Fatty v2 bottom feeding rebuildable atomizer prototype by Chris Creations & OKC Vapes

[clyde2801]

Got a text from OKC Vapes' John informing he was back from the big vaping convention in New York.* He was telling me that he was mentioning the BF Fatty to someone when he was instantly approached by two people toting Reo Grands. He was a little surprised, I wasn't.

He also threw a bit of ceramic wick for me to try. A piece roughly a inch long cost $5, but I'm not sure if that's his cost or retail. Naturally, I broke off a piece the right size and installed it with some 32 gauge kanthal. A picture is enclosed. Before you say anything, I noticed from the picture the coil on the left side and tucked it in a bit.



It's very hard, porous and breakable. Juice feeds through the pores and gets to the coil. As you can imagine, coiling is comparatively easy (assuming you're not a weak eyed middle aged guy). The coil doesn't grab the ceramic very tightly, and the first thing that came to my mind is that it would be supremely easy to slide it out and slide in a couple of threads of cotton. In theory, it should dry burn and not scorch like silica and cotton, and be reusable by rinsing it under water while rolling it with your fingers.

I'm not even twenty minutes into this setup, and so far I'm having mixed reactions. The coil's starting to break in, and after vaping predominantly silica wicks for the past couple of weeks, it has a really clean taste. No muting of flavor. Not quite stainless steel quality, but close. I can also tell when the wick's dry, because it tastes a bit like I'm vaping a...it's hard to describe...a piece of charcoal or pumice. Not terribly pleasant, but you definitely know when it's time to squonk again. It also negates one of my favorite attributes of the Fatty, the ability to use ridiculously long silica or cotton wicks for more vaping between squonks.

Incidentally, I discovered the Fatty still has it's roots in a dripping rebuildable; it does a very good job at holding dripped juice in the floor of the mod and getting it to the (short) coil. If you don't squonk until the dripped juice is used up, it won't be sucked down into the bottle. In other words, you can fill a bottle with chocolate juice and drip coconut without ending up with a half bottle of Mounds bar at the end of the day. That was always a favorite Reo feature of mine when using regular 510's and 306's back in the day.

Think I'm going to play around with this a bit. Besides gauging the overall vaping experience, I want to see: a) how long a coil can comfortably last compared to silica and if it dry burns easier, b) if it can be easily reused, and (most importantly) c) if the wick can be used in self feeding mode with the 'choke and pour' method I was describing previously.

I'll try it with an open mind, but I doubt I'll be throwing out my silica and cotton thread unless I experience a, b, AND c.



*Ooooeee! Don't yew Noo Yerkers think yer sumthin', what with yer big vapin' meetins, all werein shoes and yer opposable thumbs n' all...

 

[pianoguy]

Clyde, here's a little light reading for ya:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modding-forum/362182-next-big-thing-porous-ceramic-wicks.html

 

[clyde2801]

Testing the ceramic when I got home, ugh over 2.4 ohms. But I was thinking it was a feeling a little 2009 on a 3.7 mod, if you know what I mean.

So, out comes the VVG. Hey, the shiny yellowjacket has earned a couple of days off.

 

[pianoguy]

The coil needs to have very tight contact with the ceramic wicks - some folks are "hot wrapping" them, heating the wire while wrapping.

 

[clyde2801]

I guess the tighter wrap would help improve the wick's ability to....well, for lack of a better word, wick ejuice to the coil. Will have to try that.

But scubatandan I believe is using this in one of his genesis style tank rba mods, it may not be as necessary in a bottom or top feeder. Right now I'm getting a few good hits in between squonks, and the coil seems to be clutching the ceramic tighter than it first did, at least the wick's not easily removable like it was at first. Maybe a little juice gunk is building up around the coil.

It's often been said that the enemy of the best is the good enough, and the looser wrap is good enough for right now. I'll redo it the manner you suggested, right after my existing coil needs replacing.

 

[clyde2801]

Ceramic coil was still holding in there this morning, but I decided to try again so I could use this on the mechanical grand with the prescribed o-rings to ensure no juice leaks. It also makes it easier to juice.

Twas a struggle to get it set up just now-for a whole variety of reasons, great late nights rarely lead to stellar early mornings-but mission accomplished. I don't think I would have been able to do a ceramic coil on any other RBA just now. 1.92 ohms. Bit higher than I was wanting for 3.7 volts, but technically in the higher range of low resistance. Certainly better than 2.43 ohms.

The other thing that's going through my mind is John from OKCVapes suggestion of making a 'hook'(?) at the ends of the wire. Didn't really understand what he meant by that, but it occurred to me that if I keep the ends of the coil a bit long but bend them out to a 45 degree angle a few millimeters from the coil it would make it easier to wrap them around the bolts and hold in them in place while I'm tightening them down. I'll have to try that next time, as it make bring my recoiling time down to one or two minutes max.

