How much nicotine is delivered??

[Vapture]

Curious on others views ....

Been reading on the vaping thing a bit. The general theme seems to be that vaping, in it's current form, doesn't actually deliver that much nicotine. Enjoy to satisfy cravings/desires for while, for most people, but certainly a significant amount less than normal smoking does. I seen that cited in several places around the net from different sources. I know that tobacco companies have experimented with nicotine levels being delivered thru smoking to maximize the amount while not turning people off it.

I'm just curious how others view it.

For me, I know the nicotine levels delivered via ecigs are lower from personal observations, could just be the one I'm using of course. Unless i vape much more often.

Not saying anything bad about e cigs. I think it's quite an advantage to be able to lower the nicotine dose to just the amount required for "satisfaction", rather than being forced to take what's offered in a cigarette. Reason for the advantage is simply ... less intake required to satisfy, less potential for higher levels of addiction. Kinda the same principle as some coffee places use .. by having significantly higher levels of caffeine the "need" or desire for the next coffee is much higher.

What I was thinking ... is with ecigs ... it's likely much more possible to use nicotine at levels low enough to satisfy or have an effect BUT be below the threshold for more severe addiction to occur.

Kinda like switching to green tea to get of coffee .. type thing.

 

[Ellen81]

Hi,
I'm not sure what the statistics are, I'm a noob, but the experienced members I'm sure will know. All I can say is that I've been vaping for a few days and have definitely been showing signs of nicotine overdose (hiccups, dizziness etc) I smoked about 20-30 analog cigarettes a day, so I must be going through more nicotine when vaping than I was when smoking. At the same time, I didn't chain smoke all day, but I am chain vaping, so perhaps it takes longer with vaping to get the same effect. I would also imagine that a lot depends on nicotine strength of e-juice and quantity of juice, as well as the device used, that varies a lot.

 

[magentaman]

I know for me, even on 24mg juice, I never get that "first smoke of the day buz".. That said, today marks 9 weeks that I put down the analogs and pickup the battery.

 

[theragingllama]

I've been vaping now for like almost a month with at least 36mg or 30 nic and I have not noticed any signs of od so not really sure I vap all day long more than I use to smoke 1 pack a day marb reds

 

[Jaymzifer]

It's a we'll known fact that we all accept; it just isn't going to hit you like an analog would. The particulates in smoke are much smaller; the smoke travels much deeper into your lungs, vapor will never get that deep into your lungs. Tobacco companies have refined their craft over many years and basically deliver freebase nicotine in their smoke. I myself use 24ml juice and find myself close to chain vaping. I am feeling much, much better off the analogs though, plenty of productive coughing going on.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

The nature of addiction is to need more and more. The ability to wean off of nicotine with e-cigs is a combination of being able to closely control the amount of nicotine AND applying conscious effort towards that goal.

The nicotine in 4 cigarettes is sufficient to supply anyone's daily nicotine addiction. Obviously we were not just addicted to nicotine. Addictions are very complex. Luckily for us we do not need to dissect everything to understand that it works.

Yes, e-cigs provide more of a flat line dosage of nicotine, without the large spikes that cigarettes provide. That, coupled with the fact that with e-cigs we are able to provide ourselves with 1 or 2 puffs as required, allows us to have the nicotine required to satisfy our addiction (and perhaps save the necks (literally) of those around us) without the dangerous substances that used to come with it. (Although, at times we may sit and vape just to watch the clouds of vapor! Lol We can adjust our nicotine intake (and flavor) to compensate for these times.)

I am Relaxing and Enjoying!

 

[DC2]

As far as nicotine delivery, here is some information that might interest you...

If you look at studies like the one Dr. Eissenberg did awhile back, yeah, some people are getting little or no nicotine.
And those people would be first time users who have underpowered devices that they are using incorrectly.

If you look at the current studies Dr. Eissenberg is doing, the conclusions are very different.
People with quality devices that know how to vape are getting plenty of nicotine.

This is some information from his current study...
"Electronic cigarettes CAN deliver nicotine": Smoking Cessation Community - Support Group

One of the most interesting studies was presented in a poster by Dr Andrea Vansickel and colleagues at Professor Tom Eissenberg's laboratory at Virginia Commonwealth University. This group had previously published a study of e-cigarette use in cigarette smokers which found that they obtained only negligible levels of blood nicotine from the e-cigarettes. In the poster last week they reported preliminary results from the first 3 subjects in a new study of regular e-cigarette users. Each of these e-cigarette users used their own modified e-cigarettes and at least two of them obtained significant increases in blood nicotine concentrations, reaching more than 10 ng/ml from 10 puffs over 5-minutes, and one reached over 30 ng/ml with continued use. These levels are comparable to the venous blood nicotine levels that can be absorbed by a cigarette, and I believe this is the first time this has ever been reported. I am looking forward to reading the full results when the study is completed and published in a peer-reviewed journal.

