Germany: E-cigs caused “respiratory tract irritation and dizziness” to bystanding TC lobbyists

[Tom09]

Heidelberg. Dr. Martina Pötschke-Langer has tested the electronic cigarette [...]. Not that the scientist [sic!], who directs the Stabsstelle Krebsprävention [Executive Office Cancer Prevention] at the Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum [German Cancer Research Center] (DKFZ) Heidelberg, would have smoked herself. She let smoke, rather, to learn firsthand what is going on with the supposedly harmless alternative to the real .... "After two e-cigarettes had been smoked in the room, my colleagues and I had respiratory irritation and dizziness feeling," said Martina Pötscke-Langer yesterday to the press in Heidelberg.
[...]
This self-test confirmed to the scientist [sic!] what studies have already shown [sic!]: the e-cigarette, advertised by manufacturers and retailers as a healthier alternative to conventional fags, is no way to stop smoking and also has no license-to-smoke in Non-smoking areas.
[...]
Due to the meager data available at the time, it is not possible to estimate the extent to which electronic cigarettes contaminate the air, Martina Pötschke-Langer is clearly against e-cigarettes in no smoking zones - also to protect young people. "Because the consumption of cigarette-like products contributes to the fact that smoking is perceived as socially acceptable behavior," emphasized the scientist [sic!].

Source: my non-authoritative translation of this German news article: Die E-Zigarette ist brennend interessant, RNZ, Dec 1 2011

Background: the Stabsstelle Krebsprävention is the WHO Collaborating Centre on tobacco Control in Germany. Similar to the TobReg club at WHO, the Stabsstelle Krebsprävention is highly influential in swearing public opinion, because it reaches out with an authority-umbrella led from a highly reputable organization (i.e. the DKFZ, here).

Back to the referenced article: Pötschke-Langer seems quite desperate, not only to blurb the common TC half-truths, but to present such unqualified allegations - for everyone out to test. Her present authority relies on an exploit of the well-earned reputation of the Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum (DKFZ). When will the real scientists stand up?

 

[Running Wolf]

OK, I'd like to see this experiment repeated with those results. Doesn't seem like science to me.... those people who do the 'ghost hunting' have a better scientific method that that nut job.

Wouldn't it be better to have a chemical and gas analysis of the air in the room?

I had the chili for lunch. I walked into a room after two e-cigs had been smoked in it. I farted. Therefore the e-cigs caused me to fart.

 

[SonnyCrack]

My mother in law gets the irratation in the same room as well.. (and no she isn't fibbing).. Even from 6-8 feet away...

Just sayin..

 

[sammy43]

Running Wolf - I am going to use that one the next time my wife cooks up a pot of chili. "Honey, I am serious...there was a study in Germany that confirms e-cigs make you fart".

I wonder what equipment and nic level they were using? I think any non smoker that picked up an e-cig with say 18mg nic and puffed two cigs worth would indeed be dizzy. Reminds of the first time I tried Skoal when I was a teenager. I think I turned three different shades of green.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

My dad complains and claims that it makes him cough even from the other side of the room. But funnily enough only if he sees it (in other words if I vape when his backs turned he's none the wiser).

 

[rothenbj]

OK, I'd like to see this experiment repeated with those results. Doesn't seem like science to me.... those people who do the 'ghost hunting' have a better scientific method that that nut job.

Wouldn't it be better to have a chemical and gas analysis of the air in the room?

I had the chili for lunch. I walked into a room after two e-cigs had been smoked in it. I farted. Therefore the e-cigs caused me to fart.

I don't think we need a scientific survey, just a re-creation. Put her in the room with a vapor. Blindfold her and have her tell you when she starts feeling dizzy and her throat bothered. Have the vapor make sounds as if he/she is exhaling vapor and see how long before the symptoms start. Proof positive that E cigs cause third hand vapor exposure risks.

 

[Running Wolf]

Exactly, not seeing and not being effected. It tends to be a psychosomatic response. It is not science. To have science you have to have quantifiable data.

If I leave a glob of jell-o outside in the summer it will have ants crawling on it soon. If I walked away and came back I would say that the ants spontaneously generated out of the jell-o.

To have a human interaction turns science into pseudo-science. To withstand the scientific method you have to have repeatable results that can be repeat by every individual doing the experiment. The whole problem with (I thought it was just this country but it must be Germany too) is the dumbing down of science.