That's probably it for now, unless I have an epiphany or a disaster. Easter weekend, so literally every moment is spoken for with family, religious and social obligations, so I hope this new coil holds. Oh, and the new episode of Doctor Who is tonight!

 

[Gioajack]

See, told ya there was a slight learning curve coiling the Fatty. Certainly nothing insurmountable or even difficult simply different than a double post design.

Several months ago I picked up a few Fatty clones on a co-op for $4 each. It's actually pretty amazing how well they work. (The top caps that adjusts the air flow turned too easily but a small piece of plumber's tape around the threads fixed that straight away.)

Jack

 

[clyde2801]

It reminds me of recoiling the mark t top down rba by the mark bugs folks, except that the place where you have to place the ends of the coil around on that mod are slightly raised. I personally think the fatty is easier, despite the posts being so close together.

And I tried it again on the ceramic wick, 1.18 ohms! There we go!!! And I may have misunderstood what pianoguy was saying earlier: it's easier to get a better coil if you heat the middle of the wire with a lighter for a second RIGHT BEFORE you try wrapping it around the wick. I thought he was trying to tell me that it needs to be heated WHILE you're wrapping it, and I was wondering how the heck I was supposed to accomplish THAT?!? I was thinking you'd have to be one of those Hindu gods with two or three sets of arms...

With the ceramic, it goes from roughly 1.2 to 1.9 ohms when I go from two to three complete coils with my 30 gauge kanthal. I'm so used to at least three coils that I'm almost having to force myself to use this configuration. I don't know how long it will last, but I'm enjoying the results right now, except that it's needing squonked more often than before. Guess I'll just vape it until it pops or I get bored and tweak with a different setup.

Hopefully I'll get a quick nap in between shopping and getting ready for my 9 year old niece's birthday dinner; she wanted to go to a Japanese fry'er up atcher table steakhouse. (Wonder what'll happen when she turns 16. Will her Dad fly her to have a steak at Delmonico's in NYC?) Then Doctor Who before lights out. Tomorrow, easter lunch with my mom at the assisted living center 1 1/2 hrs away, followed by a late afternoon cookout with DW's family. Wish me luck.

 

[clyde2801]

Well, my 1.2 ohm coil on the ceramic wick from Saturday morning was starting to lose its freshness after four days. Not bad, maybe the same or a little better than I was getting with silica wicks. I was going to say lighter juices would probably help, but then again you don't generally have lighter juices with a RBA on a Reo for very long. Kind of a pity, because I was generally starting to like this setup on the fatty once it was broken in, even though more frequent, if lighter, squonks were required.

Was about to get out the allen wrench this morning, when I decided what the heck, I'll try a dry burn. I never did have much luck with that maneuver in the old days before RBA's or even cartos became widespread on Reos. It used to be a total desperation move, back when crap attys cost generally $9 or more, and you had to wait extended periods to get replacements in the mail. I'd generally get at most an extra days vape out of an atty, assuming I didn't pop the coil in the process. Reason being, the wick material would scorch and not conduct juice to the wick very efficiently. I think this was the big reason for rebuildables in the first place, before features like adjustable air flow and the like.

Pulled the top piece from my ceramic'ed ULR fatty and installed it on my VVG. Slowly got the coils glowing toaster orange a few time, let it cool and put it back on my anodized yellowjacket Grand. Granted, I'm less than an hour into using it after the burn, but it seems to be working as well as when it was first broken in.

So, what's the big deal about a good dry burn on an RBA? Aren't easy and quick coil changes the whole reason behind them in the first place? Yes, and so are flexibility, longevity and ease of use. When a silica coil starts to conk out, I either have to stop what I'm doing and recoil (not always practical), put up with a substandard vape (always not as pleasurable) or switch to another atty or carto. This setup allows me to pop the top anywhere and get that fresh as a daisy feeling in a few seconds without any tools required.

And let's say I can pull this trick a few more times, and get a couple of weeks or more out of this ULR setup. I always have the option at any time to start with a fresh coil, more options than silica. And if I can get a month or more out of this setup-remember it's 1.2 ohms-it boggles the mind.

NOW, here's the interesting part. WHAT IF someone could make the ceramic wick smaller and put it into a regular atomizer? If it dry burned this easily and was rugged enough to last at least a month, I could see myself contentedly paying $15-20 for them. I could also see a lot of newbs lining up for them as well. And if it lasted longer and/or could be made even cheaper....well, it could just mark the start of a post-RBA world.

 

[sonofthesun]

I've been rocking Fatty's for a while (A v1 was my upgrade from the Phoenix, then i bought a Fattyv2 from the Phillipines in December) and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the two people coming up as soon as word got out that he had a bottom feed upgrade for the fatty were me and my friend.