Having said that, it seems clear the absorption rate is much lower for electronic cigarettes, and you have to work to get the same amount as smoking.


As for the addiction potential, nicotine by it self very well may not be nearly as addictive as people think...

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential.

Tobacco smoke contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitors harman, norharman, anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine. These compounds significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers. MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. It is thought that the powerful interaction between the MAOI's and the nicotine is responsible for most of the addictive properties of tobacco smoking.

The talk about how addictive nicotine is comes from looking at smoking behavior, not vaping behavior.

Electronic cigarettes are the first product that allows you to look at nicotine addiction...
--Without needing to factor in the behavioral components of the act of smoking
--Without the smoke, and all the additives they put in to make it more addictive

There is tons of anecdotal evidence right here on these forums that many people are finding it easy to reduce or eliminate nicotine intake.

SMOKING = Highly addictive
NICOTINE = Maybe not so much

 

[sailorman]

....

The nicotine in 4 cigarettes is sufficient to supply anyone's daily nicotine addiction. Obviously we were not just addicted to nicotine. Addictions are very complex. Luckily for us we do not need to dissect everything to understand that it works......

While I agree that there are likely other components to cigarette addiction, I still believe nicotine is the main chemical component and I strongly question the notion that the nicotine in 4 cigarettes is sufficient to supply anyone's daily nicotine addiction.

If nicotine itself played such a relatively small role in cigarette addiction, how could I have instantly quit a 3 pack, 40 year habit with nicotine alone? Why didn't I crave any of those other chemicals, if they played such an important part?

I don't know what your level of smoking was, but I can assure you that "1 or 2 puffs as required" is not remotely sufficient to satisfy my addiction, unless they are repeated more or less continuously.

As to the the OP's original question, Health NZ estimated the nicotine content in one puff of a regular cigarette as 0.1mg, about 95+% of which is absorbed. The amount of nicotine in their 16mg Ruyan test cartridge was 0.01mg/puff. Depending on the vaper's technique, the absorption rate is estimated to be something on the order of 30-50%.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

While I agree that there are likely other components to cigarette addiction, I still believe nicotine is the main chemical component and I strongly question the notion that the nicotine in 4 cigarettes is sufficient to supply anyone's daily nicotine addiction.

If nicotine itself played such a relatively small role in cigarette addiction, how could I have instantly quit a 3 pack, 40 year habit with nicotine alone? Why didn't I crave any of those other chemicals, if they played such an important part?

I didn't say that any other chemicals were involved. I was referring to the physical and physiological aspects of addiction.

I don't know what your level of smoking was, but I can assure you that "1 or 2 puffs as required" is not remotely sufficient to satisfy my addiction, unless they are repeated more or less continuously.

You are fixating on the "1 or 2 puffs", I am fixating on the "as required". Obviously, different people need different amounts of vaping and the same person can need different amounts at different times. I find being able to "self dose" vaping makes it more effective than NRT like the patch that supply a fixed dosage to everyone at all times. They don't take into account that people have differing needs at certain times. It is not a straight line down to zero-nic. We may need to work backwards for a time. Vaping lets me decide how much I need or want. I like that!

As to the the OP's original question, Health NZ estimated the nicotine content in one puff of a regular cigarette as 0.1mg, about 95+% of which is absorbed. The amount of nicotine in their 16mg Ruyan test cartridge was 0.01mg/puff. Depending on the vaper's technique, the absorption rate is estimated to be something on the order of 30-50%.

Using your figures (assuming they are as correct as research can provide, at this time) I still believe that a nicotine addiction can be satisfied with 4 smokes a day or 133 draws of an e-cig (as per the math using the above numbers). The fact that we smoked more than that or vape more than that simply means that we do it for many more reasons than nicotine addiction, to me.

I may be wrong. I have the right to be wrong. I'm not particularly concerned about it. I vape! I don't smoke! That's all that matters to me.

The great minds of our time cannot agree on these things (nor can they accurately measure them) so I don't find it surprising that there are differing opinions here. That's a service ECF provides. People can hear different opinions and make their own decisions.

 

[sailorman]

....

The great minds of our time cannot agree on these things (nor can they accurately measure them) so I don't find it surprising that there are differing opinions here. That's a service ECF provides. People can hear different opinions and make their own decisions.

