Hi, I'm new and I just spent a whole bunch of money I don't have to squander!

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Katya

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What's missing is this thing that usually hits me right in the middle of my forehead. And then wavers down through the rest of my body. What is it? It's not in the passionflower? One of the additives? Crikey...

Any one of those, perhaps? :evil:

Ammonia: Household cleaner
Angelica root extract: Known to cause cancer in animals
Arsenic: Used in rat poisons
Benzene: Used in making dyes, synthetic rubber
Butane: Gas; used in lighter fluid
Carbon monoxide: Poisonous gas
Cadmium: Used in batteries
Cyanide: Deadly poison
DDT: A banned insecticide
Ethyl Furoate: Causes liver damage in animals
Lead: Poisonous in high doses
Formaldehiyde: Used to preserve dead specimens
Methoprene: Insecticide
Napthalene: Ingredient in mothballs
Methyl isocyanate: Its accidental release killed 2000 people in Bhopal, India in 1984
Polonium: Cancer-causing radioactive element

There are about 4885 more, but those are my favs...
 
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kumquat

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Point taken, but I still miss it, whatever it is. I'll even argue that it's specific to Camels and not present in Nat Sherman, American Spirit or Parliaments, other brands I've danced with, or at least not in the same quantity. Camel spit straight to the third eye. It's probably the rat poison as I have no rats in my head. Is there a blood test to show arsenic levels? Sort of not kidding.
 

Hellen A. Handbasket

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demon72

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Hey, Thanks for the heads up kumquat! I'm actually in San Bernardino County (about an hour out from LA.) I'd love to head out to that on the 16th if I have the time. Laguna's only about an hour away from here as well. I'll be sure to keep up with the SoCal Subforum in the future. You better be careful if you gotta go to a birthday party that night... You might spend too much $ on all sorts of shenanigans at the meet up and give the birthday boy/girl a whole lotta nada! haha




SWEET! Yeah I still go through a couple battery's a day on the 510 but I'm quite pleased with it for being what it is and the price I got it for in a starter. I'm about to order the RIVA 510 SE right now. Everyone's been twisting my arm and everytime I go on that site I just keep adding to the cart without checking out! haha I'll have to check out the boge 2.0 cartos. I like the fact of filling them up for a good all day juice. Then again I'm pretty interested in drip tips as well. I dunno I'll have to do some more homework before I end up going broke for the weekend.

Guess I'll have to try both out. Thanks demon.

No wories....yea get a drip tip too...if nothing else its good for sampling flavors in an atty. San Bernardino county here too, Welcome!
 

Hellen A. Handbasket

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No, you're not quite understanding that. LOL

Smokers have elevated dopamine. The nicotine and the chemicals in cigarette smoke prevent (inhibit, as in MAOI) MAO B from breaking down the dopamine.

When we quit, we don't get that MAOI... and get that "What's missing?" feeling. That's why some use snus or snuff (or still smoke a few) to get our happy back!
 
No, you're not quite understanding that. LOL

Smokers have elevated dopamine. The nicotine and the chemicals in cigarette smoke prevent (inhibit, as in MAOI) MAO B from breaking down the dopamine.

When we quit, we don't get that MAOI... and get that "What's missing?" feeling. That's why some use snus or snuff (or still smoke a few) to get our happy back!

Very interesting articles and very revealing. I think that's why smoking has that calming effect that other nic replacement systems can't replicate, even vaping. I've been vaping for a month on 24 mg's, and I still crave analogs. Hopefully those craving will dissipate after a while, but I believe that even if I up my intake to 36 mg, those cravings will still persist, because it's a completely different chemical when combined with nic that is the culprit. Makes perfect sense.
 

birdbrains

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For me vaping has a very similar feeling to the "what's missing?" when I smoke American Spirits or any RYO instead of Parliaments, which I used to do on occasion. But it's much easier to deal with because I know the "what's missing" is some absolutely horrible chemical that most likely should be criminal to include a legally mass-marketed product. I can deal with the feeling if it means that PG/VG/Nicotine isn't rat poison.
 

Katya

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If you really want to experiment, I suggest you start a thread in the Health subfurum and ask questions there. There have been several discussions about adding passionflower to eliquids, but the results have not been conclusive and those experiments are not without risks. You're dealing with powerful drugs here, like harmine/harmaline, which just happen to be in the hallucinogenic family. Be careful. I strongly caution against it. If you want passionflower, just take the drops orally in conjuction with vaping.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-more-effective-e-liquid-123.html#post2689678

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...is-stress-anxiety-depression.html#post2564021

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-therapy/112077-cigrx-launch.html#post1725075

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rds-more-effective-e-liquid-2.html#post781298

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/34203-herbal-extract-e-juice-5.html#post665841

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/34203-herbal-extract-e-juice-2.html#post529913

Why not choose the safe route, though? Swedish snus, dissolvables and CigRX do work, alone or in combination with vaping, and I strongly you start there. You may also try Nhaler's Lung juice line--it has all kinds or goodies added in safe amounts--I've been using then for over a year and like them alot. I like Green Tea and Sleepy Time Green Tea.