I'm a bit disapointed - and its probably user error (largely). I understand its a work in progress, but one screw was too long, both were badly cut and required filing to either allow things to thread on or for them to be the correct length. The post upgrade only half worked, at best.

I'm experiencing an error I can't figure out - the Fatty v2 will be fine for a few minutes, then stop firing, and I'll read 2+ volts across the posts, with and without the orings. With the o-rings, it barely threads onto either of my Grands, and I can't seem to resolve the issue. I double checked, the hot springs are fine.

I use XC-116 ceramic pretty much exclusively in drippers, and I love building the Fatty, i'm just a bit out of practice, but across 8 builds with the same issues, I'm fairly sure theres something wrong with the Fatty v2 upgraded itself - i'll tear it down again and reinstall it in a day or so, right now I'm close to putting it through the wall.

Any insite would be appreciated. When it works, the V2 bottom feed is delightful, but its not enough of the time right now that thats largely immaterial. I'm really grumpy right now, but I do love the Fatty, OKC vapes, and bottom feeding. I just need to sort out this hitch.

 

[clyde2801]

Are you in OKC? And did you cut or file down that (damned ugly) protruding center screw? I'm thinking that may be causing the issue, as it is necessary to touch the center plate at the bottom of the Reo's 510 housing. The one or two times I briefly had issues with it firing was from not tightening the center screw (actually, I think it's a bolt) enough after recoiling.

Especially with the o-rings, its a bit touchy to get it on the Grand, but at most it takes an extra second to get it seated correctly.

 

[sonofthesun]

I got mine at NY Vapefest.

I'll give it another shot in a few days. It vapes great when it vapes, and the bottom feeding is awesome - no little pool like on the hornet, it all goes back down.

 

[clyde2801]

Ah, John mentioned he was approached by a couple of Reonauts at the big meet!

And it's funny that what some consider to be a feature, others consider to be a flaw. There's a lot of people who like the pool on other rbas...less squonking required, and who don't like the excess juice being sucked down as it darkens the juice in the bottle.

Ideally, the Fatty could and should take more advantage in its roots as a dripping rebuildable. Try dripping an insane amount of another flavor-10 or 15 drops-in through the top and see how well it handles it. Don't worry, it won't go into the bottle unless you squonk. I wish the setup wasn't so darned efficient at drawing juice back into the bottle; I'd prefer it to get that coil really good and wet with a single squonk and allow more vapes between squeezings.

What's the big deal about an RBA on a juice feeder that allows for excellent juice feedings? Choice, pure and simple: the ability to take multiple hits off of a single dripping with another flavor without much worry of juice contamination. You can vape your favorite flavor all day off the bottle and then drip another juice when you get home without having to change the bottle and purging the feed tube.

Come to think of it, maybe the 'excess' suction of the juice may be a good thing.

 

[clyde2801]

It's been a week with the 1.2 ohm coil on ceramic wick on the fatty, and so far, so good. A daily dry burn, getting the coils to a bright toaster orange, seems to be all it requires to keep it at peak effectiveness. You can actually see little brown spots on the coil initially appear and quickly disappear in the process. This is after vaping this setup all day 'like a research monkey' using darker, predominantly VG juices. I'm thinking that, assuming it can take this for at least a month, a similar setup in a conventional atty may be the wave of the future.

And in case you're wondering why this shouldn't be a separate ceramic coil torture test thread, the Fatty is still relevant: it's also a torture and stress test for this RBA. I've read and heard that that dry burns are also hard on rebuildables and can possibly damage their internal components, especially any delrin. It's a good way to ascertain if the Fatty really is as tough as a soviet tank. In case you haven't ascertained from my signature, I'm pretty tough on mods. The modmaster calls me the 'Sampsonite gorilla of mod testers'. If the Fatty stands up to my toughest, most punishing treatment for an extended time, it's a very good thing.

Posts on this thread may slow down a bit as I continue to put it through its paces. Other than checking in every week, there may not be anything else unless I have an epiphany or a catastrophe. And if it's the latter, at least I'm reassured by the fact that the distributor is two or three miles down the road from me. If Heaven forbid, the Fatty does bite the bullet, I'm fairly reassured of a quick postmortem followed by a repair or replacement. Otherwise, even I'd think twice about putting a mod I'm really enjoying through this type of punishment.

 

[clyde2801]

Okay, after a few quick texts, been told the Fatty base has been upgraded and should handle the dry burns.

Party on, Garth.

 

[pianoguy]

Hey Clyde - they are, in fact, wrapping the wick with hot wire. Somewhere deep in that thread Dan put together a gizmo that heats the wire as the wick is being wrapped around the wick. Some ingenuity required, but no Hindu gods with multiple arms ;-)

 

[clyde2801]

Okay, another non-strictly Fatty post. Sterno set me up with a updated bottle setup for my 'old school' polished, anodized yellowjacket Grand. It is so damned shiny, it looks like I'm vaping a small gold brick at a distance. Went from the original 6 ml bottle to a (VV Grand style) 9 ml bottle and thicker tube.

