Latest thoughts on batteries

[Filthy-Beast]

Interesting thanks for posting.

I wonder why they picked 2.8 volts since I think most of us switch at 3.7 to 3.6 resting voltage. I know the AW 1600 holds higher longer than 2000 at voltages above 3.7 would love to see them ad that too. I will have pay closer attention to my own performance, I've got AW 1600, LGs and Sony VTC 4 and 5 in rotation.

Regarding 18650 batteries.
I finally found a test that was conducted by simulating actual vaping conditions that back's up what I've noticed with the Samsung INR18650-25R 2500mAh. It doesn't fully back up my claim but I have noticed in my own real world vaping tests that the VTC5 drops off its peak whereas both the Samsung and the LG keep a harder hit after the peak wears off.

Quote from the test results:
"I.e. If the SINGLE MOST important thing to you is that the battery output the highest possible voltage UNDER LOAD before it drops to 2.8 volts, the VTC4 would be the hands down best choice (see it's chart below, its valley bottoms stay respectively higher than any other battery’s')."

Link to test.

•Vamped 18650 2000 mAh = 74 hits
•AW IMR 18650 2000 mAh = 94 hits
•VTC4 18650 2100 mAh = 97 hits
•LG 18650HE2 2500 mAh = 102 hits
•VTC 5 18650 2600 mAh = 115 hits
•Sony US26650VT (chart not uploaded yet. coming soon) = 120 hits
•Samsung INR18650-25R = 122 hits
•Panasonic 18650 2900 mAh = 124 hits
•MNKE 26650 4000 mAh = 143 hits
•Vappower 26650 4200 mAh = 179 hits
•KP Private Label 26650 4000 mAh = 207 hits

Interesting test

Just my

 

[pnyc]

I personally would stay away from any battery that uses cobalt oxide (including hybrid cells that use them to boost capacity). Cobalt oxide is reactive and have poor thermal stability. Batteries made with cobalt oxide are susceptible to thermal runaway in cases of abuse such as high temperature operation (>130 °C) or overcharging. At elevated temperatures, they decompose and generate oxygen which then reacts with the organic electrolyte of the cell to fuel thermal runaway. I will stay with pure IMR instead even they have a lower power density.

AFAIK they're unprotected (but safe chemistry) ibrid imr, that means they use a cobalt cathode. This lead to a major capacity, and a lower discharge limit (2,5V). I've seen on the Internet their discharge graphic, and they stand above both the aw 18650 (2000mah and 1600mah) and the efest purple 35A, at any discharge level.

 

[Gotahorse]

Loving the new light blue Samsung batteries!

 

[sbmqcy]

I personally would stay away from any battery that uses cobalt oxide (including hybrid cells that use them to boost capacity). Cobalt oxide is reactive and have poor thermal stability. Batteries made with cobalt oxide are susceptible to thermal runaway in cases of abuse such as high temperature operation (>130 °C) or overcharging. At elevated temperatures, they decompose and generate oxygen which then reacts with the organic electrolyte of the cell to fuel thermal runaway. I will stay with pure IMR instead even they have a lower power density.

So is the aw imr 1600 the only choice in high drain imr batteries? Or are any of the others pure imr?


Sent from my mobile

 

[pnyc]

Besides AW, there are MNKE and some models of Efest using pure IMR chemistry.

 

[Quigsworth]

I personally would stay away from any battery that uses cobalt oxide (including hybrid cells that use them to boost capacity). Cobalt oxide is reactive and have poor thermal stability. Batteries made with cobalt oxide are susceptible to thermal runaway in cases of abuse such as high temperature operation (>130 °C) or overcharging. At elevated temperatures, they decompose and generate oxygen which then reacts with the organic electrolyte of the cell to fuel thermal runaway. I will stay with pure IMR instead even they have a lower power density.

Seems that's not entirely true, Cobalt Oxide is only one variable in L-ion chem. and can be found in batts of both moderately safe to very safe values in both discharge and charge currents. In the case of VTC's with a rated discharge of 30A the vast majority (and I mean vast) will be well under that and not stress the batt and any charger that anyone should really be using would also not cause them any undue stress.

I run VTC4-5's, LG HE2's and Samsung INR's exclusively at .5 ohm and lower and at about 3.7v charge on an XTAR VP2 with no issues at all. I tend to agree with X-Puppy on the VTC's dropping off a little fast but until they do, great batt...overall I like the HE2's as the best broad range batt but maybe it's also cause they're red

This is not to say AW's aren't a good batt, they just aren't a practical solution for sub ohm vaping

 

[pnyc]

How about an accidental 'short' most commonly associated with a bad atomizer or adapters we see all the time? Even with all the safety redundancy + regulations with the 787, the lithium ion batteries on board did act up - not once. They are lithium cobalt cells made by Yusa. I value my safety more than the convenience of swapping out the battery less frequently.

 

[Quigsworth]

...batteries made by Yusa in a 787?

Sorry but I really have no meaningful response to that parallel.

