Genesis style weird taste vs Phoenix

[dhomes]

Hi all,

i have two Genesis type rba, one an AGA-T, the other a DiD clone (a vulcan). the AGA-T is running @ 1.7 ohms on 28 Kanthal, 9/10 wraps w/no hotspots, very little gurgling (say, the first second), on a 80 mm 500 mesh roll tight with a paperclip size hole.

The Vulcan is on 400 SS mesh with 32 kanthal on 3/4 wraps on 2 ohms

And both my Phoenix are running on vertical SS Mesh, 32 Kanthal.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but the Phoenixs beat the genesis in taste by a very wide margin

The Genesis have a bit of a metallic taste

What's the reason for this?

 

[Thrasher]

ok first there should be zero gurgling on a geni, so that has me intrigued,
but on a coil a metallic taste is almost always due to a hot or cold spot on the coil or uneven heating/glowing.

 

[dhomes]

well, i have 0 hotspots for the first 7 seconds, then just a tiny one (<1 mm) at the mesh edge, where it meets the top most coil.

I did the petar-k method, spent a lot of time making sure each wrap was as equally spaced as the next and they fire pretty at the same time

but this is on a wich & coild I just built, I have found that minor spots mostly go away after a day

The gurgling happens if I tilt it too much or haven't vaped in more than an hour

But why are genesis so picky compared to Phoenixs? I'm pretty much careless on those (after some practice of course) and they always work and taste great, I'm doing 1.1 & 1.2 Ohm coils on those and just vaping on regular EGO bats for 9 watts vaping and they hit better than my AGA-T on a provari

 

[dhomes]

btw, first time I heard of a cold spot, I'd assume that means everything else if red hot on a dry burn except for one spot, right?

 

[Thrasher]

yea a cold spot is same as hot spot just different temp lol (if that makes sense)

and why are they so different. are you also using mesh in the phoenix? this is a good question that i really dont have an answer for if your doing mesh in both.
the geni has to deal with the wick going through a hole in the body which is a possible spot for shorts to occur. as well as the coil has to be wrapped differnt so it also doesnt cause a short through the mesh.

i know my phoenix is simple too, i use silica though and wrap it, install it done. but all i can say is when or if you get it to work the geni will choke you with as much or more vapor then a phoenix. my first time was a nightmare, for a few days i fought and struggled and almost gave up. but i said no way too many other people do this i cant be the only one on the planet who cant get it right.

I switched wire and havent had any crazy problems since. i would say get away from 28 and try some 32 or even 30 for nowpart of the problem at first is the 28 takes so many wraps to get it right. whereas 3 to 5 wraps of 32 will give you about the same ohms you got now with more room to work on them.

 

[dhomes]

Trasher,

yeah, both Phoenix are on vertical SS mesh, i used to use silica, then cotton/mesh hybrid, now pure mesh. it gives me the cleanest taste I have ever had (including Genesis). i'd suggest you try them. Ninja vapes has a nice entry on his site on Phoenix / SS Mesh (Ninja Vapes). VERY clean, very tasty.

The only downsize to Phoenix, is the need to drip so often. that's why I'm still using the genesis.

I actually just switched down to 28, with 32 I kept getting very bad hot spots. I may try 30 kanthal next.

And I'm not saying my Genis dont work, it's just I'm not as impressed as with the Phoenixs with Mesh

What wattage do you usually use for Genesis?

 

[Thrasher]

pfff i dunno lol. i run around 1.8-2.2 ohms at anywhere between 3.8 and 4.2v. i dont go to the trouble of figuring it out, (i have a VW mod and dont even use it lol) i go by vapor output and taste and temp. i trust my feel for it more then i do a setting. cause not all juices vape the same at the same setting. and i dont change juices or tanks a lot.

I get tired of dripping the only one i want now for dripping is a dripper pro

and you would be shocked there are devices when set up correctly they blow mesh out of the water for taste. i just cant find what i want in stock or the classies. but i love my geni's i can get them to vape like an old worn out diesel freight train

 

[dhomes]

what would blow mesh out of the water? I mean, once you get to wicking materials that are tasteless it's just the juice and the coil.
I mean porous ceramic sounds great but it also is tasteless, so it would be equal to SS Mesh

 

[Thrasher]

try and get your hands on a spheroid or an odesseus, and the ceramic is just to isolate the coil they use regular style wicks.

all im saying is if your getting the taste with mesh from a phoenix but not the geni theres something not set up the same then.
they shoud not gurgle unless your flooding the vape chamber wick may be causing the problems your having.
even by your own admission they are pretty much the same thing so why wouldnt they taste the same?