Not only does it remedy the smaller bottle I found to be lacking in the original Grand, it also seems to feed better. Puts the OMG (original mechanical grand) on more of an equal footing with its VV offshoot, especially with a ULR coil. Wish I had done it much earlier.

Thanks again, Sterno. I'm grateful to be your chauffeur. Sorry I'm about to fire you as my recoiler....

 

[clyde2801]

After experiencing firsthand the Slumberland effect, I started having problems myself with my Fatty screwing onto my Grand, with or without o-rings. Sterno has also ended his involvement with the project for a different reason...he just enjoys his A7 and A7 mini too much to mess with another rebuildable. It wasn't a fair test, and it wasn't meant to be: he never did care for the 901 style side air inlet hole on rebuildables. It's a personal preference that I can't argue with, I may as well try to change his religion. Come to think of it, an A7 on a Reo may just BE his religion....

And in a case of incredibly crappy timing, work in OKC on this project is stopping, at least temporarily: the OKC Vapes folks are putting their limited time and resources into fighting Senate Bill 802, proposed legislation which will tax vape vendors, outlaw selling to minors, and most importantly de facto classify ecigs as tobacco products and limit the distribution and importation of ejuice to the tobacco industry. I can't say I blame them; what good is having a good rebuildable if I don't have good juice to enjoy it with? And the OKC Vape folks are then going to a regional vape meet to check out the latest and greatest. I'd love to have their jobs...if they didn't work so hard.

But don't count the bottom feeding Fatty out completely just yet. The local folks may return to it if and when the state legislation is defeated. I'm also told there's another way to mount the Fatty on a bottom feeder using adapted open 510 connectors. I'm not a fan of using adapters on a Reo, but I'm willing to approach it with an open mind if I'm provided with one. In addition, it may also allow the Fatty to be used on more Reo models than the Grand.

There's also the possibility Chris Creations may adapt the Fatty design a bit in house to accomplish this purpose. This would be a more ideal solution, as a longer 510 base or a custom made adapter from the manufacturer should provide better results than a 3rd party add on. To that effect, the bulk of my Reo collection is headed towards the Philippines to assist in this endeavor. OKCVapes has vouched for their safe return, and I trust them in this matter.

The Fatty is a helluva atomizer, and has a lot of things going for it...a solid design, relatively easy coil rebuilding, ability to act as a good dripper as well as a bottom feeder, and adjustable airflow on the v2 model being some of its best attributes. If it wasn't for that damned 510 connection, it would easily be my favorite rebuildable. Worst case scenario, I'll either get a shorter center bolt for my prototype or take a Dremel to it and stick it on a tube mod or my Darwin. It's ridiculously long silica wick makes it a valid choice for either a backup or to enjoy it at home in my easy chair. Which is something I can't say for my other dripper rebuildables. Hell, it may even leave the house...if I know I'm going to say in the office most of the day. However, for now, I have to say that this is not a prototype, but more of a 'proof of concept' mod and is NOT for the average vaper.

And it's not like me, or the remainder of my Reo collection left, will suffer. Now to decide what I want to use with my OMG (original mechanical grand) and VVG (VV Grand). I still have my original chalice prototype, a hornet, and at least one a7 in the meanwhile. I think I'll have to put some of my vast collection of gently used SR 510's on my VVG and vape old school for a bit. At least, until the Reomizer 2.0 is ready. Or I'm told that work on the BF Fatty will be resumed in earnest.

And I'm itching to compare and contrast the Reomizer 2 with the BF Fatty. since both are essentially dripper RBA's modded by 3rd parties to work with Reos. It's not exactly a fair comparison, as the Fatty is a working prototype/proof of concept made by a couple of guys who had access to one Grand, and the other has been extensively modded and tested by the mod's designer. But then again, life ain't fair; you don't like it, go run home and tell yer Momma.

 

[manglepup]

Thanks for the extensive reviewing. I have an ERA on the way, plan on getting at least one Reomizer 2, and an A7. Its cool to know that the BF Fatty could be an option down the road (or maybe a mc Arb...). I am just currently not satisfied with the wobbly center post on the A7 (I do have a fix on there, but I worry what would happen if it is knocked loose).

 

[Ratman]

I appreciate the updates Clyde. I was really hoping to see or even better, try one of these on my recent visit to OKC vapes but Chris and Stephanie had just left for NY the previous day. Although I was an early proponent of the A7, I converted to the side air inlet only. Even going so far as to side drill my remaining A7s. If you guys need to someone to take over testing of Sternos test atty. I would happily volunteer for the job. I have or have had most of the BF RBAs on the market to compare it too.