Higher power married battery cycling has started

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Mooch

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    Thanks to the incredible generosity of our community I have started higher power cycling of the 8 sets of 25R's and HG2's I have been using in my married battery testing. Eventually, this iCharger 4010 Duo charger will be cycling two sets of batteries.



    This cycling, 100W discharge and 2A charge, will better simulate how we use these batteries and lead to a better understanding of whether we need to marry batteries or not.

    Each set has already been lightly used for vaping and then cycled gently for 50 cycles to set a baseline for capacity loss and what the voltages drift to when not balanced.

    After these 100 high power cycles are done I will be mixing these batteries in with sets of new batteries and cycling them some more to see if it causes any safety issues or not.

    Just a FYI...I have my own thoughts regarding what the conclusions of all these tests will be. :)
     
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    sonicbomb

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    DaveP

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    I think that this will reveal aspects of quality control in manufacturing and testing as well as usage and marrying of used batteries that have been used in vaping. Great idea, Mooch!

    I bet on the superiority of batteries carried forward from purchase into a married set and not used singly for high power applications as being the winners. Since the weak link in a chain is always the first to break, I'll stretch and say that older batteries that have been used extensively will be the weak link in parallel or series chains when coupled with new cells.

    This should be interesting to watch. I have one married set that has a cell with slightly different charge rate. It's always the last to turn green in my Efest LUC 4 charger and it starts off coming out of the RX200S mod for charging with a couple of tenths less voltage than the other two.

    The telltale should be in how non married batteries perform when paired up in duets and triplets.
     

    BobC

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    My assumption, it's not going to make much difference in Mooches controlled testing,but in real world usage, where folks use both mechs and regulated mods, and tend to over-drain mech batteries, swapping those abused batteries into mixed, married pairs can lead to failure
     

    Mooch

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    My assumption, it's not going to make much difference in Mooches controlled testing,but in real world usage, where folks use both mechs and regulated mods, and tend to over-drain mech batteries, swapping those abused batteries into mixed, married pairs can lead to failure

    That is part of my testing though. :)

    Controlled testing just means tight control of the variables so that the results are consistent and can be trusted. It can replicate any "real world" use. Including severe abuse. :)

    The testing will include...
    - Randomly picked cells for each set of the same model, at least 150 unbalanced cycles.
    - Mixing of new and old (150 cycles or more) same-model cells for each set, 50 cycles, unbalanced.
    - Mixing of lightly used different model cells for each set, 50 cycles, unbalanced.
    - Mixing in of severely damaged same model cells for each set, 50 cycles, unbalanced.
    - Mixing in of severely damaged different model cells for each set, 50 cycles, unbalanced.

    Each of the above test sets will be done for four different sets of three 25R's and four different sets of three HG2's, each set in series. The severely damaged cells are 30Q's. The different model cells to be mixed in are NCR18650GA, NSX, HB6 and three others I don't remember.
     

    sawlight

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    Humor a "dyed in the wool battery Nazi", what are your pretest thoughts? No harm, no foul for speculation, I certainly can't prove I'm right, I've just seen what can happen with a mismatch on a stacked CR123 (3 "new" Surfire batteries in a Surfire 9P per a thread on CPF) flashlight.
     

    Mooch

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    Humor a "dyed in the wool battery Nazi", what are your pretest thoughts? No harm, no foul for speculation, I certainly can't prove I'm right, I've just seen what can happen with a mismatch on a stacked CR123 (3 "new" Surfire batteries in a Surfire 9P per a thread on CPF) flashlight.

    Never meant to even remotely imply anyone was wrong. i was only trying to say that my testing isn't some kind of gentle academic exercise but will actuallly be testing all sorts of possible abusive real world scenarios. :)

    I do have to ask though....you're right about what? This is your first post in this thread so I'm confused a bit.
     
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    sawlight

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    Never meant to even remotely imply anyone was wrong. i was only trying to say that my testing isn't some kind of gentle academic exercise but will actuallly be testing all sorts of possible abusive real world scenarios. :)

    I do have to ask though....you're right about what? This is your first post in this thread so I'm confused a bit.
    Sorry, I'm a firm believer, and preacher, of marrying up batteries, old school flashaholic.
    Certainly didn't mean to pin you in a corner either! I preach marrying up batteries to a fault because it was ingrained into me, from a lot of aspects! I'm pretty sure this user name was on CPF quite a while before I came here? Both are me.
    I was just curious what your predetermination was to see how it matched with the final results is all. I highly respect you and all you've done for battery safety, so it wasn't a slight on you by any means!
     

    DaveP

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    Sorry, I'm a firm believer, and preacher, of marrying up batteries, old school flashaholic.
    Certainly didn't mean to pin you in a corner either! I preach marrying up batteries to a fault because it was ingrained into me, from a lot of aspects! I'm pretty sure this user name was on CPF quite a while before I came here? Both are me.
    I was just curious what your predetermination was to see how it matched with the final results is all. I highly respect you and all you've done for battery safety, so it wasn't a slight on you by any means!

    My understanding of what Mooch is proposing is real world testing of the things that we tell other people not to do, just to see what actually happens and maybe discover why it happens. Torture testing in a controlled environment is how I would refer to what he's proposing.

    U.S. Army is one of Mooch's past clients. I can only imagine what combinations of lithium batteries end up in a flashlight or other piece of equipment when it's night and time for patrol duty.
     
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    sawlight

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    My understanding of what Mooch is proposing is real world testing of the things that we tell other people not to do, just to see what actually happens and maybe discover why it happens. Torture testing in a controlled environment is how I would refer to what he's proposing.

    U.S. Army is one of Mooch's past clients. I can only imagine what combinations of lithium batteries end up in a flashlight or other piece of equipment when it's night and time for patrol duty.
    I'm aware of who he is and I understand what he's doing.
    I was just curious what his preconceived notion was, that's all!
     
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    Mooch

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    Sorry, I'm a firm believer, and preacher, of marrying up batteries, old school flashaholic.
    Certainly didn't mean to pin you in a corner either! I preach marrying up batteries to a fault because it was ingrained into me, from a lot of aspects! I'm pretty sure this user name was on CPF quite a while before I came here? Both are me.
    I was just curious what your predetermination was to see how it matched with the final results is all. I highly respect you and all you've done for battery safety, so it wasn't a slight on you by any means!

    No real firm predetermination other than that battery marriage shouldn't be considered something to be followed religiously for every circumstance. I have my own experiences, and some science, that say marriage isn't really required at all. But unless I can quantify that there will be a lot of people who will reject that.
     

    sawlight

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    No real firm predetermination other than that battery marriage shouldn't be considered something to be followed religiously for every circumstance. I have my own experiences, and some science, that say marriage isn't really required at all. But unless I can quantify that there will be a lot of people who will reject that.
    That's fair, thank you for the honest reply.
     

    DaveP

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    I'm aware of who he is and I understand what he's doing.
    I was just curious what his preconceived notion was, that's all!

    I understand. I just used your post as a conversation starter.

    In series circuits reverse biasing wouldn't normally occur, so matched pairs would be more of an efficiency boost with all having equal voltage.

    In parallel circuits matching might be more of a consideration, especially where there's no isolation circuits.
     

    sawlight

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    I understand. I just used your post as a conversation starter.

    In series circuits reverse biasing wouldn't normally occur, so matched pairs would be more of an efficiency boost with all having equal voltage.

    In parallel circuits matching might be more of a consideration, especially where there's no isolation circuits.
    Fair enough, wasn't a great night!
    Most of my battery education came from the flashlight world, so it was all series.
     
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