E Cigarette sales rapidly lose steam - WSJ

[nicnik]

Also the regular deterioration of the vape -- first hit great, each succeeding hit much less so.

I know that other people have that complaint, too, but it's not been my experience except when the batteries start getting old (including the PCC battery).

 

[AndriaD]

I know that other people have that complaint, too, but it's not been my experience except when the batteries start getting old (including the PCC battery).

I noticed it right off the bat, how the first hit would really hit the spot... but after that, I'd struggle and struggle to find satisfaction. That's why I didn't even wait till I had fully quit smoking to order a vv3; got it about a week before I had actually quit, but I couldn't use it because those iClear16 tanks were so awful; had to wait till payday to go to a B&M and get a BCC -- that day happened to be my first day smoke-free, and once I got that, I stayed that way. I also put the eRoll in a drawer and didn't even look at it again until I had to regain my smoke-free status after my relapse. The eRoll is great for a gateway into vaping... but that's about all.

Andria

 

[Mike Abrams]

So here's my take (for what it's worth):
Folks tried the BT cig-a-likes, OMG! Is That All Their Is?
The News Flies, OMG! E-Cigs Are Gonna Kill Us All!
The FDA, OMG! Prohibition!!!!
The State and Local Govments, OMG! The Taxes! The Prohibition! The Restrictions!
The prices for PVs has dropped considerably of late.
Increase in competition putting pressure on high profit margins.

Could any of this have something to do with the growth rate decline?

Good points, and I also can't help but wonder how much of this is sour grapes now that big tobacco must realize they don't have a dog in the hunt. If you can't beat 'em or join 'em, kill 'em? There's no way Altria will be manufacturing things like Sigelei mods or Crown tanks.

What has surprised me is that big tobacco hasn't entered the e-liquid business. Maybe they recognize that there would be a lack of trust, but if they could make juice that tastes like their real products, they'd have something there. Plus, their juice could be sold along side their real packs and cartons of analogs, the way dip and SNUS are sold.

Finally, the reason we're staring down the barrel of the FDA is that as an industry, we've done a poor job of policing ourselves. There were and are bad operators who did not willingly correct their diketone issues, poorly made coils that come from China with no QC whatsoever, vendors that take forever to ship (if they ever do so at all), and no recourse when you buy something that doesn't work. Now I'm no Ralph Nader, not by a long shot. But as long as it's all about making hay when the sun is shining, we're setting ourselves up for the FDA plus all the politicians and media who are in bliss in their ignorance.

Smoking is bad, haven't you heard?! But imagine the loss of tax revenue without it, not to mention the role of big pharm (they have a hot new monoclonal antibody just coming out now for non small-cell lung ca).

 

[Kent C]

There's no way Altria will be manufacturing things like Sigelei mods or Crown tanks.

I'm not so sure. "Joe Murillo of Altria/NuMark made the same case based on competition: when customers switch we want to be there. These comments reveal the essential truth not yet grasped in public health… competition leaves the tobacco companies with no choice but to be in this market either defensively or on the offensive …and this is a good thing. To the extent they produce second-rate products or fail to innovate they will lose out (or fail to gain) relative to other tobacco companies or non-tobacco vapour companies – competition will drive them to innovate and improve the products or become losers."

And it was Reynolds that called for a ban on 'open systems" - although their 'eGo/Vuse can be 'opened' :- )

 

[AndriaD]

Smoking is bad, haven't you heard?! But imagine the loss of tax revenue without it, not to mention the role of big pharm (they have a hot new monoclonal antibody just coming out now for non small-cell lung ca).

But the type of lung cancer that smokers develop is nearly always "small-cell."

Andria

 

[herb]

Here's a pic of mine right next to a vv3/T3S, so you can see the size -- just *slightly* bigger than a real cigarette --

View attachment 507808
Andria

Ahh Haa , so that is the "eroll" thingee , thanks for the pic , no large teeth either , don't like large teeth , very scary .

 

[Tortus]

Except for DIYers. The only persistent sales there are nicotine, flavors, and PG/VG -- all much cheaper than finished ejuice.

Andria

Yea I just did the math and the $150 I just spent on DIY supplies is equal to $10,400 in premium juice(bought 30ml at a time). That's gotta be kind of tough to track from an outside perspective.