Plus the ingestion of 1ml of juice into the body it will be a greater concentration than if exhaled into a 10x10 (also have to account for cleaning products used, perfumes being worn, human body odor, and other factors) the PPM will be so low. Compare it to adding a drop of water to a shot glass of water, take that up to a coffee cup, up to 1l bottle of water, to a 10gallon aquarium, to 30gallon aquarium, to a 55gallon aquarium. Law of diminishing returns.

I think what they did was more a soft science experiment with psychology rather than an actual medical or physical air quality experiment. If I took you into a house with noisy plumping and bad insulation and told you it was haunted you would feel ghosts in cold spots and unexplained noises would be restless spirits. The thought of ghosts was implanted before hand. It skews your own perception.

 

[Ande]

Jesus.

Yeah, I've ran into a few people who say the vapor bothers them. (Even a few smokers who claim it must be worse than smoking because it makes the cough.) For this reason, I can't vape in the staff room where I work. Got an anti who says she can smell it "for days."
But it's a funny thing- when I work weekends (and am the only one in the staff room) I vape up a storm. And nobody who claims they can smell it "for days" (after seeing vapor) ever knows it's happened.

If this is science, I am the queen of England.

Ande

 

[Rickajho]

Gee, well let me tally up the sample data in that 'lil experiment and get back to you when I can validate it as a "scientific study."

Sheesh! People Magazine could come up with better science than that.

Rick

 

[jtpjc]

I would feel sick too if two e-cigs were smoked in the same room. You're supposed to VAPE them, not set them on fire!

 

[tommy2bad]

Funny old thing the brain, makes our bodies do what we expect it to do, good and bad.
Placebo, nocebo.
I wonder if the people this is directed at will place the same weight on this as on all the opposite 'opinion'

 

[Running Wolf]

Sure as hell wouldn't stand up to an FDA drug study. I was involved in a study.

Little bit I found out about FDA drug studies. Say I have a preexisting condition. Just to suit my sense of humor make it chronic flatulence. Take part in an FDA study and if you're tooting up a storm in the doc's office they will say that chronic flatulence is possible side effect. If you're an insomniac to start with the same goes. But on the same turn in a drug study they have double blind panels and not even the doctors know if you are getting the real drug or a placebo.

Two people walking into a room where someone has vaped, knowing that someone has vaped just sets things up for the placebo effect.... like I said about telling someone a place is haunted (they are more likely to say they experienced a paranormal phenomenon since the idea was planted before the experience). It's not science. There is no control group. There is no analysis of the air quality of the room. I could go on and on poking holes in the "study" and I'm not a scientist. I've got a friend who is a PhD at U of Penn, I'm sure if I sent that paper to him her would be able to poke more holes in it than a woodpecker on a dead tree.

 

[rolygate]

This test has already been carried out more efficiently and the result was negative.

An honest anti tobacco smoke campaigner was placed in a room with 200 e-cig users vaping up a storm. He reported no noticeable effects. (Bill G., at Vapefest.)

[with apologies to Bill G for the previous jocular terminology, now edited]

 

[jtpjc]

Give this Bill G. a job with the FDA!

 

[Ande]

Give this Bill G. a job with the FDA!

Best idea I've heard in years. The Pharma companies wouldn't know what hit'em.

 

[Running Wolf]

Best idea I've heard in years. The Pharma companies wouldn't know what hit'em.

I think I would pay to see that.

 

[MattZuke]

Yeah, I've ran into a few people who say the vapor bothers them. (Even a few smokers who claim it must be worse than smoking because it makes the cough.) For this reason, I can't vape in the staff room where I work. Got an anti who says she can smell it "for days."

To be honest, I do have two friends who don't use scented anything, and they find Juicy Vapor Pomegranate pervasive. And to be honest, they're kind of right, this aroma does persist for days. However other flavors don't have the same result.

Might i suggest a glade plug-in filled with your favorite flavor

 

[rothenbj]

This test has already been carried out more efficiently and the result was negative.

An honest, rabid anti-smoker was placed in a room with 200 e-cig users vaping up a storm. He reported no noticeable effects. (Bill G., at Vapefest.)

Roly, I almost forgot about Bill's intro into a serious vaping environment. That was quite the experiment.

 

[Running Wolf]

My dad is sensitive to cigarette smoke. His sinuses flare up around some people wearing perfumes, I know I have walked past people with some perfumes/aftershaves and ended up with a pre-migrane soon after.

I think if my vaping would bother someone it would have been my dad's uber sensitive sinuses.

 

[Vocalek]

I get dizziness and digestive tract irritation from reading stupid statements made by so-called scientists.