 

[pnyc]

Sorry for the misspelling. Should be Yuasa. Well known Japanese battery maker.

Products | GS Yuasa Corporation

 

[Ian444]

I found a little gadget that could be used to do capacity tests on batteries, its a USB power monitor that also keeps track of mAh going through it, nice feature. It would be ideal as the main component of a capacity tester, testing the mAh capacity of a battery is the best way to know the health of your batteries. You know, the one you discharged a bit too far, or one that the atty shorted on it, and you want to know if its still OK. Or, are my old batteries still performing OK? Probably needs a seperate thread, I posted in the modding forum but no interest, thought I'd mention it here. Here's the modding forum post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...8-possible-cheap-battery-capacity-tester.html

 

[Quigsworth]

That's pretty cool Ian but it's current max. of 3.3A would have you run a shunt/resistor so you'd be adding a small vdrop and make you do the math on the fly...but do-able...

As much as I'm mostly a direct drive kinda guy I do like my DNA30's, great piece of gear but for the best of me I can't understand why they didn't build in an option to display current instead of voltage?...sure, the industry has acclimated peeps to "voltage" as a measure of heat to their coil(s) and it just stuck but lets face it, this whole vaping thing stresses batteries as a matter of course...I could care less what the voltage is at my coil, I can "feel" what I like...I want to know how much I'm stressing my gear to achieve it without having to constantly do long-division in my head

 

[Raynman]

I just slap in a purple Efest and vape it like I stole it. I just haven't got any LGs yet. I haven't gone super low sub yet (usually .6 to .9) But I use ReadyxWick so I don't recoil of wick very often. I might have to set up a Reo for .2 or .3 just for gets and shiggles maybe one of my not being used Attys.

 

[Ian444]

That's pretty cool Ian but it's current max. of 3.3A would have you run a shunt/resistor so you'd be adding a small vdrop and make you do the math on the fly...but do-able...

Ahhh, it looks like I haven't explained my idea very well. My thoughts are not to have the device inside the mod. My idea is to connect a fully charged battery to the input of the meter, and put a constant current load on the output, preferably a load that turns off at say 3.5V or 3.7V. Even a plain old high wattage resistor would do if you were going to sit there and watch it. So you drain the battery down to say 3.7V and get a mAh figure for that discharge. Then you run all your other fully charged batteries through this and compare the results of each battery. This will allow you to identify any weaker batteries. One of these meters arrived the other day, I might get around to trying this today.

 

[Quigsworth]

Ahhh...now I get it...maybe just wrap a 3 ohm coil out of 24 or something as a load, it'll run at about 1.5 amps and will act as a almost "real world" test, (I'd think you'd want to stress the batts a bit?).

That's a good idea...

 

[vengaman]

I cannot explain why (the chemistry isn't my thing) but I prefer the vape of my iw imr 18650 in my reo.

daily I pretty much stick to vtc5s now. they are a little more snug than the vtc4 and aw imr and prevent rattle / movement when out and about.

 

[X-Puppy]

The AW IMR 18650 1600mah do actually pack a good midrange punch and they keep their voltage high in the curve before dropping off. Very good battery, they just don't last as long as the others. (Samsung, LG, VTC's and such).

 

[chohan]

The AW IMR 18650 1600mah do actually pack a good midrange punch and they keep their voltage high in the curve before dropping off. Very good battery, they just don't last as long as the others. (Samsung, LG, VTC's and such).

Between the aw imr 1600 vs the samsung 25r, I get identical v-drop and vape quality when they are both at the same voltage levels.

The difference, after working all night with occasional vaping (not chain vaping) on a 1 ohm coil, the aw are usually around 3.8-3.85v... the samsung has barely hit 4v. I was impressed enough to order another two.

Edit: I should add for anyone tempted to run the samsung 25r, I advise the flat top. The button top is about 1.5mm longer than the aw imr and I think they compress the spring too much for peace of mind. I ordered one of each as a test and the flat top is perfect.

Cheers

 

[Ian444]

Ahhh...now I get it...maybe just wrap a 3 ohm coil out of 24 or something as a load, it'll run at about 1.5 amps and will act as a almost "real world" test, (I'd think you'd want to stress the batts a bit?).

Its working like a champ. Just what I wanted. All batteries tested so far in good health, including a couple that had suffered minor "incidents," the main reason for doing this. I have a 0.25V drop between the battery terminals and the input of the module, that's the only minor issue, but it doesn't effect the mAh capacity as that's calculated as current x time. I used a dmm to stop the test at 3.680V at the battery terminals, and a timer to remind me when the time was near.

 

[Torrentula81]

I'm giving the Samsung INR18650-25R a try. Here is a data sheet I found on them. Not sure if it's accurate given the early date of it but seems like it would be none the less.

 

[danaway]

Sorry if I missed anyone's comment, but are there any thoughts on 18500 batteries? Only AWs? Since REO 2.1s come with the same sub-ohm guts as a grand, they will take more than the batteries can deliver..?