Over the past year I may have spent $100 on DIY supplies. I'm just now finishing up the first $18 bottle of 100mg nicotine I bought and have 400ml of homemade juice in my cabinet that I haven't touched yet, not counting the hundreds I already went through.

I'm all for supporting the industry but, the prices some of these companies charge are really out there. Especially considering they buy in bulk so it's costing them pennies to make a 30ml bottle.

 

[mostlyclassics]

Finally, the reason we're staring down the barrel of the FDA is that as an industry, we've done a poor job of policing ourselves. There were and are bad operators who did not willingly correct their diketone issues, poorly made coils that come from China with no QC whatsoever, vendors that take forever to ship (if they ever do so at all), and no recourse when you buy something that doesn't work.

I have a totally different take on the history of vaping. It is precisely because of the operation of a free, unfettered market, without any governmental controls, that we've had such technological progress in vaping devices and improved overall quality of e-juices.

While there are some consumers who keep putting quarters in the broken soft-drink dispenser hoping for a better outcome with the next quarter, most people won't buy bad junk a second time. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" is the buying strategy of most consumers. And lots of would-be manufacturers of junk devices and bad e-liquids have fallen by the wayside. Why are they no longer in business? Because we, the consumers, won't buy garbage a second time and we tell all our vaping buddies about the bad experiences here on ECF and elsewhere.

Peruse old threads here from a few years ago, and you'll see what I mean. Heck, look at the discussion of eRolls in this very thread!

The free-market mechanism isn't perfect. There's a bit of lag-time between release of a doggy product or e-juice and the market's rejection of same. The same is true for bad and/or dishonest vendors. But eventually the word goes around, and — poof! — those particular bad guys are gone.

If you want safety, reliability, etc., then you deserve the FDA banning 99.9% of vaping products.

If you want total and absolute safety, reliability, etc., then a total and absolute ban of all vaping products is the way to go for you. But I sure don't want to follow you!

 

[Kent C]

I have a totally different take on the history of vaping. It is precisely because of the operation of a free, unfettered market, without any governmental controls, that we've had such technological progress in vaping devices and improved overall quality of e-juices.

TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule


FDA's leaked guidance for PMTAs confirm deeming reg would ban >99.9% of nicotine vapor products

 

[Katya]

Finally, the reason we're staring down the barrel of the FDA is that as an industry, we've done a poor job of policing ourselves.

WRONG!

It is precisely because of the operation of a free, unfettered market, without any governmental controls, that we've had such technological progress in vaping devices and improved overall quality of e-juices.

RIGHT!

 

[AndriaD]

I have a totally different take on the history of vaping. It is precisely because of the operation of a free, unfettered market, without any governmental controls, that we've had such technological progress in vaping devices and improved overall quality of e-juices.

While there are some consumers who keep putting quarters in the broken soft-drink dispenser hoping for a better outcome with the next quarter, most people won't buy bad junk a second time. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" is the buying strategy of most consumers. And lots of would-be manufacturers of junk devices and bad e-liquids have fallen by the wayside. Why are they no longer in business? Because we, the consumers, won't buy garbage a second time and we tell all our vaping buddies about the bad experiences here on ECF and elsewhere.

Peruse old threads here from a few years ago, and you'll see what I mean. Heck, look at the discussion of eRolls in this very thread!

The free-market mechanism isn't perfect. There's a bit of lag-time between release of a doggy product or e-juice and the market's rejection of same. The same is true for bad and/or dishonest vendors. But eventually the word goes around, and — poof! — those particular bad guys are gone.

If you want safety, reliability, etc., then you deserve the FDA banning 99.9% of vaping products.

If you want total and absolute safety, reliability, etc., then a total and absolute ban of all vaping products is the way to go for you. But I sure don't want to follow you!

Totally agree with all that. The internet is a smart consumer's best friend.

And that last thing... anyone who wants total safely needs to just live in a closet. That's the way to live forever -- live in a sealed, sterile bubble. You might not live literally forever... but it sure will feel like it.

I surely wish all those wanting total safety would banish themselves to closets and stop bothering the rest of us with their irrational demands.

Andria