6ML Lung Juice Samplers - Assorted Strength
 
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kumquat

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Hi Katya,

I've posted in at least two of the health threads, one on MAOIs in general and another on just passionflower and no one has responded. It seems that subforum doesn't get much action, for whatever reasons.

I do appreciate your concern and I'm certainly not encouraging anyone to follow my lead without doing their own research. I'm not intaking enough of this stuff to be hallucinating (those smurfs climbing up my wall are real!) and I only decided to try it after reading that it is most commonly used as a smoke product. So, I can't imagine that giving it even less heat than burning it would cause any problems, though, I readily admit, I'm no chemist and I have no data on how its non-MAOI ingredients directly interact with nicotine or VG, for that matter. I can only say that, as of now, I've had no ill effects other than feeling foggy and silly when I initially topped off my carto with too much of it. However, I have experienced an increased sense of relaxation when using it in my vape in relatively minor quantities. I take full responsibility for any potentially ill effects that I may or may not incur from vaping it. The recommended dosage on the bottle I bought is 40-60 drops 3 times a day between meals; I realize the intake volume, whatever it is, via vaping is different than ingesting it sublingualy, but I'm taking less than 1 drop per carto with the mix I made.

I did look for Ariva/Stonewall this morning, but the people who work at my pharmacy said that they no longer carry it. I'm not sure that they ever carried it, but that's what I was told by a stocker who refused to make eye contact after I was mistakenly sent to the herpes sore aisle for Abriva.

When I was last here, at ECF, maybe two years ago (?!), and nhaler was first starting up, I remember reading a lot of posts by people who were very concerned about whether or not the vitamins and herbs they use in their lungjuice were safe to vape. Are there any particular concerns you have in regards to passion flower extract being vaped which you don't feel towards the same drops being taken sublingualy? I'd certainly like to know if there's a known health risk which I'm not aware of. As I said in my OP, I'm vaping to reduce harm to myself and part of that entails trying to stick as closely to replicating smoking (initially) as I can to increase my chances of actually kicking analogs; I definitely don't want to be doing anything which would be putting myself at more or even equal risk for harm as smoking commercial tobacco does.

I'd, also, like to add that I think a simple bullet point sticky for newbies explaining the facts regarding MAOIs and alternatives to tobacco for getting them could be really helpful for those who do not find nicotine replacement via vape or whatever method to be wholly effective in solving their tobacco addiction. I believe that simply understanding, in layman's terms, what "that missing thing" is -- not to mention being aware of other options for obtaining it -- could keep a good number of people from reverting back to smokes. I, also, get that this is an e-cig forum so the focus is on e-cigs, but I think all of us, here, can sympathize with anyone who wants to kick the habit and, as we know, individual needs to achieving that can differ pretty wildly from person to person.

Best,

Kumquat
 
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Katya

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Just be careful. I assume you're not a child...:)

Brain chemistry is so complicated, so is the whole issue of addiction, as you know. The problem is, even people with advenced degrees in the field have no idea... I've been following several studies on adding selegiline--another MAO-B inhibitor--(in the form of patches) to smoking cessation therapies. Still nothing conclusive. Here's my exchange with Madame Psychosis, my dear ECF friend, on the subject:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-getting-we-not-nicotine-198.html#post1313103

I always enjoyed my discussions with her, but she left the forum. She had a degree, BTW. :p

It's a shame that those folks don't post much anymore--D'Vap, Tropical Bob, Madame P. and others.

As for Nhaler and their lung juices, I'm confident that they are safe; many people have been using them for years. Besides, the amounts of those herbs are probably too minuscule to make a difference... but I like them. Placebo effect is as good as anything, if you ask me. If you believe it works, you know, chances are it will work for you. :facepalm:

Get some dissolvables and/or Swedish snus. If you're in a hurry, go to a gas station--they sell American snus, Camel and, I believe, Marlboro. Not as good the the real thing, but it works.

And no matter what you do, expect some discomfort at the beginning of your transition away from smoking. It's inevitable.

Just read your edit--no, I don't have any information wrt inhaling vs other forms of taking PF...
 
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Katya

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Your guess is as good as mine. If it doesn't get better soon, talk to a doctor. It's illegal in my state to practice medicine without a licence! ;)

That said, it may be mild dehydration, detox, passionflower allergy...

Drink plenty of water--vaping is dehydrating. Go for a walk or swim; exercise is good releases endorphins into your bloodstream and you want endorphins.
 

kumquat

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Unfortunately, I can barely stand long enough to shower right now, much less do anything more vigorous, as a result of the fluoroquinolone poisoning. The FQ poisoning has been the push for me to get the rest of the toxins out of my body, i.e. kick the butts. So, anyway, exercise isn't really an option, at present, although I have been in less pain over the last week or so (was actually able to walk to the mailbox on Friday for the first time in over 3 months) and am hopeful that this trend will continue. At this point, I take about 30 supplements a day for my FQ toxicity and some of those are specifically for detoxification. If the itchiness continues, I suppose, new experiments will be in order. I'm drinking water with CellFood and CellFood Silica in it right now.
 
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