 

[dhomes]

I've been thinking on a Terminator, I'm not onto hunting down devices for months like in the odysseus (already gave up on a GGTS)

and yeah, I know they SHOULD perform the same, but on my case it's just not happening

 

[vapdivrr]

to many wraps man, 28g is for low resistances. did you say 8 or 9 wraps? like thrasher said either go to a higher resistant wire or lower your ohms with the 28. imo with 28g you shouldnt go more than 5 or 6 wraps. also try the oxidation method, granted the peter k method could work, but try the oxidation method first. burnt taste without hot spots are almost always a sign of a poorly oxidized wick. oxidizing the wick really well will eliminate your issue along with taking off about 3 t 4 of your wraps.

 

[vapdivrr]

oh, 10 wraps, wow. how do you even fit 10 wraps of 28g on an aga-t? i promise you if you oxidized your wick really well and did a 5/6 or 6/7 wrap you will really like the device better than the other one you have.

 

[twohandedcreations]

I get a metallic taste in every situation, UNLESS I pre burn my coil wire with the torch prior to wrapping my coil. doing this solved my problem 100%...! I get my entire res. wire glowing red hot with the torch 2 or 3 times before I coil it.

 

[dhomes]

@vapdivrr, 10 wraps on aga-t is not that hard using the petar-k method, i just roll each wrap touching the previous one on a drill bit, then space them evenly with a small flat screw driver, at the end each one is spaced by about 1 mm (it's a 9.5 wrap really).

I oxidize using a stove, haven't been able to find a butane torch yet (I don't live in the USA) but my understanding is that using a stove does work as well. It a torch absolutely necessary?

 

[dhomes]

@twoheadedcreations, i do that as well, heat the coil to red-hot for about a second or two throughout its length

 

[Thrasher]

i would have to believe its just too many wraps causing the problems.so much area and heat transfer over too much of the wick surface to be truly effective.

 

[vapdivrr]

@vapdivrr, 10 wraps on aga-t is not that hard using the petar-k method, i just roll each wrap touching the previous one on a drill bit, then space them evenly with a small flat screw driver, at the end each one is spaced by about 1 mm (it's a 9.5 wrap really).

I oxidize using a stove, haven't been able to find a butane torch yet (I don't live in the USA) but my understanding is that using a stove does work as well. It a torch absolutely necessary?

i see by using that method you would be able to get that many wraps, its just that i am so used to seeing between 4 and 6 wraps, that 9 or 10 seems crazy. the only thing is it may take a while for those coils to heat up compared to less coils. with my usaul 4 wraps my coils heat up super fast, so i get a really fast draw. i believe a gas stove would work fine, it may be a little harder to manipulate but in the end i believe it works as well. i am a believer in really getting a good oxidation layer on the wick. i have seen the peter k method of barely oxidizing the wick, but in time the coils oxidize the wick anyways. maybe in the no oxidized method it may take a tank full or two before the taste is there, but if you fully oxidize first the taste is there from the start. to be honest i dont know much how the no oxidation wick really performs.

 

[dhomes]

vap, I too normally use 3/4 wraps on kanthal 32, I'm just testing new configuration and what not, read somewhere that the more are you have heating the wick the better vapor and taste although it would take a bit longer to heat properly, a second or so.

That's why I went with 28, I could still get low ohms with lots of warps.

 

[vapdivrr]

vap, I too normally use 3/4 wraps on kanthal 32, I'm just testing new configuration and what not, read somewhere that the more are you have heating the wick the better vapor and taste although it would take a bit longer to heat properly, a second or so.

That's why I went with 28, I could still get low ohms with lots of warps.

gotcha, i remember that once i did a many wrap coil, maybe like 7, it seemed like my genny was always hot , and my coil got gunked up quicker, so i never really pursued the higher wraped coil. but thats why these gennys are so cool. some like it this way,some like it that way. its unreal how many different configurations you can do with these. good luck