roosevelt and Churchill both knew that putting aside differences with Stalin in the near term was necessary. We can deal with those differences later. Right now, there's a task at hand that serves the interests of both sides.

 

[AttyPops]

Yeah, basically, someone in the room broached the subject. So what? What matters is the deeming language (as you well know) and we haven't seen it yet.

I guess "they" could even have mentioned it because of the ANTZ stance and due to wanting to keep internet sales businesses alive.

It's more or less "hurry up and rumor while we wait". No matter what they come up with, there will be a bunch of "I told you so"'s due to the sheer volume of comments from every angle on the regulation issue in every thread that even hints at the topic. lol.

I'm still stocking up on nic base though.

 

[tA71ana]

Somebody may have leaked info of intentions that were to be swept under the rug or concealed until the last moment.
One of those "crazy like a fox" situations.
These days, who knows, lol
I watch the news and read the paper/news online and get more baffled by the day, lol

 

[dr g]

Yeah, basically, someone in the room broached the subject. So what?

So what is, the idea that this is considered -- by anyone involved in the process -- as a sensible means of regulating ecigs should raise huge red flags for us consumers. It might actually be worse that it came from ecig promoters themselves ... they are looking to give the farm away to protect their income streams.

I don't know about you but an out and out online ban wasn't on my radar at all, it would be disastrous for consumers but apparently the industry doesn't care.

 

[AttyPops]

Yeah, IF it happens. The "So what?" was....rhetorical... in that it doesn't matter what subjects came up, it matters what is proposed.

The internet ban idea is not new.

It's one of the worst-case scenarios though.

 

[dr g]

Yeah, IF it happens. The "So what?" was....rhetorical... in that it doesn't matter what subjects came up, it matters what is proposed.

The internet ban idea is not new.

It's one of the worst-case scenarios though.

The fact that it's coming up in these discussions FROM PROMOTERS as a solution makes it less than a worst-case scenario now, which is really the troublesome thing about this. It should be a non-starter but it's being offered up as a solution.

Sounds like we are being sold down the river.

 

[SissySpike]

The fact that it's coming up in these discussions FROM PROMOTERS as a solution makes it less than a worst-case scenario now, which is really the troublesome thing about this. It should be a non-starter but it's being offered up as a solution.

Sounds like we are being sold down the river.

No way you mean someone might use our government to advance them selves? I just cant see such a thing taking place. There are there for us right? Not the companys to manipulate for their own best end say it ant so!

I just know this My wife and I have a beach house in the PI when I can afford to Im leaving the country I love and the goverment I despise. I will not look back and I will join the rest of the PI vapors blowing clouds with sub ohm attys

 

[Vaptor]

If they ban sales they're likely to ban online purchases as well. This would essentially an e-cig ban any way you look at it.