I'm just wondering, given the state of the research, how anyone could come to the quite arbitrary sounding figure of 4 cigarettes. I may have smoked more than I needed, for whatever reason, but there's no way in the world that 4 cigs were sufficient. Why not 3, or 1 or 12? How can such a blanket statement even be made when some people smoke 4 cigs a day and some smoke 60 or more? I don't believe there's even any such concept as "anyone's" when it comes to addiction. It's not the same from individual to individual. No other addiction or dependency is. You'd never say "X number of ounces of alcohol is sufficient..." or "X number of milligrams of X is sufficient...". No statement like that would ever be made about alcohol or any other drug and there's no reason to believe nicotine that much different. It's not a nutrient.

 

[Vapture]

Now that I've become a little more used to vaping and have learned how to get varied doses based on how I use it, same as I learned with smoking .... I can certainly tell when and how much nicotine (relative) I'm vaping and absorbing. No doubt I am absorbing some nicotine ... I can also feel differences of when I'm using too much etc. I think it's important to keep in mind that without the other effects of smoking, it would be quite easy overuse the vaper (ecig) ... though I doubt many people do ... except for using higher nicotine content.

I don't get the morning buzz from the first vaping as I do with smoking either. Of course cigarettes have free based nicotine in the mix as well ... as well as a higher potential to increase circulating blood fats/sugars ... not too mention the early morning carbon monoxide BUZZ

As a side note, if I remember correctly it was the introduction of free based nicotine ... in partial quantities that increased smoking demands ... way back when. One brand introduced it, got significantly higher than normal market share and the other brands quickly discovered it and did the same. NOTE: it is the free based nicotine that is harder to quit, than regular nicotine. When NRT vendors state that nicotine is easier to quit .. this is what they mean.

some other "opinions" offered

"THEY" say, given the profile of most cigarettes as little as 10-12 cigarettes a day is enough to keep any smoker out of withdrawal and fully supplied, when spaced appropriately. That's intentional from the cigarettes makers ... it's their intentional dosing. Drug profiles are usually specified in half lives when mean non linear of course. So there is indeed a point at which the drug level is so low that addiction can no longer be maintained, which means recovery starts. For smoking, the minimum level is quite low, which is major part of why it is so addictive. As little as 3-5 cigarettes a day is enough to maintain the addiction, or stated differently, enough to prevent recovery from occurring. VAPING, having the "more" natural unaltered nicotine, much like NRTs, would likely have a higher level of dose required to maintain true addiction. Of course, for nicotine it isn't just a question of half life, which is usually around 2 hours, that's the only factor in addiction .. it is also how long it takes for your body/brain adaptation to nicotine to reverse. This "they" say, takes about there days before that process starts and can take 2-6 weeks to complete. SO, it is the small amount of 3-5 smokes per day that can prevent the re-adaptation process, hence maintain addiction.

I did see the articles by Dr. Eissenberg .. which made me question the amount of nicotine delivered. NO, I didn't believe that there was VERY little delivered, but I did wonder about how much. I seen the recanting article from Dr. Eissenberg as well. Someone about mentioned and absorption rate of 30-50%, and I seen mentions of a 50-60% absorption rate. As stated above the absorption rate for cigarettes is quite high, 95%, primarily due to chemical addictive that increase the rate. Another factor making smoking more addictive than vaping ... especially for occasional users. My initial concern in this regard was to somehow be able to metric/measure my nicotine intake ... not that I ever did it with smoking. However, it's clear smoking delivers rate more nicotine than required to get the "desired benefit" and you can always vape a little more to make up the difference it necessary ... so it's that big a factor for vapers. If anything, the lower absorption rate, would likely mean that for most vapers, they are likely putting less nicotine in their systems ... once they get used to vaping. OR at least have a little more control on how much nicotine they use, given it's delivered in smaller doses.

In other news :

I really like vaping, as it gives quick immediate relief of cravings or other benefits of use, without smoking. I don't have to deal with cravings if I choose not to, and can get on with whatever else I'm doing. The absence of carbon monoxide is a real benefit for sure. I wouldn't say I'm overly interested in nicotine or want to be using it ... but until I decide to put in the effort to break from it, vaping has to be the least risky way of using nicotine for sure. AND from my own experience so far, I fully expect that once I switch to vaping completely, it wouldn't take very long before vaping itself becomes a less frequent behavior and likely will extinguish itself without much effort. Currently I'm only having a few smokes per day (5 or so) ... and mostly because I'm still trying to compare the two methods of nicotine use. Though each time, I have a normal cigarette the other negatives are more and more noticeable .. since the nicotine benefit alone isn't driving the use.

What really irritates me though ... is ... vaping is not a NEW idea, NOR some ground breaking technology. if the monetary / political / big business / etc. were not so invested in use of smoking ... a vaping device would have been available along time ago ... and a lot of people hooked on smoking would have been a lot better of in many ways. So the next time, you hear FDA or similar organizations down playing / blocking vaping .. for health concerns ... ... keep in mind this "vaping technology" could have been available MORE than 50 yrs ago. That's a lot of people, with a lot of health concerns from smoking over those years.

 

[Mroutlaw]

I look at it this way. They say that the average analog delivers 1-2mg of absorbed nicotine. So a PAD smoker is absorbing between 20-40mg of nic a day (we'll use 30).

Personally, I vape 6mg because I like the action and flavor so much, my pv is permanently attached to my face at home. I use about 4-6ml a day depending on how much I'm home.

Most people are using 12-18mg nic from what I see. So if you vape 3ml a day of 18mg juice, that's only 54mg of nic. Even is you absorb 75% of that you are still only absorbing the high end of a pack of analogs.

A big part of people's addiction to analogs is the action of holding the analog, puffing and the hand to mouth action. And for all of you who are going to say "that's not true", if it wasn't true, more people would be able to quit with the gum or patch. So, with that being said, the PV allows you to satisfy that part of the addiction and control the nicotine. For me, I like the hand to mouth action, it gives me something to do, that's why I vape so much. So to compensate for vaping so much, I use a lower nic level. When I smoked analogs, I could have easily chain smoked. The only thing that kept me from it was the cost and the fact that I would start to have a hard time breathing. But if I was laying in bed on a weekend with no children and a drink next to me, I could easily go through 2-3packs in a day. On average, I smoked 1 - 1 1/2 packs. I hid my smoking from my kids and family so I didn't have as many opportunities to smoke. With the PV, I can go in my room, puff away and the kids have no clue.

In conclusion, vape away. If your body says your getting too much nic, lower the dosage and keep vaping the same amount of time. That's the beauty of PV.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ricklynchcore]

I am no scientist but I have lived with this body for 59 long years. It lets me know, in no uncertain terms, when I am doing something wrong. Be it a 1/2 pound cheeseburger before bed, or 1 to many drinks, or that fat cigar I smoked for two hours the night before and still taste the next day, regardless of the amount of teeth brushing's, or mouth washes I use. It has told me I did a VERY GOOD THING by dropping tobacco while substituting vaping. I feel better, breath better, smell better, taste better, talk better (no rasp), bi annual, several weeks long, head colds have all but disappeared. No more mints for the bad breath, no falling asleep with lit cigar or cigarette burning the chair, and I could go on and on....I call it down right remarkable. Again I am no scientist, or doctor, but I don't need a weather vane to tell which way the wind blows! So I will leave the stat's for others and just thank my lucky stars I decided to try 1 more time, to put down the demon tobacco, and can say with confidence I have beaten it!!! I hope all find the same success I have. Jeeps, I sound preachy, but it has meant a lot to me.

 

[Mroutlaw]

I am no scientist but I have lived with this body for 59 long years. It lets me know, in no uncertain terms, when I am doing something wrong. Be it a 1/2 pound cheeseburger before bed, or 1 to many drinks, or that fat cigar I smoked for two hours the night before and still taste the next day, regardless of the amount of teeth brushing's, or mouth washes I use. It has told me I did a VERY GOOD THING by dropping tobacco while substituting vaping. I feel better, breath better, smell better, taste better, talk better (no rasp), bi annual, several weeks long, head colds have all but disappeared. No more mints for the bad breath, no falling asleep with lit cigar or cigarette burning the chair, and I could go on and on....I call it down right remarkable. Again I am no scientist, or doctor, but I don't need a weather vane to tell which way the wind blows! So I will leave the stat's for others and just thank my lucky stars I decided to try 1 more time, to put down the demon tobacco, and can say with confidence I have beaten it!!! I hope all find the same success I have. Jeeps, I sound preachy, but it has meant a lot to me.

All I can say is Amen

 

[Vapture]

I am no scientist but I have lived with this body for 59 long years. It lets me know, in no uncertain terms, when I am doing something wrong. ....

Amen indeed ... I'm getting a little older now as well .... and my body is becoming more vocal as well For a while I thought they were all new problems .... turns out to be the same problems .. just louder

I think reality speaks for itself on vaping ... the benefits for people switching over seem quite clear.

A lot of people switched over to NRTs as well ... but I found the nicotine load and other problems from using them were another issue. Vaping clearly enables people to better control the dose level and use a lot lower, and targeted dose, to satisfy or curb cravings.

Seems to me a lot of people trying vaping over smoking, switch to vaping with very little effort and then prefer it.

As you said, can't really argue with positive results.


Congrats on being free from tobacco.

 

[2oldnot2]

Amen indeed ... I'm getting a little older now as well .... and my body is becoming more vocal as well For a while I thought they were all new problems .... turns out to be the same problems .. just louder

One of the best I've seen on here, thanks Vapture